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Such proposals usually start with "self-evident" assertion of harm incorrect terminology causes, but is it actually measurable? Did anyone make research while i

Such proposals usually start with "self-evident" assertion of harm incorrect terminology causes, but is it actually measurable? Did anyone make research while isolating influence of such things? Sociology is such a shitshow

LunaSea 5y ago
Nope, it's classic outrage culture and bullying tactic.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Who is outraged and who is bullying in this case? It looks like the industry is being proactive and is pre-empting outrage. Using gendered terminology is unnecessary anyway, to the point where it becomes childish (giggle, boy plug goes into girl socket and you get sparks)
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Male/female terminology cuts through noise and using male/female for plugs translates to probably every language immediately if you are trying to convey what plugs into what. I can see a possibility that it had real utility in communicating concepts across completely, different languages, where using the words socket and plug might have caused confusion and more time spent in translation.
    - senortumnus 5y ago
      Agreed - it’s intuitive to humans, the primary users of tech Plug and socket: less intuitive
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Using gendered terminology is probably not harmful at all. Why should it be? This terminology was understood in almost all colleagues in nearly any languages. Most were men, yes, but that isn't the reason why women are underrepresentated.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  You can call plugs "famale" too: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861597805.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861597805.html technically gender neutral... although I find the double head a bit indecent...
anoncake 5y ago
If this terminology actually causes harm we should see trans people and groups propose such a change, not an industry group looking for a PR opportunity.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  You're saying it should be reactionary, that someone should get angry first. You're also making assumptions about the people pushing for this. Why not pre-empt it and save everyone a lot of headaches? You don't need to be a victim or to be offended to realize a problem and work on a fix. I mean I'm not affected or offended by your comment, yet here I am.
  - anoncake 5y ago
    You actually do, in this case. If using the terms "male" and "female" causes harm, the harm it causes is psychological. You can't really realize it from the outside. There is nothing to pre-empt here: These terms are already used to either they already cause harm or they won't start doing so. Which means there is no reason to effectively guess if they cause harm since you can actually ask someone who you think may be harmed. Solving a problem that doesn't actually exist is just a waste of time and resources. Moreover, it gives people the impression that "wokeness" in general is just pointless virtue signalling.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    I do make assumptions about people pushing this at this point. I don't realize the problem and nobody can explain it. I see this as PR and people falling for it that wait for empty promises about something.
- dmd 5y ago
  They have been, for decades. The response has always been "to succeed this kind of change needs to come from within the industry".
  - anoncake 5y ago
    I believe you -- and I don't actually like the gendered terms myself -- but do you have a source for that?
CJefferson 5y ago
How could you isolate such an effect? I'm sure the problem is linked to society as a whole -- the words only make sense because people relate them to genetalia. People have done research by asking people what they think about such gendered terms, and people in the less represented gender (in whichever situation you are talking about) tend to dislike them.
- cdot2 5y ago
  Which is the less represented gender here?
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    Does that actually matter?
  - CJefferson 5y ago
    I'm guessing women are under-represented in the Professional Audio Manufacturers Alliance. I will admit I don't have evidence of that.
- liaukovv 5y ago
  Maybe less represented gender likes this terminology less because they understand it less(because they are less represented) I'm just saying waving away the need for proving points before taking acion is doing more harm than good
raxxorrax 5y ago
> but is it actually measurable? Of course not. Although this isn't sociology and shouldn't be blamed on the field. Yes, they have these guys, but it is a minority. It is just a silly group of industry partners.

LunaSea 5y ago

Nope, it's classic outrage culture and bullying tactic.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Who is outraged and who is bullying in this case? It looks like the industry is being proactive and is pre-empting outrage. Using gendered terminology is unnecessary anyway, to the point where it becomes childish (giggle, boy plug goes into girl socket and you get sparks)
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Male/female terminology cuts through noise and using male/female for plugs translates to probably every language immediately if you are trying to convey what plugs into what. I can see a possibility that it had real utility in communicating concepts across completely, different languages, where using the words socket and plug might have caused confusion and more time spent in translation.
  - senortumnus 5y ago
    Agreed - it’s intuitive to humans, the primary users of tech Plug and socket: less intuitive
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Using gendered terminology is probably not harmful at all. Why should it be? This terminology was understood in almost all colleagues in nearly any languages. Most were men, yes, but that isn't the reason why women are underrepresentated.
raxxorrax 5y ago
You can call plugs "famale" too: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861597805.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861597805.html technically gender neutral... although I find the double head a bit indecent...

anoncake 5y ago

If this terminology actually causes harm we should see trans people and groups propose such a change, not an industry group looking for a PR opportunity.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
You're saying it should be reactionary, that someone should get angry first. You're also making assumptions about the people pushing for this. Why not pre-empt it and save everyone a lot of headaches? You don't need to be a victim or to be offended to realize a problem and work on a fix. I mean I'm not affected or offended by your comment, yet here I am.
- anoncake 5y ago
  You actually do, in this case. If using the terms "male" and "female" causes harm, the harm it causes is psychological. You can't really realize it from the outside. There is nothing to pre-empt here: These terms are already used to either they already cause harm or they won't start doing so. Which means there is no reason to effectively guess if they cause harm since you can actually ask someone who you think may be harmed. Solving a problem that doesn't actually exist is just a waste of time and resources. Moreover, it gives people the impression that "wokeness" in general is just pointless virtue signalling.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  I do make assumptions about people pushing this at this point. I don't realize the problem and nobody can explain it. I see this as PR and people falling for it that wait for empty promises about something.
dmd 5y ago
They have been, for decades. The response has always been "to succeed this kind of change needs to come from within the industry".
- anoncake 5y ago
  I believe you -- and I don't actually like the gendered terms myself -- but do you have a source for that?

CJefferson 5y ago

How could you isolate such an effect? I'm sure the problem is linked to society as a whole -- the words only make sense because people relate them to genetalia. People have done research by asking people what they think about such gendered terms, and people in the less represented gender (in whichever situation you are talking about) tend to dislike them.

cdot2 5y ago
Which is the less represented gender here?
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  Does that actually matter?
- CJefferson 5y ago
  I'm guessing women are under-represented in the Professional Audio Manufacturers Alliance. I will admit I don't have evidence of that.
liaukovv 5y ago
Maybe less represented gender likes this terminology less because they understand it less(because they are less represented) I'm just saying waving away the need for proving points before taking acion is doing more harm than good

raxxorrax 5y ago

> but is it actually measurable? Of course not. Although this isn't sociology and shouldn't be blamed on the field. Yes, they have these guys, but it is a minority. It is just a silly group of industry partners.