5 ms·

Suburban and housing costs in California are very high by national standards. Is your argument that the people who are moving out of California overwhelmingly n

Suburban and housing costs in California are very high by national standards. Is your argument that the people who are moving out of California overwhelmingly non-native Californians?

Retric 5y ago
I clarified, I am saying the net migration from California is hardly unusual as a percentage of the population. However, the magnitude of exodus is a function of both the size of the state and the number of people who recently moved to California. It’s not that an overwhelming percentage of people leaving recently moved in, but they do represent a larger percentage of people moving out which is normal.
tomc1985 5y ago
Once you are out of the main coastal communities housing prices drop dramatically. I have friends in Eureka renting a gigantic house for like $1200/mo, and I saw studio apartments in the city center in the order of $750/mo. The SoCal equivalents would be $3500/mo-plus and $1500/mo-plus, respectively.
- quesera 5y ago
  Right but this is just by virtue of CA being a big, long, state where the northern reaches are far away from the economically active parts. Eureka is charming enough, but it has no specific attractive force over any other (very) small coastal city where the next-larger city is many hours' drive away. Compare to Crescent City, or southern coastal Oregon. So yes, you're still in California up there, and housing is less expensive. But there are no jobs (WFH tide floats all boats), and it isn't the California that most people are looking for. See also: Bakersfield.
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    Bakersfield at least has agriculture and oil extraction industries. But the heat and the air quality make it an unattractive place to live.
  - not2b 5y ago
    Median income in Eureka is well below the national median income. It's a beautiful area, very mild weather, old growth redwoods nearby, and the Eureka/Arcata/Fortuna area has universities, some good restaurants, and top notch breweries. But there's almost no work. Illegal cannabis growing used to be really big in that area, and now legal cannabis is significant, but pay is really low. Sure beats Crescent City though.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Susanville is a small town with a thriving industry in corrections, so lots of jobs if you don’t mind being a prison guard. It’s also an hour or so out of Reno, and has cheap housing. It’s also nice nature wise, and if you head north you are warned there are no gas stations for a hundred miles or so.
- pram 5y ago
  Oh yeah plenty of cheap places in El Centro and around the Salton Sea.
- fpgaminer 5y ago
  Absolutely true; you can easily double your bang for buck in California housing by moving outside of major areas. And those less populated areas are still _really_ nice. But for every buck you save, you lose an hour of your life to our terrible transportation infrastructure. Twice the house, four times the drive. It's why the housing price equation is as unbalanced as it is here.
- ardit33 5y ago
  So Eureka Ca, which is in the middle of nowhere costs about the same as the suburbs of Raleigh NC. Raleigh has a mid level international airport with direct flights to Europe and other continents, has many other cities and great schools in it, and nearby (NC State, UNC Chapel Hill, Duke, etc), (the whole research triangle), etc... with plenty of job opportunities. What does Eureka have (appart for nice nature)? How much does one has to drive to go to an airport that can fly directly to Europe or Asia? If your local business closed, how long and how much would you have to drive to find another job? Commanding a mid-level metro prices, without the economy vibrancy of one, is sheer overpricing. And maybe that's why so many locals are leaving. (the influx is usually immigrants, which are more willing to put up with crappier conditions).
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    I chose Eureka because I know people there and have direct experience with the town, even if it is an extreme example. If I knew folks and the housing situation in Stockton, or Modesto, or Bakersfield, or even Temecula, or any of those other armpit Central-Valley cities, I would have used them as an example. And you're right, maybe Raleigh is a better choice. Or maybe Minneapolis. Or perhaps Boise, or any number of other mid-size capitol cities. But they aren't California.
    - kbenson 5y ago
      I think the point is that we should compare major metropolitan centers/coastal communities in CA to major metropolitan centers and coastal communities in other states. That there are places relatively cheaper in CA is not in question, but those cheaper places are likely similar to even cheaper places in other states. The opportunities available in Eureka are not the same ones available in the Bay Area (although it's likely gotten better). I suspect they don't even stack up to Raleigh favorably. Eureka is much smaller than many bay area cities, and more importantly, is isolated, so it feels much smaller than even the ones that it is similarly sized to, as once you leave Eureka, you're not immediately entering another city of the same or larger size.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
- handmodel 5y ago
  But moving to rural Nevada, rural Oregon, or rural Arizona is much cheaper than your example of a very cheap city in California. Even moving to Eugene, Reno, or Flagstaff would be cheaper total living expenses.
- trainsplanes 5y ago
  Eureka is a moderate sized town by most standards, and you can get cheaper places in similarly sized towns or larger small cities throughout the US. Probably get apartments much bigger than a studio, too.
- hollandheese 5y ago
  > I have friends in Eureka renting a gigantic house for like $1200/mo They must have started renting that house at least 10 years ago and had a landlord who never rose the price. Because rental prices for large houses are $2000+ (Eureka/Arcata) or $1800+ (McKinnleyville) now.
panarky 5y ago
High prices = strong demand
- unishark 5y ago
  Unless it's a temporary trend driven by speculators. Looking at CA house prices is like looking at FAANG stock. People will keep jumping in to join the ride until it finally crashes.

Suburban and housing costs in California are very high by national standards. Is your argument that the people who are moving out of California overwhelmingly non-native Californians?

Retric 5y ago

I clarified, I am saying the net migration from California is hardly unusual as a percentage of the population. However, the magnitude of exodus is a function of both the size of the state and the number of people who recently moved to California. It’s not that an overwhelming percentage of people leaving recently moved in, but they do represent a larger percentage of people moving out which is normal.

tomc1985 5y ago

Once you are out of the main coastal communities housing prices drop dramatically. I have friends in Eureka renting a gigantic house for like $1200/mo, and I saw studio apartments in the city center in the order of $750/mo. The SoCal equivalents would be $3500/mo-plus and $1500/mo-plus, respectively.

quesera 5y ago
Right but this is just by virtue of CA being a big, long, state where the northern reaches are far away from the economically active parts. Eureka is charming enough, but it has no specific attractive force over any other (very) small coastal city where the next-larger city is many hours' drive away. Compare to Crescent City, or southern coastal Oregon. So yes, you're still in California up there, and housing is less expensive. But there are no jobs (WFH tide floats all boats), and it isn't the California that most people are looking for. See also: Bakersfield.
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Bakersfield at least has agriculture and oil extraction industries. But the heat and the air quality make it an unattractive place to live.
- not2b 5y ago
  Median income in Eureka is well below the national median income. It's a beautiful area, very mild weather, old growth redwoods nearby, and the Eureka/Arcata/Fortuna area has universities, some good restaurants, and top notch breweries. But there's almost no work. Illegal cannabis growing used to be really big in that area, and now legal cannabis is significant, but pay is really low. Sure beats Crescent City though.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Susanville is a small town with a thriving industry in corrections, so lots of jobs if you don’t mind being a prison guard. It’s also an hour or so out of Reno, and has cheap housing. It’s also nice nature wise, and if you head north you are warned there are no gas stations for a hundred miles or so.
pram 5y ago
Oh yeah plenty of cheap places in El Centro and around the Salton Sea.
fpgaminer 5y ago
Absolutely true; you can easily double your bang for buck in California housing by moving outside of major areas. And those less populated areas are still _really_ nice. But for every buck you save, you lose an hour of your life to our terrible transportation infrastructure. Twice the house, four times the drive. It's why the housing price equation is as unbalanced as it is here.
ardit33 5y ago
So Eureka Ca, which is in the middle of nowhere costs about the same as the suburbs of Raleigh NC. Raleigh has a mid level international airport with direct flights to Europe and other continents, has many other cities and great schools in it, and nearby (NC State, UNC Chapel Hill, Duke, etc), (the whole research triangle), etc... with plenty of job opportunities. What does Eureka have (appart for nice nature)? How much does one has to drive to go to an airport that can fly directly to Europe or Asia? If your local business closed, how long and how much would you have to drive to find another job? Commanding a mid-level metro prices, without the economy vibrancy of one, is sheer overpricing. And maybe that's why so many locals are leaving. (the influx is usually immigrants, which are more willing to put up with crappier conditions).
- tomc1985 5y ago
  I chose Eureka because I know people there and have direct experience with the town, even if it is an extreme example. If I knew folks and the housing situation in Stockton, or Modesto, or Bakersfield, or even Temecula, or any of those other armpit Central-Valley cities, I would have used them as an example. And you're right, maybe Raleigh is a better choice. Or maybe Minneapolis. Or perhaps Boise, or any number of other mid-size capitol cities. But they aren't California.
  - kbenson 5y ago
    I think the point is that we should compare major metropolitan centers/coastal communities in CA to major metropolitan centers and coastal communities in other states. That there are places relatively cheaper in CA is not in question, but those cheaper places are likely similar to even cheaper places in other states. The opportunities available in Eureka are not the same ones available in the Bay Area (although it's likely gotten better). I suspect they don't even stack up to Raleigh favorably. Eureka is much smaller than many bay area cities, and more importantly, is isolated, so it feels much smaller than even the ones that it is similarly sized to, as once you leave Eureka, you're not immediately entering another city of the same or larger size.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
handmodel 5y ago
But moving to rural Nevada, rural Oregon, or rural Arizona is much cheaper than your example of a very cheap city in California. Even moving to Eugene, Reno, or Flagstaff would be cheaper total living expenses.
trainsplanes 5y ago
Eureka is a moderate sized town by most standards, and you can get cheaper places in similarly sized towns or larger small cities throughout the US. Probably get apartments much bigger than a studio, too.
hollandheese 5y ago
> I have friends in Eureka renting a gigantic house for like $1200/mo They must have started renting that house at least 10 years ago and had a landlord who never rose the price. Because rental prices for large houses are $2000+ (Eureka/Arcata) or $1800+ (McKinnleyville) now.

panarky 5y ago

High prices = strong demand

unishark 5y ago
Unless it's a temporary trend driven by speculators. Looking at CA house prices is like looking at FAANG stock. People will keep jumping in to join the ride until it finally crashes.