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Apart from multiple opponents, those all seem like fairly minor variations on MMA technique in the sense that defending against the legal MMA attacks naturally

Apart from multiple opponents, those all seem like fairly minor variations on MMA technique in the sense that defending against the legal MMA attacks naturally defends against the illegal ones as well, and similarly the same skills that allow a fighter to land legal attacks would allow them to land illegal ones in a non-sport situation. It seems unlikely an overall inferior MMA fighter could win just by focusing on specific illegal moves. For multiple opponents, I could certainly see that changing the optimal strategy, but it seems like the odds of winning would still mainly be a function of how strong a fighter is one-on-one, since the only hope is to quickly neutralize the additional opponent(s).

roel_v 5y ago
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aikinai 5y ago
Attacking eyes, fingers, groin, etc. would change everything. Everyone thinks grappling is more “realistic” than pre-MMA striking styles, but they forget that most of those grappling positions leave tons of delicate targets wide open for poking, ripping, gouging. The effective techniques in MMA are just as defined by the ground rules as any other martial art. Real “anything goes” fighting would be as different from MMA as MMA is from kickboxing.
- danenania 5y ago
  It changes things, sure, but I think the person best able to adapt and take advantage of those differences would be the better overall fighter, not the person who has practiced more eye gouges or groin kicks. Against a more skilled opponent your attempts to groin kick or break a finger or whatever will most likely lead you to be knocked out or otherwise submitted just like your attempts to choke or side kick would under MMA rules. Being in a position to make those attacks generally implies that your opponent is either less skilled or is deliberately leaving those openings because they know the rules, and could avoid doing so if the rules were different or there weren’t any rules... because ultimately they’re the one in control if they’re a lot better than you at the core skills of fighting. That said, given two otherwise equally skilled fighters, of course the one with more experience under the specific conditions would have an advantage.
- matwood 5y ago
  It actually wouldn't change much at all. Every MMA fighter already instinctively protects their head which includes eyes. Finger locks are laughable in an actual a fight. I know a person who (I think stupidly), refused to tap to an ankle lock in a BJJ match, broke his ankle, but did win the fight. No finger lock was stopping him. I guess someone could try to kick someone's groin and maybe get one through. An MMA fighter is already trained to check kicks down so again unlikely. And if you think someone is going to drop their hands to get to someone's groin...ok. The reality is BJJ and MMA is basically how most street fight/self-defense situations go down. Untrained people wildly throw some punches and end up on the ground. The only caveat, which every grapplers knows, is pulling guard is a competition only thing. In a 'real' fight you never want to be on the bottom.
  - dugmartin 5y ago
    I think this is just dangerous thinking. A real street/bar fighter will head butt your nose and then while your hands go to your face trying to stem the fountain of blood will (if you are a guy) reach down and twist/crush or knee your testicles. The fight will be over in 10 seconds and no amount of knowledge learned on the mat is going to help. The real problem with martial arts is you really can’t train for real fights without being seriously hurt all the time. I say this as a black belt in TKD who still practices but knows the only real winner in a fight is the one that walks away before it starts.
    - roel_v 5y ago
      Oh please. It's 2021. There is an entire internet full of video clips of actual fights, and none of them go down the way you say. All this waflling about 'groin strikes' and 'head butts' is just that - arm chair waffling. Reality (as in, documented facts) has shown the people theorizing like this wrong .
      - austinjp 5y ago
        Erm.... I've literally seen fights start and end with one headbutt. I'd suggest there's a bit of us all "talking past reach other". I have no doubt that anyone who thinks they can end a fight by a headbutt, finger break, or groin kick without learning to trade punches and kicks and to grapple, would be in serious trouble. I'd also say that anyone training only sporting, rule-governed elements of fighting is in a great position compared to someone who has zero experience, but will encounter some very unexpected situations when a bar brawl kicks off. So how about this: we're all right and wrong in some measures, depending on the context? :) (Edit: typo)

roel_v 5y ago

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aikinai 5y ago

Attacking eyes, fingers, groin, etc. would change everything. Everyone thinks grappling is more “realistic” than pre-MMA striking styles, but they forget that most of those grappling positions leave tons of delicate targets wide open for poking, ripping, gouging. The effective techniques in MMA are just as defined by the ground rules as any other martial art. Real “anything goes” fighting would be as different from MMA as MMA is from kickboxing.

danenania 5y ago
It changes things, sure, but I think the person best able to adapt and take advantage of those differences would be the better overall fighter, not the person who has practiced more eye gouges or groin kicks. Against a more skilled opponent your attempts to groin kick or break a finger or whatever will most likely lead you to be knocked out or otherwise submitted just like your attempts to choke or side kick would under MMA rules. Being in a position to make those attacks generally implies that your opponent is either less skilled or is deliberately leaving those openings because they know the rules, and could avoid doing so if the rules were different or there weren’t any rules... because ultimately they’re the one in control if they’re a lot better than you at the core skills of fighting. That said, given two otherwise equally skilled fighters, of course the one with more experience under the specific conditions would have an advantage.
matwood 5y ago
It actually wouldn't change much at all. Every MMA fighter already instinctively protects their head which includes eyes. Finger locks are laughable in an actual a fight. I know a person who (I think stupidly), refused to tap to an ankle lock in a BJJ match, broke his ankle, but did win the fight. No finger lock was stopping him. I guess someone could try to kick someone's groin and maybe get one through. An MMA fighter is already trained to check kicks down so again unlikely. And if you think someone is going to drop their hands to get to someone's groin...ok. The reality is BJJ and MMA is basically how most street fight/self-defense situations go down. Untrained people wildly throw some punches and end up on the ground. The only caveat, which every grapplers knows, is pulling guard is a competition only thing. In a 'real' fight you never want to be on the bottom.
- dugmartin 5y ago
  I think this is just dangerous thinking. A real street/bar fighter will head butt your nose and then while your hands go to your face trying to stem the fountain of blood will (if you are a guy) reach down and twist/crush or knee your testicles. The fight will be over in 10 seconds and no amount of knowledge learned on the mat is going to help. The real problem with martial arts is you really can’t train for real fights without being seriously hurt all the time. I say this as a black belt in TKD who still practices but knows the only real winner in a fight is the one that walks away before it starts.
  - roel_v 5y ago
    Oh please. It's 2021. There is an entire internet full of video clips of actual fights, and none of them go down the way you say. All this waflling about 'groin strikes' and 'head butts' is just that - arm chair waffling. Reality (as in, documented facts) has shown the people theorizing like this wrong .
    - austinjp 5y ago
      Erm.... I've literally seen fights start and end with one headbutt. I'd suggest there's a bit of us all "talking past reach other". I have no doubt that anyone who thinks they can end a fight by a headbutt, finger break, or groin kick without learning to trade punches and kicks and to grapple, would be in serious trouble. I'd also say that anyone training only sporting, rule-governed elements of fighting is in a great position compared to someone who has zero experience, but will encounter some very unexpected situations when a bar brawl kicks off. So how about this: we're all right and wrong in some measures, depending on the context? :) (Edit: typo)