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I'm pretty sure the significance of a proposed bill is rather different from the EU than in typical democratic countries like say the UK, US or Canada. In most

by makomk 5y ago

I'm pretty sure the significance of a proposed bill is rather different from the EU than in typical democratic countries like say the UK, US or Canada. In most democracies any elected politician can propose a bill, and so they often do purely as a form of showboating to the electorate even if there's no chance it'll get passed. Within the EU, only the small, powerful and very much non-elected European Commission can propose new laws, and they don't generally have anyone to showboat to - as a general rule, I think if they propose something it's done with the intention of it becoming law and it usually does unless there's some actual, strong, substantial objection to it from some other group with the power to stop it.

estaseuropano 5y ago
The commission proposes, then both council (= national governments) and the directly elected European parliament each develop their own position on this basis. Each of those two positions is already a compromise between the different national and political groups. The three organizations then meet in trilogue and hammer out compromises ('trilogue') with the commission facilitating but ultimately having little say on the outcome, except to block where something violates the EU treaties. Ultimately both Parliament and council (at minister level) have to vote and agree before it becomes law. So indeed lots still to be done and this is likely an attempt to already offer a compromise and will be reasoned (e.g. exempting these might be a small sacrifice if it gets a compromise that covers 99.9% of flights) - but given how visible this is it seems unlikely to stay in as Parliament will rally against it. You can also expect some egalitarian and green countries (Sweden, Finland, if the greens fet into government in the coming election even Germany) to already kill this in the council position.
Goety 5y ago
I think this information is something more people should be exposed to.
benhurmarcel 5y ago
> very much non-elected European Commission They are proposed by the elected governments of the member states, and approved by a majority vote from the directly-elected European parliament. It is very misleading to suggest that the Commission is completely unelected, like the British House of Lords is for example (in the "typical democratic UK"). It's not comparable. > some other group with the power to stop it You mean like the directly-elected European parliament, that needs to vote on it?
- native_samples 5y ago
  That's how it works in theory, according to the treaties. In reality the head of the Commission has a lot of power over who the commissioners are and have developed a habit of placing many criteria upon national governments in whom they may appoint. The most obvious example of this is the way Jean-Claude Juncker illegally and secretly rejected candidates many times, against the treaties. This only became public because he bragged about it when telling countries that they would not be allowed to nominate conservative Euroskeptics to Commission jobs. He said: “Nobody knows this, but last time I rejected the candidacies of six of the Commissioners presented to me by national governments”. Note: this is totally illegal by treaty. As normal, nobody cares. The EU violates its own treaties regularly, this is just one more way. This system has now become institutionalized. For example vDL has required that half the commissioners be women and have rejected individual countries proposals, in order to get that. There have been quotas for women in the past too, just less than 50%. In theory this is not possible, in practice it is. As for the European Parliament, it's useless. It doesn't make laws, so elections to it devolve into pantomimes with candidates all explaining that their policy is either to strongly agree with whatever the Commission wants to do, or to just oppose everything. The level of democratic respect it garners was indicated by how it was totally bypassed last time - in theory, the head of the Commission is voted on by the EU Parliament. So what happens: they were given only one candidate on the list to vote for, vDL. A puppet pseudo-Parliament in which parties cannot have any policies, is not a real check on anything. It is a form of makeup covering the uglyness within, nothing more.

by makomk 5y ago

estaseuropano 5y ago

The commission proposes, then both council (= national governments) and the directly elected European parliament each develop their own position on this basis. Each of those two positions is already a compromise between the different national and political groups. The three organizations then meet in trilogue and hammer out compromises ('trilogue') with the commission facilitating but ultimately having little say on the outcome, except to block where something violates the EU treaties. Ultimately both Parliament and council (at minister level) have to vote and agree before it becomes law. So indeed lots still to be done and this is likely an attempt to already offer a compromise and will be reasoned (e.g. exempting these might be a small sacrifice if it gets a compromise that covers 99.9% of flights) - but given how visible this is it seems unlikely to stay in as Parliament will rally against it. You can also expect some egalitarian and green countries (Sweden, Finland, if the greens fet into government in the coming election even Germany) to already kill this in the council position.

Goety 5y ago

I think this information is something more people should be exposed to.

benhurmarcel 5y ago

> very much non-elected European Commission They are proposed by the elected governments of the member states, and approved by a majority vote from the directly-elected European parliament. It is very misleading to suggest that the Commission is completely unelected, like the British House of Lords is for example (in the "typical democratic UK"). It's not comparable. > some other group with the power to stop it You mean like the directly-elected European parliament, that needs to vote on it?

native_samples 5y ago
That's how it works in theory, according to the treaties. In reality the head of the Commission has a lot of power over who the commissioners are and have developed a habit of placing many criteria upon national governments in whom they may appoint. The most obvious example of this is the way Jean-Claude Juncker illegally and secretly rejected candidates many times, against the treaties. This only became public because he bragged about it when telling countries that they would not be allowed to nominate conservative Euroskeptics to Commission jobs. He said: “Nobody knows this, but last time I rejected the candidacies of six of the Commissioners presented to me by national governments”. Note: this is totally illegal by treaty. As normal, nobody cares. The EU violates its own treaties regularly, this is just one more way. This system has now become institutionalized. For example vDL has required that half the commissioners be women and have rejected individual countries proposals, in order to get that. There have been quotas for women in the past too, just less than 50%. In theory this is not possible, in practice it is. As for the European Parliament, it's useless. It doesn't make laws, so elections to it devolve into pantomimes with candidates all explaining that their policy is either to strongly agree with whatever the Commission wants to do, or to just oppose everything. The level of democratic respect it garners was indicated by how it was totally bypassed last time - in theory, the head of the Commission is voted on by the EU Parliament. So what happens: they were given only one candidate on the list to vote for, vDL. A puppet pseudo-Parliament in which parties cannot have any policies, is not a real check on anything. It is a form of makeup covering the uglyness within, nothing more.