11 ms·

Not school or homeschool, but modular learning

120 points by actfrench 5y ago

actfrench 5y ago
Just a note: since writing this, several families have asked me how to get started with Modular Learning and make sure their child is on track socially, emotionally and academically. Here is a guide to get started. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need support. manisha[at]modulo.app https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/getting-started-with-modular-learning https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/getting-started-with-mo...
iammisc 5y ago
This is just a manner of homeschooling. My church has a homeschool group and they have an open house every year where people sign up for classes independently offered by various tutors. The tutors hold classes for multiple students Technically it's homeschool because all children are out of the public school system and responsibility for their education has not been given to a private school. But in reality, many kids take classes together with various tutors the church group organizes.
- eplanit 5y ago
  Interesting -- that sounds very good. They're actually community-based schools, in a very true sense.
- yosito 5y ago
  I was homeschooled two decades ago, and I had a similar experience: some core classes were delivered via satellite (and recorded into VHS tapes), other classes were taught at a church, some were taught in other families' homes, one class was taught in a private school, I was a part of afterschool clubs, had frequent field trips, and did a lot of self directed learning. The freedom for self directed learning was probably the number one benefit I got out of being "home"-schooled.
6f8986c3 5y ago
I don't know a single homeschool parent that tries to replicate public education at home. Most go for something that falls under the Montesorri umbrella, which seems to work well.
- bobthechef 5y ago
  I've heard good things about Montessori. I've also heard good things about classical education which is inspired by the trivium and quadrivium (there's actually a revival going on right now, I believe largely among Catholics[0]). The influence is Dewey is taken to be disastrous. [0] https://catholicliberaleducation.org/map-of-schools/ https://catholicliberaleducation.org/map-of-schools/
Benjamin_Dobell 5y ago
The article is of interest to me, although it is a bit light on details. I'm increasingly finding myself considering some form of alternate schooling for my children. The public schools in my area are sub-par. Quality public schools exist, but are zoned and therefore my children are not permitted unless we move (expensive and non-desirable). Private schools are absurdly expensive, we've decent public metrics in Australia and they're frequently no better than a decent public school. Worse, they're essentially universally dead set on trying to indoctrinate children into one cult or another. My wife is a primary school teacher. She's incredibly hands on and is renowned for her ability to form relationships, and take a special interest in her students' wellbeing. She's demonstrated her ability to function independently, by taking existing resources and expanding them; having recently launched a small well-being book + play subscription for young children (https://mybookbag.com.au/ https://mybookbag.com.au/). I'm quite interested in teaching, hands-on learning and mentoring myself. I've worked from home for the last 7 years and will continue to do so. I've a 3 year old daughter with Type 1 Diabetes, and I don't much trust her care to others, at least while she's too young to take a more active role in her own care. I'm aware my situation is perhaps uniquely ideal for some form of "home schooling", and yet I'm still extremely hesitant to take the idea seriously. Socialisation is of course a concern, but I think it's more the stigma and also lack of data/oversight. Is there anyone here with much experience in alternate education structures that has any insight to share?
- actfrench 5y ago
  Hi Benjamin, I'm the writer of the modular learning article and would be happy to speak to you (for free of course) and exchange ideas or answer questions as best I can. Please feel free to contact me at manisha[at]modulo.app I also tried to write a short piece about getting started with a modular learning approach based on how I've observed most parents do it successfully. My email is manisha[at]modulo.app if I can be of help. And this offer extends to any parent who is reading this and needs someone to talk to. modulo.app/all-resources/getting-started-with-modular-learning
- actfrench 5y ago
  Oh also, I'd love to hear what details would be most helpful to you. I'd really like to flesh this out more.
musicale 5y ago
School in general should be modularized so that you can pick your own path. It isn't necessary or sensible to think that every student will or should be at the same point in every subject. The predictable result is that some students are bored as they are held back while others become frustrated as they fall hopelessly behind. Usually the latter are punished (if not publicly shamed) with bad grades simply for having less experience with the material and/or taking longer to master it for the first time. "Tracking" was supposed to mitigate this to some extent, but it tends to be a) used across the board for multiple subjects and b) used as a means of sorting students into winners (who are richly rewarded with status and additional opportunities) and losers (who are deprived of rewards and benefits rather than offered additional help and assistance.) Universities use a modular approach to great effect: you can usually take any course (even graduate courses) if you've completed the prerequisites. And there are multiple ways of fulfilling graduation requirements. A limitation of the university approach is that for a given course in a given term, everyone in the course is usually still in lock-step. Sometimes this is mitigated by offering multiple versions of a course with different time scales (usually an "accelerated" version for people who are familiar with the material and/or want to devote more time per week.)
- weimerica 5y ago
  Do US schools tend to not allow for the "university" style course selection? In mine, which is all I really know, I was allowed to double-up on certain subjects, e.g. biology and chemistry side-by-side such that I completed all required courses in three years rather than the traditional four.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    It's pretty typical to have flexibility in scheduling. Some classes are mandatory for a particular grade level, the rest is prerequisite-based. At my local school, there was an extra early bird period in the morning if you wanted to take an extra class. We could also take classes from the local community college and have them count as both high school credit and college credit (today, the high school I went to has moved and is now sharing a property line with the community college, so it makes it very easy for students to go back and forth). My niece just graduated from high school two years ago and she's pretty close to finishing her bachelor's, because she had earned a lot of college credit already. For motivated students it really works out great.
netr0ute 5y ago
"Modular learning" reminds me of this video: https://youtu.be/GyV_UG60dD4 https://youtu.be/GyV_UG60dD4
golemiprague 5y ago
The problem with schools these days is that it is mostly women driven in all levels and very much government controlled. Women and governments tend to not innovate. The solution is to give people education coupons and let the free market sort out education, then you will see true innovation. I am not saying completely without any regulation, like any other type of business it will need some, but it must be something less rigid where each parent can decide for themselves and where men are much more involved.
staiz 5y ago
Despite the authors experience, she still percieves goal 1 and 2 in the wrong order. When the primary stake holder in schools the parents/voters make the biggest complaint the most is when its because a school is closed for a day, forcing them to leave work / miss thier tv show. The second most important stakeholders, the government, set a standardised curriculum so they can have thier authorised inspectors report to the primary stakeholders the government school is either "excellent" or "outstanding" The teachers the third, can talk, unionise, move to private education, they can try have high personal standards but they choose to not have a choice in improving the system of schooling, unless they are some religious school which has greater agency but they generally only utilise this to bolt on thier respective ideology. the stakeholders of lowest importance, the children, get what thier given, and probably should be a bit more thankfull about it.
nevinera 5y ago
I mean.. I generally agree with the position taken in the article, but it's pretty light on meaningful information or detail. Is the goal just to show a bunch of people that there are more options than they think?
- actfrench 5y ago
  That's a good point. It's mostly an opinion piece, but I think it would be helpful to provide more real-world examples and data.
rdtwo 5y ago
There are really only 3 subjects that matter math english And science in that order. Everything else is nice to have make you more well rounded but not strictly required. If you can create good engaging modules in any of those that’s all I really care about. The problem is that many have tried but I have found nothing out there that works well. I have a preschool age kid and nothing really is engaging
tomcam 5y ago
Sick burn, and all too true in my experiences as both student, homeschooler, and parent of traditionally schooled kids. “From what I’ve seen, the goal of school is to do an adequate job preparing our future workforce to do jobs that were relevant yesterday.”
TaupeRanger 5y ago
Sounds like an advertisement. Knock the current system and then paint a rosy picture of something that is not widespread and has only been happening for maybe a year or two, with no long term results or implementation strategies.
jedberg 5y ago
This is called unschooling and has been around for decades. My friend is a big believer in unschooling. You basically just give kids resources and then let them learn whatever they are interested in. There have been long term studies done on kids that grew up in unschooled households. They tended to do fine in college, but were no better or worse off. They tended to score slightly higher on emotional evaluations and also tended to be slightly more predisposed to entrepreneurship and the arts (and less interested in careers with more rigid structure like science and engineering).
- nostrebored 5y ago
  Completely agreed that this is just unschooling. I'd be interested to see the data on outcomes though. From the (fairly large) number of unschooling people I've met, the results seem to be much more extreme. People are either working upper-class white collar jobs or chronically unemployed.
  - jedberg 5y ago
    This is a good summary: https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/37091/how-do-unschoolers-turn-out https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/37091/how-do-unschoolers-turn...
- actfrench 5y ago
  I absolutely love the unschooling community and that approach to raising and educating children. However, I think this is a misnomer in many instances and a better word to describe a specific type of learning as necessary. As I understand it unschooling mostly applies to an approach that heavily emphasizes self-directed learning. In other cases, uschooling is a broad word which ranges from families who have no structure to their children's education to ones who have a full schedule with lots of academics. Modular Learning is an educational movement of parents who want greater flexibility, but also a rigorous and challenging education for their children which their composing through modules (tutors, learning apps, classes, skill shares) Modular learning doesn't preclude going to school either. In many cases, Modular learners go to school but complement that with afterschool activities, apps and tutors. The studies you refer to also show that families who use pure unschooling do mostly the same , but those with some structure do better academically. It's hard to really give credit to these studies because they apply to such a small sample of kids whose families are actively involved in their learning. More research is definitely needed.
temp8964 5y ago
Is everything free? It's not very clear on their website.
annoyingnoob 5y ago
I read that and thought, Do you have kids?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chromatin 5y ago
Fascinating reading. We have two school age children, and two who are not yet school aged. We would like to home school, but have the same concern others here have articulated (and other HN posters have answered, partially) regarding socialization. One concern I have is that an oft-given solution to socialization is "church," but we are not religious and do not plan to become so. This limits options somewhat, and also makes us unlike (our perception of) other home-school families. Would be glad to hear other suggestions from others who might have had this experience (i.e., being non-religious homeschoolers).
- em-bee 5y ago
  boy/girl scouts, sports classes, music, any other extracurricular activities that you can send your kids to can help with socialization.
- 6f8986c3 5y ago
  Are you not religious, or anti-religious? If you just don’t religion, a small, local church might still be a good call, proving they’re amicable. Your kids are going to learn about religion one way or another. Look at this as an education into what religious people are really like.
forgotmypw17 5y ago
A smol human of average intelligence can complete average U.S. grade school material by the time they're 13-15, at a reasonable pace, if they get individual instruction. Imagine the advantage you get getting there 2-3 years ahead of most people.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > Imagine the advantage you get getting there 2-3 years ahead of most people. IME, there isn't much. You get to college a few years early, it's a kind of awkward experience, and then life happens. Some of my friends lost a year or two due to the adjustment. Other friends ended up in boring low-risk careers and regret not being mature enough at graduation to know what they wanted to do (switching majors, grad school, starting a company, etc.) In the best case you start the career that you would've had anyways 2-3 years earlier. I've met a lot of people who got started on life early (you probably have too). Most look back on it as having no material effect on their lives. A few consider it the worst decision they ever made. Some people imagine a huge financial difference, but retirement is a long game and other variables dominate. A $10K difference in your salary at your first position, or getting laid off at an unlucky time, or choosing to optimize for something other than income, or buying randomcoin at the right/wrong time, or having your rsus vest in the right quarters, etc. are all going to have a larger financial impact than an extra 2 years in the labor market over a 30+ year career.
  - xixixao 5y ago
    I personally chose longer schooling because I loved school. Looking at people who graduated earlier I’m envious that they can start a family earlier. I don’t know about money, but with kids I think age is important (doubly so for women).
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      > Looking at people who graduated earlier I’m envious that they can start a family earlier. Can they? You can start having kids as soon as you find a spouse. College is a great time to date with the intention of finding a spouse. Going to college at 15 can make finding a spouse early in life considerably more difficult.
IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
I would posit that a majority of thise reading HN could make a major impact into a child's education if they had the chance + incentive to do so. Life and responsibility mostly get in the way. Its hard enough to parent when you are trying to work full time and keep the house clean. No time for teaching left. Those that have ample time to teach (young and single) are too disconnected or not incentivized to actually care. By the time we can teach (old/retirement age), there is no longer a chance to make an inpact on those lives you love.
msolujic 5y ago
Andrew of Mixergy podcast recently had great guest and episode related to better schooling with Chrisman Frank, the founder of Synthesis. Intro: If youve been a long-time listener you might have heard me complain about my education. So much so that a guest at one time told me to stop. But I still think there should be a better way. Another person who feels that way is Elon Musk. He hired someone to create a whole new curriculum for his kids. Well, todays guest got to see inside that program and he was so blown away by it that he created a company that kids outside of SpaceX can get access to. duration: 1:03h Episode Download link (58 MB): https://mixergy.com/wp-content/audio/Chrisman-Frank-Synthesis-on-Mixergy0721.mp3 https://mixergy.com/wp-content/audio/Chrisman-Frank-Synthesi... Show Notes: https://mixergy.com/interviews/synthesis-with-chrisman-frank/ https://mixergy.com/interviews/synthesis-with-chrisman-frank...
mncharity 5y ago
Different "modular", but it came to mind: years back I saw a paper proposing a modular medical training regime for India, intending to make it reentrant and incremental commitment. Core observation was there's overlap between training say a community health worker and a nurse, an advanced nurse and a doctor, an optometrist and an ophthalmologist. So rather than having training streams diverge early, there'd be courses in common. And rather than having to restart from scratch if switching streams, or returned from profession to school to upgrade, you could place out of parts. Sort of like US layered nursing credentials, but writ larger. Hypothesized societal benefits included lower latency demand-response, easier/faster scaling, and greater equity. Imagine if modular, rather than pipeline, was the default societal approach to structuring education? (A personal aside: I'm interested in exploratory discussion of transformative improvement of preK-13 science content/progressions/interactives, using extreme domain expertise and SER mashups. Science and engineering are a richly interwoven interdisciplinary tapestry - what if they were taught like that? If anyone knows of settings for such discussion, I'd love to hear of it - thanks! Bonus fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUyVd1pO3nI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUyVd1pO3nI 5-8-yr old picture book to vaccinate against natural selection misconceptions https://www.bu.edu/cdl/files/2017/10/Emmons_et_al-2017-Journal_of_Research_in_Science_Teaching.pdf https://www.bu.edu/cdl/files/2017/10/Emmons_et_al-2017-Journ... )
- sokoloff 5y ago
  SER is ____?
  - mncharity 5y ago
    Science education research, sorry. Which understandably focuses on individual deployable innovations. Rather than on exploring mashups of multiple hard-to-deploy innovations, with interdependencies, regardless of how awesome their potential synergies. For example, on better teaching of deep time, or genetics central dogma, or natural selection, separately. Rather than on say "if all of those, and more, were simultaneously done cutting-edge-research well or better, what possibilities might that open up for an evolution-rooted biology learning progression? How about in K-6?" Or "if we managed to successfully teach both size/scale down to atoms, and a novel atoms-up foundation, in K-2, neither of which have been done even in (quite unimpressive) research, what might a broad and modern material sciences preK-8 progression look like? Including atoms-dancing phonons, gels, multiscale structure, and so much more." And instructors are understandably focused on the performance art of triage education of their students at hand, towards standardized exams and incremental outcomes, under severe resource constraints. And textbooks... sigh. So there are few incentives for anyone to explore "what might this all look like, if it wasn't wretched". And the expertise requirements seem extreme - like "biology tome with a hundred authors" extreme, but with extensive collaboration also required, and for something much much smaller. There's hope, but it's non-trivial. Whole-program learning progression rewrites in life-sciences professional education is perhaps the/a closest analogy. But even there, time and effort constraints severely restrict exploration. You can't afford to explore both how to successfully give med school graduate students a firm grasp of size, and how to use that to better teach physical biology. The absence of each denying incentive to the other. So basically neither happens, on a timescale of decades. But perhaps, if there were a clearer vision of what it might look like, of the payoff, there might be greater motivation to work towards it.
bsldld 5y ago
I was part of a discussion few years ago where few people of a nearby university were very eager to implement modular learning, micro-credentials etc. They were discussing this in all earnest. Soon they realised that the logistics are just too much to handle this with the combinations that can happen with the modularisation and micro-credentials. And the evaluations becomes not just nightmarish but also very difficult to achieve. The realisation was that this sounds very good on paper but is a nightmare in practice.
- ampdepolymerase 5y ago
  For most universities, their micro-degrees program are considered to be a revenue source. They do not issue those directly under the same brand as their main undergraduate college.
nerdmom 5y ago
In many ways, this is what modern homeschooling really is. Don't get me wrong. I know that many people who are dropping out of traditional school try to recreate school at home and that is a mistake. But many homeschoolers now follow this kind of model. My family has been homeschooling for 15 years and my kids take science from one person, choir from another. The kids volunteer with me in the community and do a lot of following their interests along with their very basic requirements. Your grade is your age, not your academics so you go at your own pace for learning. We have had so much success with it that I recommend this approach highly.

120 points by actfrench 5y ago

Just a note: since writing this, several families have asked me how to get started with Modular Learning and make sure their child is on track socially, emotionally and academically. Here is a guide to get started. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need support. manisha[at]modulo.app https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/getting-started-with-modular-learning https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/getting-started-with-mo...

iammisc 5y ago

This is just a manner of homeschooling. My church has a homeschool group and they have an open house every year where people sign up for classes independently offered by various tutors. The tutors hold classes for multiple students Technically it's homeschool because all children are out of the public school system and responsibility for their education has not been given to a private school. But in reality, many kids take classes together with various tutors the church group organizes.

eplanit 5y ago
Interesting -- that sounds very good. They're actually community-based schools, in a very true sense.
yosito 5y ago
I was homeschooled two decades ago, and I had a similar experience: some core classes were delivered via satellite (and recorded into VHS tapes), other classes were taught at a church, some were taught in other families' homes, one class was taught in a private school, I was a part of afterschool clubs, had frequent field trips, and did a lot of self directed learning. The freedom for self directed learning was probably the number one benefit I got out of being "home"-schooled.

6f8986c3 5y ago

I don't know a single homeschool parent that tries to replicate public education at home. Most go for something that falls under the Montesorri umbrella, which seems to work well.

bobthechef 5y ago
I've heard good things about Montessori. I've also heard good things about classical education which is inspired by the trivium and quadrivium (there's actually a revival going on right now, I believe largely among Catholics[0]). The influence is Dewey is taken to be disastrous. [0] https://catholicliberaleducation.org/map-of-schools/ https://catholicliberaleducation.org/map-of-schools/

Benjamin_Dobell 5y ago

The article is of interest to me, although it is a bit light on details. I'm increasingly finding myself considering some form of alternate schooling for my children. The public schools in my area are sub-par. Quality public schools exist, but are zoned and therefore my children are not permitted unless we move (expensive and non-desirable). Private schools are absurdly expensive, we've decent public metrics in Australia and they're frequently no better than a decent public school. Worse, they're essentially universally dead set on trying to indoctrinate children into one cult or another. My wife is a primary school teacher. She's incredibly hands on and is renowned for her ability to form relationships, and take a special interest in her students' wellbeing. She's demonstrated her ability to function independently, by taking existing resources and expanding them; having recently launched a small well-being book + play subscription for young children (https://mybookbag.com.au/ https://mybookbag.com.au/). I'm quite interested in teaching, hands-on learning and mentoring myself. I've worked from home for the last 7 years and will continue to do so. I've a 3 year old daughter with Type 1 Diabetes, and I don't much trust her care to others, at least while she's too young to take a more active role in her own care. I'm aware my situation is perhaps uniquely ideal for some form of "home schooling", and yet I'm still extremely hesitant to take the idea seriously. Socialisation is of course a concern, but I think it's more the stigma and also lack of data/oversight. Is there anyone here with much experience in alternate education structures that has any insight to share?

actfrench 5y ago
Hi Benjamin, I'm the writer of the modular learning article and would be happy to speak to you (for free of course) and exchange ideas or answer questions as best I can. Please feel free to contact me at manisha[at]modulo.app I also tried to write a short piece about getting started with a modular learning approach based on how I've observed most parents do it successfully. My email is manisha[at]modulo.app if I can be of help. And this offer extends to any parent who is reading this and needs someone to talk to. modulo.app/all-resources/getting-started-with-modular-learning
actfrench 5y ago
Oh also, I'd love to hear what details would be most helpful to you. I'd really like to flesh this out more.

musicale 5y ago

School in general should be modularized so that you can pick your own path. It isn't necessary or sensible to think that every student will or should be at the same point in every subject. The predictable result is that some students are bored as they are held back while others become frustrated as they fall hopelessly behind. Usually the latter are punished (if not publicly shamed) with bad grades simply for having less experience with the material and/or taking longer to master it for the first time. "Tracking" was supposed to mitigate this to some extent, but it tends to be a) used across the board for multiple subjects and b) used as a means of sorting students into winners (who are richly rewarded with status and additional opportunities) and losers (who are deprived of rewards and benefits rather than offered additional help and assistance.) Universities use a modular approach to great effect: you can usually take any course (even graduate courses) if you've completed the prerequisites. And there are multiple ways of fulfilling graduation requirements. A limitation of the university approach is that for a given course in a given term, everyone in the course is usually still in lock-step. Sometimes this is mitigated by offering multiple versions of a course with different time scales (usually an "accelerated" version for people who are familiar with the material and/or want to devote more time per week.)

weimerica 5y ago
Do US schools tend to not allow for the "university" style course selection? In mine, which is all I really know, I was allowed to double-up on certain subjects, e.g. biology and chemistry side-by-side such that I completed all required courses in three years rather than the traditional four.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  It's pretty typical to have flexibility in scheduling. Some classes are mandatory for a particular grade level, the rest is prerequisite-based. At my local school, there was an extra early bird period in the morning if you wanted to take an extra class. We could also take classes from the local community college and have them count as both high school credit and college credit (today, the high school I went to has moved and is now sharing a property line with the community college, so it makes it very easy for students to go back and forth). My niece just graduated from high school two years ago and she's pretty close to finishing her bachelor's, because she had earned a lot of college credit already. For motivated students it really works out great.

netr0ute 5y ago

"Modular learning" reminds me of this video: https://youtu.be/GyV_UG60dD4 https://youtu.be/GyV_UG60dD4

golemiprague 5y ago

The problem with schools these days is that it is mostly women driven in all levels and very much government controlled. Women and governments tend to not innovate. The solution is to give people education coupons and let the free market sort out education, then you will see true innovation. I am not saying completely without any regulation, like any other type of business it will need some, but it must be something less rigid where each parent can decide for themselves and where men are much more involved.

staiz 5y ago

Despite the authors experience, she still percieves goal 1 and 2 in the wrong order. When the primary stake holder in schools the parents/voters make the biggest complaint the most is when its because a school is closed for a day, forcing them to leave work / miss thier tv show. The second most important stakeholders, the government, set a standardised curriculum so they can have thier authorised inspectors report to the primary stakeholders the government school is either "excellent" or "outstanding" The teachers the third, can talk, unionise, move to private education, they can try have high personal standards but they choose to not have a choice in improving the system of schooling, unless they are some religious school which has greater agency but they generally only utilise this to bolt on thier respective ideology. the stakeholders of lowest importance, the children, get what thier given, and probably should be a bit more thankfull about it.

nevinera 5y ago

I mean.. I generally agree with the position taken in the article, but it's pretty light on meaningful information or detail. Is the goal just to show a bunch of people that there are more options than they think?

actfrench 5y ago
That's a good point. It's mostly an opinion piece, but I think it would be helpful to provide more real-world examples and data.

rdtwo 5y ago

There are really only 3 subjects that matter math english And science in that order. Everything else is nice to have make you more well rounded but not strictly required. If you can create good engaging modules in any of those that’s all I really care about. The problem is that many have tried but I have found nothing out there that works well. I have a preschool age kid and nothing really is engaging

tomcam 5y ago

Sick burn, and all too true in my experiences as both student, homeschooler, and parent of traditionally schooled kids. “From what I’ve seen, the goal of school is to do an adequate job preparing our future workforce to do jobs that were relevant yesterday.”

TaupeRanger 5y ago

Sounds like an advertisement. Knock the current system and then paint a rosy picture of something that is not widespread and has only been happening for maybe a year or two, with no long term results or implementation strategies.

jedberg 5y ago

This is called unschooling and has been around for decades. My friend is a big believer in unschooling. You basically just give kids resources and then let them learn whatever they are interested in. There have been long term studies done on kids that grew up in unschooled households. They tended to do fine in college, but were no better or worse off. They tended to score slightly higher on emotional evaluations and also tended to be slightly more predisposed to entrepreneurship and the arts (and less interested in careers with more rigid structure like science and engineering).

nostrebored 5y ago
Completely agreed that this is just unschooling. I'd be interested to see the data on outcomes though. From the (fairly large) number of unschooling people I've met, the results seem to be much more extreme. People are either working upper-class white collar jobs or chronically unemployed.
- jedberg 5y ago
  This is a good summary: https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/37091/how-do-unschoolers-turn-out https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/37091/how-do-unschoolers-turn...
actfrench 5y ago
I absolutely love the unschooling community and that approach to raising and educating children. However, I think this is a misnomer in many instances and a better word to describe a specific type of learning as necessary. As I understand it unschooling mostly applies to an approach that heavily emphasizes self-directed learning. In other cases, uschooling is a broad word which ranges from families who have no structure to their children's education to ones who have a full schedule with lots of academics. Modular Learning is an educational movement of parents who want greater flexibility, but also a rigorous and challenging education for their children which their composing through modules (tutors, learning apps, classes, skill shares) Modular learning doesn't preclude going to school either. In many cases, Modular learners go to school but complement that with afterschool activities, apps and tutors. The studies you refer to also show that families who use pure unschooling do mostly the same , but those with some structure do better academically. It's hard to really give credit to these studies because they apply to such a small sample of kids whose families are actively involved in their learning. More research is definitely needed.

temp8964 5y ago

Is everything free? It's not very clear on their website.

annoyingnoob 5y ago

I read that and thought, Do you have kids?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

chromatin 5y ago

Fascinating reading. We have two school age children, and two who are not yet school aged. We would like to home school, but have the same concern others here have articulated (and other HN posters have answered, partially) regarding socialization. One concern I have is that an oft-given solution to socialization is "church," but we are not religious and do not plan to become so. This limits options somewhat, and also makes us unlike (our perception of) other home-school families. Would be glad to hear other suggestions from others who might have had this experience (i.e., being non-religious homeschoolers).

em-bee 5y ago
boy/girl scouts, sports classes, music, any other extracurricular activities that you can send your kids to can help with socialization.
6f8986c3 5y ago
Are you not religious, or anti-religious? If you just don’t religion, a small, local church might still be a good call, proving they’re amicable. Your kids are going to learn about religion one way or another. Look at this as an education into what religious people are really like.

forgotmypw17 5y ago

A smol human of average intelligence can complete average U.S. grade school material by the time they're 13-15, at a reasonable pace, if they get individual instruction. Imagine the advantage you get getting there 2-3 years ahead of most people.

throwawaygh 5y ago
> Imagine the advantage you get getting there 2-3 years ahead of most people. IME, there isn't much. You get to college a few years early, it's a kind of awkward experience, and then life happens. Some of my friends lost a year or two due to the adjustment. Other friends ended up in boring low-risk careers and regret not being mature enough at graduation to know what they wanted to do (switching majors, grad school, starting a company, etc.) In the best case you start the career that you would've had anyways 2-3 years earlier. I've met a lot of people who got started on life early (you probably have too). Most look back on it as having no material effect on their lives. A few consider it the worst decision they ever made. Some people imagine a huge financial difference, but retirement is a long game and other variables dominate. A $10K difference in your salary at your first position, or getting laid off at an unlucky time, or choosing to optimize for something other than income, or buying randomcoin at the right/wrong time, or having your rsus vest in the right quarters, etc. are all going to have a larger financial impact than an extra 2 years in the labor market over a 30+ year career.
- xixixao 5y ago
  I personally chose longer schooling because I loved school. Looking at people who graduated earlier I’m envious that they can start a family earlier. I don’t know about money, but with kids I think age is important (doubly so for women).
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    > Looking at people who graduated earlier I’m envious that they can start a family earlier. Can they? You can start having kids as soon as you find a spouse. College is a great time to date with the intention of finding a spouse. Going to college at 15 can make finding a spouse early in life considerably more difficult.

IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago

I would posit that a majority of thise reading HN could make a major impact into a child's education if they had the chance + incentive to do so. Life and responsibility mostly get in the way. Its hard enough to parent when you are trying to work full time and keep the house clean. No time for teaching left. Those that have ample time to teach (young and single) are too disconnected or not incentivized to actually care. By the time we can teach (old/retirement age), there is no longer a chance to make an inpact on those lives you love.

msolujic 5y ago

Andrew of Mixergy podcast recently had great guest and episode related to better schooling with Chrisman Frank, the founder of Synthesis. Intro: If youve been a long-time listener you might have heard me complain about my education. So much so that a guest at one time told me to stop. But I still think there should be a better way. Another person who feels that way is Elon Musk. He hired someone to create a whole new curriculum for his kids. Well, todays guest got to see inside that program and he was so blown away by it that he created a company that kids outside of SpaceX can get access to. duration: 1:03h Episode Download link (58 MB): https://mixergy.com/wp-content/audio/Chrisman-Frank-Synthesis-on-Mixergy0721.mp3 https://mixergy.com/wp-content/audio/Chrisman-Frank-Synthesi... Show Notes: https://mixergy.com/interviews/synthesis-with-chrisman-frank/ https://mixergy.com/interviews/synthesis-with-chrisman-frank...

mncharity 5y ago

Different "modular", but it came to mind: years back I saw a paper proposing a modular medical training regime for India, intending to make it reentrant and incremental commitment. Core observation was there's overlap between training say a community health worker and a nurse, an advanced nurse and a doctor, an optometrist and an ophthalmologist. So rather than having training streams diverge early, there'd be courses in common. And rather than having to restart from scratch if switching streams, or returned from profession to school to upgrade, you could place out of parts. Sort of like US layered nursing credentials, but writ larger. Hypothesized societal benefits included lower latency demand-response, easier/faster scaling, and greater equity. Imagine if modular, rather than pipeline, was the default societal approach to structuring education? (A personal aside: I'm interested in exploratory discussion of transformative improvement of preK-13 science content/progressions/interactives, using extreme domain expertise and SER mashups. Science and engineering are a richly interwoven interdisciplinary tapestry - what if they were taught like that? If anyone knows of settings for such discussion, I'd love to hear of it - thanks! Bonus fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUyVd1pO3nI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUyVd1pO3nI 5-8-yr old picture book to vaccinate against natural selection misconceptions https://www.bu.edu/cdl/files/2017/10/Emmons_et_al-2017-Journal_of_Research_in_Science_Teaching.pdf https://www.bu.edu/cdl/files/2017/10/Emmons_et_al-2017-Journ... )

sokoloff 5y ago
SER is ____?
- mncharity 5y ago
  Science education research, sorry. Which understandably focuses on individual deployable innovations. Rather than on exploring mashups of multiple hard-to-deploy innovations, with interdependencies, regardless of how awesome their potential synergies. For example, on better teaching of deep time, or genetics central dogma, or natural selection, separately. Rather than on say "if all of those, and more, were simultaneously done cutting-edge-research well or better, what possibilities might that open up for an evolution-rooted biology learning progression? How about in K-6?" Or "if we managed to successfully teach both size/scale down to atoms, and a novel atoms-up foundation, in K-2, neither of which have been done even in (quite unimpressive) research, what might a broad and modern material sciences preK-8 progression look like? Including atoms-dancing phonons, gels, multiscale structure, and so much more." And instructors are understandably focused on the performance art of triage education of their students at hand, towards standardized exams and incremental outcomes, under severe resource constraints. And textbooks... sigh. So there are few incentives for anyone to explore "what might this all look like, if it wasn't wretched". And the expertise requirements seem extreme - like "biology tome with a hundred authors" extreme, but with extensive collaboration also required, and for something much much smaller. There's hope, but it's non-trivial. Whole-program learning progression rewrites in life-sciences professional education is perhaps the/a closest analogy. But even there, time and effort constraints severely restrict exploration. You can't afford to explore both how to successfully give med school graduate students a firm grasp of size, and how to use that to better teach physical biology. The absence of each denying incentive to the other. So basically neither happens, on a timescale of decades. But perhaps, if there were a clearer vision of what it might look like, of the payoff, there might be greater motivation to work towards it.

bsldld 5y ago

I was part of a discussion few years ago where few people of a nearby university were very eager to implement modular learning, micro-credentials etc. They were discussing this in all earnest. Soon they realised that the logistics are just too much to handle this with the combinations that can happen with the modularisation and micro-credentials. And the evaluations becomes not just nightmarish but also very difficult to achieve. The realisation was that this sounds very good on paper but is a nightmare in practice.

ampdepolymerase 5y ago
For most universities, their micro-degrees program are considered to be a revenue source. They do not issue those directly under the same brand as their main undergraduate college.

nerdmom 5y ago

In many ways, this is what modern homeschooling really is. Don't get me wrong. I know that many people who are dropping out of traditional school try to recreate school at home and that is a mistake. But many homeschoolers now follow this kind of model. My family has been homeschooling for 15 years and my kids take science from one person, choir from another. The kids volunteer with me in the community and do a lot of following their interests along with their very basic requirements. Your grade is your age, not your academics so you go at your own pace for learning. We have had so much success with it that I recommend this approach highly.