3 ms·

Australians and New Zealanders are westerners too

H8crilA 5y ago
Everything seems to be "west" if you go far enough and allow for sufficient north/south drift.
moooooooaway 5y ago
NZ is not a great example of an average Western country, with regards to a pandemic. For one thing, it is a small and remote island. For another thing, it supplies most of the world's sterile bovine serums because the country has never had a case of mad cow disease. Laugh all you want, but that's a lucrative market and they are very good at border controls.
- zinckiwi 5y ago
  Almost exactly the same size as the island of Great Britain, and while distanced somewhat as the crow flies, precisely one (1) plane fight away from many places.
- below43 5y ago
  Hmm... Remote, yes, but wouldn't describe it as a small island. It's actually a collection of island, of a similar land mass to Great Britain or Japan. But yes, being remote, and being islands surrounded by lots of ocean definitely helps.
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  NZ is not a single island :) Also, both of our largest islands are far larger than Czechia. The South Island/Te Waipounamu is over twice the size of Czechia.
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    Ok, but the core issue you're intentionally ignoring is that nobody wanders into New Zealand without being vetted by border control. Except for a couple of oddballs who boat in (to a couple specific ports) every single person comes through an international import.
    - austhrow743 5y ago
      The core issue you and everyone else who makes this islands arguement is intentionally ignoring is that no country has been flooded with covid spreaders through a practical inability to enforce its borders. That Czechia or anywhere else doesn't only have people coming in through a couple specific locations is a policy decision. They could effectively be an island if they wanted to.
      - bpodgursky 5y ago
        The US has tried and failed for 80 years to close its southern border. Unless you're suggesting the US station ten million soldiers on the border and shoot anyone who tries to enter (hint: this is not politically feasible) closing the US is hopeless.
        EdwardDiego 5y ago
        How much Covid came from Mexico, and not through the airports? The Mexican border is a trojan horse in this discussion.
        bpodgursky 5y ago
        It doesn't matter "how much" came through. If even a handful of cases come through the border, and you have no internal restrictions, it's exponential spread. You either have 100% hard borders, or there's no point.
    - EdwardDiego 5y ago
      Sure, it's definitely easier to enter Czechia illegally than NZ. ...so how much Covid was brought to Czechia by illegal entry?
vmception 5y ago
now that the UK's soft power is crumbling so hard that it reveals them to simply be an island of hooligans, the entire Commonwealth inherits this brand too in response to what you are saying, we can't exclude the Commonwealth from "the West", but maybe it's about time to make a term that does essentially do that. The complement to the union in graph theory. The West except the Commonwealth.

Everything seems to be "west" if you go far enough and allow for sufficient north/south drift.

NZ is not a great example of an average Western country, with regards to a pandemic. For one thing, it is a small and remote island. For another thing, it supplies most of the world's sterile bovine serums because the country has never had a case of mad cow disease. Laugh all you want, but that's a lucrative market and they are very good at border controls.

zinckiwi 5y ago
Almost exactly the same size as the island of Great Britain, and while distanced somewhat as the crow flies, precisely one (1) plane fight away from many places.
below43 5y ago
Hmm... Remote, yes, but wouldn't describe it as a small island. It's actually a collection of island, of a similar land mass to Great Britain or Japan. But yes, being remote, and being islands surrounded by lots of ocean definitely helps.
EdwardDiego 5y ago
NZ is not a single island :) Also, both of our largest islands are far larger than Czechia. The South Island/Te Waipounamu is over twice the size of Czechia.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Ok, but the core issue you're intentionally ignoring is that nobody wanders into New Zealand without being vetted by border control. Except for a couple of oddballs who boat in (to a couple specific ports) every single person comes through an international import.
  - austhrow743 5y ago
    The core issue you and everyone else who makes this islands arguement is intentionally ignoring is that no country has been flooded with covid spreaders through a practical inability to enforce its borders. That Czechia or anywhere else doesn't only have people coming in through a couple specific locations is a policy decision. They could effectively be an island if they wanted to.
    - bpodgursky 5y ago
      The US has tried and failed for 80 years to close its southern border. Unless you're suggesting the US station ten million soldiers on the border and shoot anyone who tries to enter (hint: this is not politically feasible) closing the US is hopeless.
      - EdwardDiego 5y ago
        How much Covid came from Mexico, and not through the airports? The Mexican border is a trojan horse in this discussion.
        bpodgursky 5y ago
        It doesn't matter "how much" came through. If even a handful of cases come through the border, and you have no internal restrictions, it's exponential spread. You either have 100% hard borders, or there's no point.
  - EdwardDiego 5y ago
    Sure, it's definitely easier to enter Czechia illegally than NZ. ...so how much Covid was brought to Czechia by illegal entry?

vmception 5y ago

now that the UK's soft power is crumbling so hard that it reveals them to simply be an island of hooligans, the entire Commonwealth inherits this brand too in response to what you are saying, we can't exclude the Commonwealth from "the West", but maybe it's about time to make a term that does essentially do that. The complement to the union in graph theory. The West except the Commonwealth.