4 ms·

Well said. Anecdotally, the level of resentment I've seen from masters CS grads towards more talented coders with no degree was pretty epic at my last company.

by JPKab 5y ago

Well said. Anecdotally, the level of resentment I've seen from masters CS grads towards more talented coders with no degree was pretty epic at my last company. I've also seen this get pretty ugly in the ML/deep learning community between the credentialed academics and the practitioners.

annoyingnoob 5y ago
I don't have a college degree. Though I usually get jobs where I'm surrounded by people that have degrees or advanced degrees. I can recall a particular startup where I was the only person without a degree, the person that I worked for had an advanced degree. This person that I worked for always resented that I made about the same income without a degree. There is no way I could have ever reached management in that company without a degree - no matter how qualified or good, because of elitist bias.
- beaner 5y ago
  > This person that I worked for always resented that I made about the same income without a degree. How do you know this was the reason, or even that they resented you at all?
  - annoyingnoob 5y ago
    The HR person let it slip to me one day that I was making $5k less than my boss. My boss had made comments about my salary given my position. We wanted to hire an Engineering Manager from outside the company, this person would not hire someone very qualified because he lacked a degree. I mentioned something in passing one day, joking, saying I wanted to be the CTO - this person told me 'fine, go get a PhD'. No one was going to advance to be equal to or beyond this person without an advanced degree.
zozbot234 5y ago
You also see a lot of the opposite, tbh. Resentment in general tends to be largely driven by personal attitudes, regardless of one's actual circumstances.
- toxik 5y ago
  Very true, and both sides are justified in their attitudes. You’re not necessarily better because you went to grad school, but you might have learned some things that you wouldn’t know if you just programmed cool stuff. I find two expressions of this: over reverent attitude bordering on complete deference, and stubborn rejection of anything that sounds vaguely complicated.
api 5y ago
I'm a self-taught coder, and I'll never forget years ago someone with an MIT degree turning to me with a look of mild indignation and saying "how do you know this stuff?"
908B64B197 5y ago
> from masters CS grads towards more talented coders with no degree A CS masters isn't necessarily signaling the right things [0] [1]. Especially if it's a "terminal" master (and not someone dropping out of a PhD). > I've also seen this get pretty ugly in the ML/deep learning community between the credentialed academics and the practitioners. Lots of institutions embarked on the ML bandwagon, but unless the credentialed academics have connections/worked at a serious lab, I much prefer practitioners. [0] https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-computer-science-from-a-m-s-in-computer-science-when-it-comes-to-recruiting/ https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-compu... [1] https://ozwrites.com/masters/ https://ozwrites.com/masters/

by JPKab 5y ago

annoyingnoob 5y ago

I don't have a college degree. Though I usually get jobs where I'm surrounded by people that have degrees or advanced degrees. I can recall a particular startup where I was the only person without a degree, the person that I worked for had an advanced degree. This person that I worked for always resented that I made about the same income without a degree. There is no way I could have ever reached management in that company without a degree - no matter how qualified or good, because of elitist bias.

beaner 5y ago
> This person that I worked for always resented that I made about the same income without a degree. How do you know this was the reason, or even that they resented you at all?
- annoyingnoob 5y ago
  The HR person let it slip to me one day that I was making $5k less than my boss. My boss had made comments about my salary given my position. We wanted to hire an Engineering Manager from outside the company, this person would not hire someone very qualified because he lacked a degree. I mentioned something in passing one day, joking, saying I wanted to be the CTO - this person told me 'fine, go get a PhD'. No one was going to advance to be equal to or beyond this person without an advanced degree.

zozbot234 5y ago

You also see a lot of the opposite, tbh. Resentment in general tends to be largely driven by personal attitudes, regardless of one's actual circumstances.

toxik 5y ago
Very true, and both sides are justified in their attitudes. You’re not necessarily better because you went to grad school, but you might have learned some things that you wouldn’t know if you just programmed cool stuff. I find two expressions of this: over reverent attitude bordering on complete deference, and stubborn rejection of anything that sounds vaguely complicated.

api 5y ago

I'm a self-taught coder, and I'll never forget years ago someone with an MIT degree turning to me with a look of mild indignation and saying "how do you know this stuff?"

908B64B197 5y ago

> from masters CS grads towards more talented coders with no degree A CS masters isn't necessarily signaling the right things [0] [1]. Especially if it's a "terminal" master (and not someone dropping out of a PhD). > I've also seen this get pretty ugly in the ML/deep learning community between the credentialed academics and the practitioners. Lots of institutions embarked on the ML bandwagon, but unless the credentialed academics have connections/worked at a serious lab, I much prefer practitioners. [0] https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-computer-science-from-a-m-s-in-computer-science-when-it-comes-to-recruiting/ https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-compu... [1] https://ozwrites.com/masters/ https://ozwrites.com/masters/