5 ms·

I guess this is probably the story that gets repeated in places like HN which I agree is common. However, if you ever talk to uber drivers or your waiters they

I guess this is probably the story that gets repeated in places like HN which I agree is common. However, if you ever talk to uber drivers or your waiters they will complain about how expensive California is. Or even people at parties who are in between jobs and thinking of moving to where they grew up. I guess in real life I just hear more people talk about the general cost of living argument than a than the specific anti-tech one.

0x0nyandesu 5y ago
If anything it's easier for tech people to ignore the high costs of living.
almost_usual 5y ago
> who are in between jobs and thinking of moving to where they grew up I hear the opposite, people cannot afford where they grew up. Most people from the Bay Area aren’t working high paying tech jobs. > I guess in real life I just hear more people talk about the general cost of living argument than a than the specific anti-tech one. Anti-tech sentiment peaked in the early 2010s. Tech buses stopped being vandalized and the “die techie scum” thing mostly went away after 2015.
- solveit 5y ago
  Depends where you're looking. If you look online, anti-tech sentiment has never been stronger. These are of course, very different groups of people we're talking about.
- thebradbain 5y ago
  > Anti-tech sentiment peaked in the early 2010s. Tech buses stopped being vandalized and the “die techie scum” thing mostly went away after 2015. While we're comparing anecdotal evidence, I live in Los Angeles and count among my peers many who work in the Hollywood/Media industry. I can assure you the general sentiment among them toward Big Tech is overwhelmingly negative. I work in tech (albeit not a large company) and even I tend to agree.
  - saltcured 5y ago
    I am guessing that the previous post is about the S.F. Bay Area anti-tech backlash peaking in early 2010s. I also think that the people who were expressing that backlash would not distinguish so much between Big Tech and Hollywood/Media. I think the peak after 2010 has more to do with economic stress following 2008 and the glaring wealth inequality.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    A lot of this negative big tech sentiment isn’t backed by anything rational, it’s the same middle school or high school mentality of beating up nerds.
    - ramphastidae 5y ago
      I believe the primary reason for anti-tech sentiment in SF is gentrification: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification_of_San_Francisco https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification_of_San_Franci...
    - sidlls 5y ago
      No, it's not. First, most "big tech" aren't nerds in the sense you mean, and they act more like the "cool kids" bullies in those movies than nerds. Second, the negative sentiment has more to do with wealth inequality and all that brings than any such petty rivalry as you describe. Also to be quite honest software engineers aren't as smart or nerdy as they think they are in general. Very arrogant and egotistical, though, for sure.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- handmodel 5y ago
  To clarify I am saying that some people on here are saying that California is anti-business/anti-tech and that is why people are moving out. I am saying the vast majority of people moving out of CA are just doing so because general cost of living isn't a great deal. And almost by definition, if you move to California from somewhere else then "home" would be lower cost of living. Only exceptions are if you grew up in NYC, Boston, DC or a few other cities.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > And almost by definition, if you move to California from somewhere else then "home" would be lower cost of living. Only exceptions are if you grew up in NYC, Boston, DC or a few other cities. Lots of California is cheaper than a lot more than just the few most expensive cities. California is not just the central cities of the Bag Area. Also, on a state level, HI has a higher cost of living than CA.
    - handmodel 5y ago
      California is the third highest cost of living state: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-expensive-states-to-live-in https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-expens... Everyone knows that California is not just LA and SF. But also Florida isn't just Tampa/Miami and Arizona isn't just Phoenix. The big cities in CA are more expensive than the big cities in other states. The rural areas in CA are more expensive than the rural areas in other states. Pointing out that the rural areas in CA are cheaper than the cities in other states is not compelling. And for the record, Hawaii is seeing net out-migration too. At least its excuse for low cost of living is the fact that its an island that has to ship everything in.
      - strikhedonia 5y ago
        Your link doesn’t support your argument. California’s COL index will be dominated by the fact that it’s one of the nations most urban states, with two of the largest and wealthiest metro areas. Indeed, my experience is that there are parts of CA that aren’t significantly more expensive than my Midwestern home state.
malshe 5y ago
I live in Texas and I whenever I go to California, I find it super expensive too! I am a unifier site professor and my salary is not very different from the professors in CA (State university salaries are public). I don’t know what is keeping those professors there.
- Ar-Curunir 5y ago
  Better weather, better universities, slightly better politics, and more
- rpearl 5y ago
  This very much disagrees with you: https://www.aaup.org/sites/default/files/AAUP-2021-SurveyAppendices.pdf https://www.aaup.org/sites/default/files/AAUP-2021-SurveyApp... A sampling of average overall salaries for professors: - UC Berkeley (ie bay area): $214,300 - UCLA: $234,200 - UT San Antonio: $130,900 - UT Dallas: $169,500 So an average Berkeley professor makes more than half again as much as an average UT San Antonio professor. And 25% more than UT Dallas.
  - unishark 5y ago
    I'd suspect CA pays somewhat better, though it'd be countered to a degree by the high number of academics preferring to live in CA. But either way, Berkeley and UCLA versus UTSA and UTD? Are the latter two even ranked in the top 100? Berkeley has the 2nd most nobel prize winners in the US behind Harvard. UCLA has a solid number too.
    - malshe 5y ago
      I agree, it is a non starter. In any case I was not comparing average TX university salaries to just two universities in CA
  - vel0city 5y ago
    You're forgetting income taxes and then add CoL on top of that. Sure you're making gross more but that $214k turns to ~$140k after taxes while that Texas $169k turns into ~$126k. So closer to a difference of about $14k. Then think that housing is way cheaper, gas is almost half the price, electricity can easily be had for 7c/kWh in DFW, etc. I just filled up this afternoon for $2.49/gal, what does gas cost out there these days, $4.60/gal? In the end I imagine the prof at UTD could easily have more cash at the end of the month than the prof at UC Berkeley. UTSA is such a small school it really shouldn't even be compared to UC Berkeley or UCLA.

0x0nyandesu 5y ago

If anything it's easier for tech people to ignore the high costs of living.

almost_usual 5y ago

> who are in between jobs and thinking of moving to where they grew up I hear the opposite, people cannot afford where they grew up. Most people from the Bay Area aren’t working high paying tech jobs. > I guess in real life I just hear more people talk about the general cost of living argument than a than the specific anti-tech one. Anti-tech sentiment peaked in the early 2010s. Tech buses stopped being vandalized and the “die techie scum” thing mostly went away after 2015.

solveit 5y ago
Depends where you're looking. If you look online, anti-tech sentiment has never been stronger. These are of course, very different groups of people we're talking about.
thebradbain 5y ago
> Anti-tech sentiment peaked in the early 2010s. Tech buses stopped being vandalized and the “die techie scum” thing mostly went away after 2015. While we're comparing anecdotal evidence, I live in Los Angeles and count among my peers many who work in the Hollywood/Media industry. I can assure you the general sentiment among them toward Big Tech is overwhelmingly negative. I work in tech (albeit not a large company) and even I tend to agree.
- saltcured 5y ago
  I am guessing that the previous post is about the S.F. Bay Area anti-tech backlash peaking in early 2010s. I also think that the people who were expressing that backlash would not distinguish so much between Big Tech and Hollywood/Media. I think the peak after 2010 has more to do with economic stress following 2008 and the glaring wealth inequality.
- xwdv 5y ago
  A lot of this negative big tech sentiment isn’t backed by anything rational, it’s the same middle school or high school mentality of beating up nerds.
  - ramphastidae 5y ago
    I believe the primary reason for anti-tech sentiment in SF is gentrification: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification_of_San_Francisco https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification_of_San_Franci...
  - sidlls 5y ago
    No, it's not. First, most "big tech" aren't nerds in the sense you mean, and they act more like the "cool kids" bullies in those movies than nerds. Second, the negative sentiment has more to do with wealth inequality and all that brings than any such petty rivalry as you describe. Also to be quite honest software engineers aren't as smart or nerdy as they think they are in general. Very arrogant and egotistical, though, for sure.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
handmodel 5y ago
To clarify I am saying that some people on here are saying that California is anti-business/anti-tech and that is why people are moving out. I am saying the vast majority of people moving out of CA are just doing so because general cost of living isn't a great deal. And almost by definition, if you move to California from somewhere else then "home" would be lower cost of living. Only exceptions are if you grew up in NYC, Boston, DC or a few other cities.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > And almost by definition, if you move to California from somewhere else then "home" would be lower cost of living. Only exceptions are if you grew up in NYC, Boston, DC or a few other cities. Lots of California is cheaper than a lot more than just the few most expensive cities. California is not just the central cities of the Bag Area. Also, on a state level, HI has a higher cost of living than CA.
  - handmodel 5y ago
    California is the third highest cost of living state: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-expensive-states-to-live-in https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-expens... Everyone knows that California is not just LA and SF. But also Florida isn't just Tampa/Miami and Arizona isn't just Phoenix. The big cities in CA are more expensive than the big cities in other states. The rural areas in CA are more expensive than the rural areas in other states. Pointing out that the rural areas in CA are cheaper than the cities in other states is not compelling. And for the record, Hawaii is seeing net out-migration too. At least its excuse for low cost of living is the fact that its an island that has to ship everything in.
    - strikhedonia 5y ago
      Your link doesn’t support your argument. California’s COL index will be dominated by the fact that it’s one of the nations most urban states, with two of the largest and wealthiest metro areas. Indeed, my experience is that there are parts of CA that aren’t significantly more expensive than my Midwestern home state.

malshe 5y ago

I live in Texas and I whenever I go to California, I find it super expensive too! I am a unifier site professor and my salary is not very different from the professors in CA (State university salaries are public). I don’t know what is keeping those professors there.

Ar-Curunir 5y ago
Better weather, better universities, slightly better politics, and more
rpearl 5y ago
This very much disagrees with you: https://www.aaup.org/sites/default/files/AAUP-2021-SurveyAppendices.pdf https://www.aaup.org/sites/default/files/AAUP-2021-SurveyApp... A sampling of average overall salaries for professors: - UC Berkeley (ie bay area): $214,300 - UCLA: $234,200 - UT San Antonio: $130,900 - UT Dallas: $169,500 So an average Berkeley professor makes more than half again as much as an average UT San Antonio professor. And 25% more than UT Dallas.
- unishark 5y ago
  I'd suspect CA pays somewhat better, though it'd be countered to a degree by the high number of academics preferring to live in CA. But either way, Berkeley and UCLA versus UTSA and UTD? Are the latter two even ranked in the top 100? Berkeley has the 2nd most nobel prize winners in the US behind Harvard. UCLA has a solid number too.
  - malshe 5y ago
    I agree, it is a non starter. In any case I was not comparing average TX university salaries to just two universities in CA
- vel0city 5y ago
  You're forgetting income taxes and then add CoL on top of that. Sure you're making gross more but that $214k turns to ~$140k after taxes while that Texas $169k turns into ~$126k. So closer to a difference of about $14k. Then think that housing is way cheaper, gas is almost half the price, electricity can easily be had for 7c/kWh in DFW, etc. I just filled up this afternoon for $2.49/gal, what does gas cost out there these days, $4.60/gal? In the end I imagine the prof at UTD could easily have more cash at the end of the month than the prof at UC Berkeley. UTSA is such a small school it really shouldn't even be compared to UC Berkeley or UCLA.