5 ms·

I think these water heaters in question are actually hybrid units. They cool the surrounding room to maintain a temperature set point. In some places, colder ro

I think these water heaters in question are actually hybrid units. They cool the surrounding room to maintain a temperature set point. In some places, colder room air and thus more condensation is not appreciated. A less-sophisticated approach is to put your tank heater on a timer. Think carefully before you do this. Does your tank heater have the capacity to keep the water hot for a full shower, until you’re back under the non-peak schedule? If it doesn’t, you’ll be the first to hear about it.

Retric 5y ago
Large insulated tanks of water are cheap. Sizing your house for a full week’s hot water is going to be cheaper than paying peak rates. That doesn’t help people today, but water heaters don’t last that long. Alternatively a tankless water heater provides both redundancy and instantly hot water.
- labster 5y ago
  Large tanks are cheap, square feet of residential space are expensive. Tankless water heaters work well when powered by nat gas, but if you want electric it’s not great. I’ve been intending to do solar water heating, and convert from gas to electric, but the old heater gave out at the wrong time. So the current plan is build the solar and make a new place to move the electric tank into, then use the other tank for extra storage of the solar heated water. The good news about climate change is that I never have to worry about the pipes freezing any more.
  - vl 5y ago
    > The good news about climate change is that I never have to worry about the pipes freezing any more. As they recently learned in Texas.
    - labster 5y ago
      Nah, I’m in coastal California. The last frost here was in the 1990s, last time it snowed was the 1930s. Think I’ll be okay.
      - kube-system 5y ago
        Climate change is making weather more extreme, in both directions. “Global warming” is a good descriptor of global climate as a whole but a bad descriptor of the effects on local weather. Many places are seeing higher highs and lower lows. The only saving grace at the coasts is that you’re sitting beside a giant heatsink.
  - seized 5y ago
    Climate change tends to mean more extremes, hot and cold (and windy). Southwest Canada is normally known for mild summers but it peaked over 110F last week. It was 95+F in my office. So maybe plan accordingly just in case....
  - Retric 5y ago
    A family of 4 is normally fine with a 60 gallon water heater. Doubling that to 120 gallons takes up roughly 1 extra square foot of floor space assuming a 6’ tall tank. If you’re living in Manhattan at ~1,500$/sf might be worth it to avoid peak rates, but just about anywhere else it clearly is.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
cartoonworld 5y ago
>A less-sophisticated approach is to put your tank heater on a timer. Think carefully before you do this. Do not do this without understanding the lifecycle of legionella pneumophila, or you will face a dramatic decrease in your quality of life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires'_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires'_disease
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Yeah, timer or grid controlled water heaters are old and busted (especially with bacteria concerns due to a lack of in tank convection). New hotness are heat pump water heaters that are very efficient and can even add cool air to a conditioned spaces by their inherent operation. Electric vehicle charging orchestrated as large aggregate loads are what replaces “the humble water heater.” Tankless heaters are great if you’re burning gas, but electric versions are wildly inefficient versus a heat pump and require very large circuits and service entrances on the load center/breaker panel.
  - ip26 5y ago
    Heat pump water heaters do seem promising... But many water heaters live in cold basements... Classic tanked electric is so cheap to make & operate, I have come to think they may always be with us. (Though certainly a heat pump water heater is an easy choice in the right climate)
    - otterley 5y ago
      "Cold" basements rarely fall below 50 degrees Fahrenheit/10C. There's plenty of thermal headroom below that for heat pumps to work. Heat pumps already work outdoors at below freezing. I don't think there's anything to worry about.
      - s0rce 5y ago
        More of a problem is when your water heater is within your conditioned space envelope and in the cold months when you are heating your space the hot water heater takes that heat. Its not a huge issue but you do run the heater extra for the heat that's going into your hot water. If you've got an air source heat pump outside then its just an extra step.
jethro_tell 5y ago
I have a few servers that I have in a rack in my basement for various projects and work that I do. I ended up having to cool it in the summer so I made a small room around it to limit the amount I had to cool. When I replaced my water heater, I went with the hybrid model and dropped the AC. The room stays cool, my water heater uses less power on average and I don't have to fire up the ac unit at all.
sokoloff 5y ago
Inherent in the cooling is (local) dehumidification.

Retric 5y ago

Large insulated tanks of water are cheap. Sizing your house for a full week’s hot water is going to be cheaper than paying peak rates. That doesn’t help people today, but water heaters don’t last that long. Alternatively a tankless water heater provides both redundancy and instantly hot water.

labster 5y ago
Large tanks are cheap, square feet of residential space are expensive. Tankless water heaters work well when powered by nat gas, but if you want electric it’s not great. I’ve been intending to do solar water heating, and convert from gas to electric, but the old heater gave out at the wrong time. So the current plan is build the solar and make a new place to move the electric tank into, then use the other tank for extra storage of the solar heated water. The good news about climate change is that I never have to worry about the pipes freezing any more.
- vl 5y ago
  > The good news about climate change is that I never have to worry about the pipes freezing any more. As they recently learned in Texas.
  - labster 5y ago
    Nah, I’m in coastal California. The last frost here was in the 1990s, last time it snowed was the 1930s. Think I’ll be okay.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      Climate change is making weather more extreme, in both directions. “Global warming” is a good descriptor of global climate as a whole but a bad descriptor of the effects on local weather. Many places are seeing higher highs and lower lows. The only saving grace at the coasts is that you’re sitting beside a giant heatsink.
- seized 5y ago
  Climate change tends to mean more extremes, hot and cold (and windy). Southwest Canada is normally known for mild summers but it peaked over 110F last week. It was 95+F in my office. So maybe plan accordingly just in case....
- Retric 5y ago
  A family of 4 is normally fine with a 60 gallon water heater. Doubling that to 120 gallons takes up roughly 1 extra square foot of floor space assuming a 6’ tall tank. If you’re living in Manhattan at ~1,500$/sf might be worth it to avoid peak rates, but just about anywhere else it clearly is.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

cartoonworld 5y ago

>A less-sophisticated approach is to put your tank heater on a timer. Think carefully before you do this. Do not do this without understanding the lifecycle of legionella pneumophila, or you will face a dramatic decrease in your quality of life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires'_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires'_disease

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Yeah, timer or grid controlled water heaters are old and busted (especially with bacteria concerns due to a lack of in tank convection). New hotness are heat pump water heaters that are very efficient and can even add cool air to a conditioned spaces by their inherent operation. Electric vehicle charging orchestrated as large aggregate loads are what replaces “the humble water heater.” Tankless heaters are great if you’re burning gas, but electric versions are wildly inefficient versus a heat pump and require very large circuits and service entrances on the load center/breaker panel.
- ip26 5y ago
  Heat pump water heaters do seem promising... But many water heaters live in cold basements... Classic tanked electric is so cheap to make & operate, I have come to think they may always be with us. (Though certainly a heat pump water heater is an easy choice in the right climate)
  - otterley 5y ago
    "Cold" basements rarely fall below 50 degrees Fahrenheit/10C. There's plenty of thermal headroom below that for heat pumps to work. Heat pumps already work outdoors at below freezing. I don't think there's anything to worry about.
    - s0rce 5y ago
      More of a problem is when your water heater is within your conditioned space envelope and in the cold months when you are heating your space the hot water heater takes that heat. Its not a huge issue but you do run the heater extra for the heat that's going into your hot water. If you've got an air source heat pump outside then its just an extra step.

jethro_tell 5y ago

I have a few servers that I have in a rack in my basement for various projects and work that I do. I ended up having to cool it in the summer so I made a small room around it to limit the amount I had to cool. When I replaced my water heater, I went with the hybrid model and dropped the AC. The room stays cool, my water heater uses less power on average and I don't have to fire up the ac unit at all.

sokoloff 5y ago

Inherent in the cooling is (local) dehumidification.