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The Elite Master’s Degrees That Don’t Pay Off

30 points by yarapavan 5y ago

underseacables 5y ago
What counts as an elite masters degree? Perhaps the descriptor should be those that offer immediate compensation benefits.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  TFA seems to use "a degree from an elite university"
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Elite university. I think education at that level is mostly to form connections and relations within the field. If you are just after education, there would be a lot of alternatives, especially today when the logistics of knowledge are comparably cheap. There aren't really elite institutions in my country, but my masters was nearly free.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  > Recent film program graduates of Columbia University who took out federal student loans had a median debt of $181,000. > Yet two years after earning their master’s degrees, half of the borrowers were making less than $30,000 a year. "elite masters degree" - lol. (I think the article is confusing undergrad and grad school fees, since it's hard to believe the typical 2-year film master's degree could cost that much.) Berklee College of Music (Boston) undergrad costs about the same, with similar earnings. And you have to carry around an instrument to all your gigs. https://www.berklee.edu/ https://www.berklee.edu/ The worst I've heard is music production grads. Most of the recording studios closed after streaming started (label revenue is down 90%), and some unpaid interns work 5 years for free, before getting a job at 7-11, etc. Actually some of the programs mentioned in the article, like family therapy, are lucrative if your credentials allow you to open your own office in California since there's a shortage. But that requires ambition. (Banks will loan money to newly-graduated health professionals.)
v0x 5y ago
https://archive.is/qwuZS https://archive.is/qwuZS
- nousermane 5y ago
  What's that? It opens a page saying "One more step Please complete the security check to access"
haltingproblem 5y ago
I want to weep at the list of programs in the article: - Journalism - Fine Arts in Film, Theater and Media Studies - Speech pathology A masters degree can run 300k at these top institutions. We have laws against usury, lemon laws, price gouging, ponzi schemes, securities regulations.....etc. How can a society justify allowing young folks spending 300k of money they don't have to get a degree in fine arts?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- anonuser123456 5y ago
  It's fine we let them spend whatever they want. What's not fine is that when it is clear they aren't able to pay it off, we don't let a bankruptcy court discharge the debt like all other unsecured debt. Let lenders take risk, and when that risk clearly goes bust... wipe it out.
  - ifjjgidjdjd 5y ago
    > Let lenders take risk This. Universities should be required to eat a certain percentage of any loan that defaults, so that they always have skin in the game. A similar rule could have prevented the subprime mortgage crisis. Sure, let lenders sell house loans to higher risk customers, but make lenders themselves responsible for some portion of any bad loan, and don't let them use shell companies or bankruptcy-in-name-only shenanigans to escape their responsibility, either.
  - pkaye 5y ago
    Split the risk 50/50 between lenders and the university. Then every young adult can declare bankruptcy right after graduating and have a fresh clean start with no debt.
  - wkyle 5y ago
    That may sound like an easy fix, but easing the ability to discharge student loans in bankruptcy court would necessarily require higher interest rates on new loans (sans increased subsidization of student loans). That may be a palatable tradeoff, but I suspect most students would prefer cheap borrowing.
ivan1783 5y ago
A society doesn't just need productive, value adding jobs which fill 100% of the working generations time. A society also needs fine arts, theatre, film because its part of being human. If we were all corporate wage slaves the world would be a terrible place to exist. The system as we have it in Europe is the perfect balance of this, you pay nothing or very little for your higher education and in return you can explore different areas which interest you without having this lingering thought of bankruptcy or financial ruin always in your head. I don't understand the US system at all, it is 100% geared toward profit and leaves no room for the creative, is that really a nice system to live in?
- themagicalyang 5y ago
  US is the prime example of a capitalist ecosystem. I would argue that this is what made US the superpower it is today. So to do away with it goes against everyone who enjoys the benefits of the system in US. Those who enjoy the benefits are also those in power.
  - kaonashi 5y ago
    The US gained its advantage during the 40s-70s, when the government sector was a much larger percentage of the economy. We've been coasting on the efforts of that period and are now losing ground to countries that have their act together.
    - opo 5y ago
      >...The US gained its advantage during the 40s-70s, when the government sector was a much larger percentage of the economy. The government sector is larger now than pretty much anytime since the end of WW II. The US gained its advantage when it was the only industrialized country that wasn't devastated by WW II. https://taxfoundation.org/short-history-government-taxing-and-spending-united-states/ https://taxfoundation.org/short-history-government-taxing-an...
      - kaonashi 5y ago
serg_chernata 5y ago
I received my MBA in IT from WGU and couldn't be happier. It cost me a total of $8,000 and was one of the best things I have ever done for my education. This MBA cost me a fraction of what my BS did.
IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
https://archive.is/4lQkO https://archive.is/4lQkO

30 points by yarapavan 5y ago

What counts as an elite masters degree? Perhaps the descriptor should be those that offer immediate compensation benefits.

aidenn0 5y ago
TFA seems to use "a degree from an elite university"
raxxorrax 5y ago
Elite university. I think education at that level is mostly to form connections and relations within the field. If you are just after education, there would be a lot of alternatives, especially today when the logistics of knowledge are comparably cheap. There aren't really elite institutions in my country, but my masters was nearly free.
redis_mlc 5y ago
> Recent film program graduates of Columbia University who took out federal student loans had a median debt of $181,000. > Yet two years after earning their master’s degrees, half of the borrowers were making less than $30,000 a year. "elite masters degree" - lol. (I think the article is confusing undergrad and grad school fees, since it's hard to believe the typical 2-year film master's degree could cost that much.) Berklee College of Music (Boston) undergrad costs about the same, with similar earnings. And you have to carry around an instrument to all your gigs. https://www.berklee.edu/ https://www.berklee.edu/ The worst I've heard is music production grads. Most of the recording studios closed after streaming started (label revenue is down 90%), and some unpaid interns work 5 years for free, before getting a job at 7-11, etc. Actually some of the programs mentioned in the article, like family therapy, are lucrative if your credentials allow you to open your own office in California since there's a shortage. But that requires ambition. (Banks will loan money to newly-graduated health professionals.)

v0x 5y ago

https://archive.is/qwuZS https://archive.is/qwuZS

nousermane 5y ago
What's that? It opens a page saying "One more step Please complete the security check to access"

haltingproblem 5y ago

I want to weep at the list of programs in the article: - Journalism - Fine Arts in Film, Theater and Media Studies - Speech pathology A masters degree can run 300k at these top institutions. We have laws against usury, lemon laws, price gouging, ponzi schemes, securities regulations.....etc. How can a society justify allowing young folks spending 300k of money they don't have to get a degree in fine arts?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
anonuser123456 5y ago
It's fine we let them spend whatever they want. What's not fine is that when it is clear they aren't able to pay it off, we don't let a bankruptcy court discharge the debt like all other unsecured debt. Let lenders take risk, and when that risk clearly goes bust... wipe it out.
- ifjjgidjdjd 5y ago
  > Let lenders take risk This. Universities should be required to eat a certain percentage of any loan that defaults, so that they always have skin in the game. A similar rule could have prevented the subprime mortgage crisis. Sure, let lenders sell house loans to higher risk customers, but make lenders themselves responsible for some portion of any bad loan, and don't let them use shell companies or bankruptcy-in-name-only shenanigans to escape their responsibility, either.
- pkaye 5y ago
  Split the risk 50/50 between lenders and the university. Then every young adult can declare bankruptcy right after graduating and have a fresh clean start with no debt.
- wkyle 5y ago
  That may sound like an easy fix, but easing the ability to discharge student loans in bankruptcy court would necessarily require higher interest rates on new loans (sans increased subsidization of student loans). That may be a palatable tradeoff, but I suspect most students would prefer cheap borrowing.

ivan1783 5y ago

A society doesn't just need productive, value adding jobs which fill 100% of the working generations time. A society also needs fine arts, theatre, film because its part of being human. If we were all corporate wage slaves the world would be a terrible place to exist. The system as we have it in Europe is the perfect balance of this, you pay nothing or very little for your higher education and in return you can explore different areas which interest you without having this lingering thought of bankruptcy or financial ruin always in your head. I don't understand the US system at all, it is 100% geared toward profit and leaves no room for the creative, is that really a nice system to live in?

themagicalyang 5y ago
US is the prime example of a capitalist ecosystem. I would argue that this is what made US the superpower it is today. So to do away with it goes against everyone who enjoys the benefits of the system in US. Those who enjoy the benefits are also those in power.
- kaonashi 5y ago
  The US gained its advantage during the 40s-70s, when the government sector was a much larger percentage of the economy. We've been coasting on the efforts of that period and are now losing ground to countries that have their act together.
  - opo 5y ago
    >...The US gained its advantage during the 40s-70s, when the government sector was a much larger percentage of the economy. The government sector is larger now than pretty much anytime since the end of WW II. The US gained its advantage when it was the only industrialized country that wasn't devastated by WW II. https://taxfoundation.org/short-history-government-taxing-and-spending-united-states/ https://taxfoundation.org/short-history-government-taxing-an...
    - kaonashi 5y ago

serg_chernata 5y ago

I received my MBA in IT from WGU and couldn't be happier. It cost me a total of $8,000 and was one of the best things I have ever done for my education. This MBA cost me a fraction of what my BS did.

IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago

https://archive.is/4lQkO https://archive.is/4lQkO