9 ms·
Windows 11 laptops will require front facing camera in 2023
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- johnduhart 5y ago> It seems our completely untethered tumble into the world of 1984 led by Big Brother and every all-seeing eye on the planet, with Microsoft pushing us through a new window and into a new era with Windows 11. Ah yes, that's absolutely what it is, not an attempt to match what is already standard on every Apple laptop.
- cma 5y agoSame end result.
- MikeUt 5y agoBut better not let consumers decide whether they want to "match Apple" and still access the Windows ecosystem, just in case.
- nucleardog 5y agoMost of the consumers are not making informed purchasing decisions. In the face of that, setting some minimal standards for OEMs is a reasonable step for Microsoft to protect and improve their brand. Average people don't generally attribute the quality of the products to Dell, Acer, Lenovo, etc, they generally just lump it all together as "Windows" or "PCs". When they go out shopping purely on price and buy a $400 laptop only to get it home and find out a few months later they can't video call with their kids with their "new" laptop, they don't think "Wow, that's on me for buying such a cheap laptop!" or "I can't believe Dell sold me something that doesn't even have a webcam!". They think "Wow PCs suck maybe my friend was right and I should just buy an Apple." People consistently compare a $400 Windows laptop to a $2500 MBP to say "PCs suck!" or a $300 Android to a $1400 iPhone to say "Androids suck!". Ensuring some minimum baseline of quality there is generally going to help Microsoft's brand and, frankly, the average uninformed consumer. There's nothing stopping OEMs still shipping absolute garbage hardware and just putting Ubuntu on it so everyone can complain that Linux sucks instead. There's nothing stopping you from taking that and putting Windows on it yourself. There's nothing stopping you just putting a piece of tape over the webcam.
- MikeUt 5y ago> a reasonable step for Microsoft to protect and improve their brand. That MS chose to mandate cameras instead of hardware off-switches or disabled Management Engine backdoors to "protect their brand" should tell you everything.
- nucleardog 5y agoThat the vast majority of consumers care whether they can video chat with their family, and not whether there's some non-free microcode running in their computer? I would assume that is self-evident.
- rvz 5y agoWell this is the Windows Laptop OEM’s chance to do it better than Apple and finally put a hardware switch for the camera and microphone . A green dot next to the camera is not good enough.
- vel0city 5y agoSeveral models have shutters for the camera. There have been a few generations of Thinkpads where the entire camera slides inside the bezel. No physical microphone switch but there is a firmware level mic mute keyboard combination and associated LED.
- WalterBright 5y ago> firmware level is not secure. Must have physical switch, not software.
- ianhawes 5y agoAsk anyone in the intelligence community. Web cams are great for blackmail, microphones are great for actionable intelligence.
- jagger27 5y agoIf that green LED is physically connected with the power to the camera then that's plenty good enough for me. How could it possibly be bypassed with software? Even if a physical switch was added I'd still want them to keep the LED for the convenience of it. I do agree though that a physical hardware switch is better, especially for the microphone. I see no real reason why Apple couldn't put a parts bin iPhone mute toggle switch on the side of a MacBook. I don't think it would look out of place.
- pmontra 5y agoTo really trust the LED we should open the screen and check if the LED is actually connected to the power line of the camera. Of course we should check the hardware switch too.
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- TheCoreh 5y agoIs there a significant share of the laptop market that ships _without_ webcams? I haven't seen a single laptop manufactured in the past 15 years that doesn't have a webcam built-in. The actual good news is requiring it to be HD, so the days of potato quality video calls are soon over. Besides, a lot of manufacturers are now shipping cameras with physical covers, I expect that trend to continue
- BitwiseFool 5y agoIt's a matter of principle. Yes, the majority of laptops do have a front facing camera and that probably won't be an issue for the majority of consumers. This is just an opening to put more and more biometric stuff into the OS itself. How will Windows 11 behave if I disable the camera via software? Will it just turn it back on? Will it throw an error or refuse to work if I tape over it? These implications are what actually concern me.
- selectodude 5y agoIf you put a piece of tape over it I imagine Windows Hello will stop working.
- necrotic_comp 5y agoI thought the same, but my Rog Zephyrus doesn't have a webcam built in by default and it's available at big box stores.
- Freak_NL 5y agoDon't worry. There will always be people in your Jitsi/Zoom/Teams/Meat/Whatever who will hurt your ears (or be nearly inaudible), drop out randomly despite nobody else having any issues at all, or have really crappy video. Or, any combination of the aforementioned. It's some kind of fundamental law of digital meetings.
- hules 5y agoAsus zephyrus G14 don't have a webcam.
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- mikub 5y agoI really like working with Windows10 and would also be very happy to use Windows11, but all this telemtry stuff(which I understand partially why they are doing some of it) and strange decisions like this are making it really hard not to switch to Linux.
- 411111111111111 5y agoDon't worry, the really obnoxious stuff will be part of teams, so no need to upgrade to get the experience at work
- ocdtrekkie 5y agoMany corporate laptop models build a physical camera cover into the laptop lid now. Microsoft clearly wants to ensure everyone with a laptop has the option to join video calls, which makes sense, but it's getting easier on new models to block this when intended. Most Windows laptops sold today already have a front facing camera, and I expect camera covers to become as standard as cameras are.
- roblabla 5y agoMost of those camera caps don't disable the mic though, which can also be problematic on its own...
- sxg 5y agoAre you implying that even a microphone is too much of an invasion of privacy? There’s a trade off between security and usability, and while that balance is different for every user, this one seems a bit of an outlier. How would this even work in practice? I’m assuming a switch to disable the mic isn’t viable since if you can’t trust the mic, you can’t trust a switch. I’m not even sure a mic cover would actually work. The only solution seems to be to create a laptop without a microphone and just use an external mic. Is there a market for that? It seems inconvenient enough to lose the mainstream market. Video chatting is a common enough use case for the corporate market that this just seems infeasible.
- tomjen3 5y agoThere is no reason to assume that you can't trust a switch. A microphone is, essentially, available to every program installed on the computer at any time without the switch. Plus adding a physical switch is not hard or expensive. You can even integrate it with a switch for the webcam.
- epistasis 5y agoA hardware switch is something that can be trusted. However a software microphone switch can't. Having a physical, visible, mute button for a laptop would be an incredible boon to video conferencing. Rather than having to shuffle through all the awful, terrible, hard to decipher button for "mute" on the plethora of poor visual designs of video conference UIs, a clear and physical button on the laptop would be sooo helpful. No more finding the mouse cursor, navigating it to the button and clicking, you can just move your finger directly to the button on the keyboard that controls whether people can hear you. Given the huge number of audio faux pas from mute buttons, I'm surprised nobody has added one of these yet...
- afavour 5y ago> It seems our completely untethered tumble into the world of 1984 led by Big Brother and every all-seeing eye on the planet, with Microsoft pushing us through a new window and into a new era with Windows 11. What a load of hyperbolic junk this is. Microsoft is trying to ensure consistency for people that buy Windows laptops. We can debate whether that is a smart move or not, but descending into 1984 fear-baiting is just nonsense.
- simonh 5y agoIndeed, fortunately duct tape exists.
- dmix 5y agoOr plastic camera sliders that stick perfectly within the black part of a macbook pro screen (or similar I'm guessing). Only a few dollars on Amazon. Putting tape on camera's leaves residue and we all get stuck in Zoom calls these days.
- WalterBright 5y ago> residue Put a small piece of clean paper over the lens to protect it, then tape over that.
- davesmylie 5y agoblue or green masking tape works great - dirt cheap and designed to pull off cleanly. I've had some on my macbook camera for going on 8 years now - pulls off for zoom calls and then goes straight back on.
- bigpeopleareold 5y agoOr if you can, physically removing the camera - but then, will Windows complain? :)
- phkahler 5y agoUntil they require face-ID. Then another percentage of people will not bother to block the camera. For those calling the 1984 references over the top fear mongering, I'd just ask one question: Why does Microsoft even care about users having a camera? When you answer that, I'd probably respond with "Nope, not a strong enough reason to be a requirement for Windows, try again." Rinse and and repeat. It's happening in China, it's happening at Amazon...
- tibbon 5y agoI wonder how that's going to work for government security agencies. I remember at one point touring the Pentagon (many years ago) and them saying how they explicitly disallowed devices with cameras in certain areas. No idea if that's changed, but I could see Microsoft needing to have a separate security-version of the OS, or losing a lot of government clients.
- nonameiguess 5y agoIt hasn't changed, and while it may not be common in high-security, but unclassified facilities, in classified facilities you're not allowed to even bring in any sort of recording devices, audio or video, nor anything radio-enabled. Exceptions are made for secure teleconferencing, obviously, but that is never enabled in a general-purpose computer. To participate in a meeting remotely, you either need to use a secure phone or a single-purpose teleconferencing device in a dedicated meeting room, not a video and voice recorder at your personal workstation. Disabling and removing any recording capability at the hardware level is a requirement before you can even bring a laptop into the facility. Microsoft is well aware of this, and whatever this requirement actually is will definitely not apply to enterprise versions of Windows for this reason. It is possible to get some exceptions to policy. My wife has hearing aids with radio capability, for instance. But they needed to be audited, and she had to prove they were 1) medically necessary for her job, and 2) the radio protocol only worked with the vendor's own devices and couldn't call out to something like a Bluetooth or WiFi receiver.
- speeder 5y agoI am still on Win7 because I hate Win10 telemetry (MS tried to shove in 7 too, but in 7 it can be removed entirely, not just disabled). Windows 11 is shaping itself to be extra-special regarding that, unless my workplace requires it I believe I will just stick with Linux after whatever reason happens force me to stop using Win7. My wife computer is already Linux-only, no dual-boot.
- haunter 5y agoHow is using Win 7 which hasn't got any security updates since 2020 January better? I mean might as well switch to Linux now because basically you are just cutting the tree under yourself
- MisterTea 5y ago> How is using Win 7 which hasn't got any security updates since 2020 January better? Security updates do not prevent software from running.
- tmottabr 5y agoextended support goes until Jan 2023 if you have a contract for it.. since op indicate this likely being a work laptop they might have it..
- bugfix 5y agoI think it has been over 10 years since I've seen a laptop without a webcam. Even the long dead "netbooks" had front facing cameras.
- Sparkyte 5y agoASUS Zephyrus G14 has no webcam and I like it like that.
- Santosh83 5y agoI mean... is this a requirement for "Windows logo certified" laptops (they used to be a thing some years back, not sure if that is still the case), or will it be a requirement for the successful installation and functioning of Windows 11 on any laptop? If the former, then I don't see the big fuss, but if the latter, then no thanks. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
- dstaley 5y agoIt'll be a requirement for OEMs, not for consumers. OEMs already have a list of requirements they have to meet in order to sell Windows devices. For example, for the last several years it's been a requirement that OEMs include a TPM in devices.
- arduinomancer 5y agoStupidness of this requirement aside are there any laptops you can buy now days without front facing cameras? Can't recall seeing any
- Synaesthesia 5y agoYeah a few gaming laptops don't have them on, reviews of them usually comment that it's unusual as streaming games these days is popular, but there you have it.
- senectus1 5y agooh yeah for sure. Toshiba do a heap.
- MattGaiser 5y agoWhat does "require" mean? It won't install? Microsoft won't put its sticker on it?
- sslayer 5y agoThe requirement is most likely facial logon with a camera being the prerequisite.
- GekkePrutser 5y agoWhy not let the consumer decide. But anyway if it comes with a cover it's fine
- comeonseriously 5y agoMicrosoft makes its Windows revenue from licensing to OEMs (and commercial), so of course they want people to buy new hardware.
- hhh 5y agoThis feels like FUD. What laptop from a major OEM ships with Windows in $CURRENTYEAR without a webcam?
- tukana 5y agoHow this article draw a conclusion that front facing webcam is a mandatory requirement for Windows 11?
- kroltan 5y agoIt doesn't, it's just a bullshit clickbait made to garner traffic to the publisher.
- thrower123 5y agoIt's ludicrous to imagine that Windows 11, at the operating system level, requires a webcam. Obviously Windows 11 is going to be installed on desktops and workstations, and it's going to be installed on VMs. Microsoft mandating that hardware OEMs not ship garbage laptops that don't have webcams makes a lot of sense. Otherwise there are going to be complaints that the integrated Teams video calling they're advertising as a big feature doesn't work.
- fortran77 5y agoOh please. Microsoft is trying to ensure a base level of functionality. If they didn’t ship with cameras, mac fanboys would mock them as they did in the old “switch” commercial when they taped a camera to the top of a computer.
- daxuak 5y agoWhile it's true that almost all recent laptops have built-in webcam and most of the time they don't break themselves out of blue, I'd rather have the OS to not care about whether I do have one. None of microsoft's business if I can't/don't need to join a zoom or whatever on my pc.
- addingnumbers 5y agoThe OS doesn't care, Microsoft does. All indications so far are that it's enforced contractually, not by the software itself. This is just a concession that must be made before you're permitted to pre-install Windows for your customers.
- daxuak 5y agoW11 and Microsoft is kinda interchangeble in this conversaion imo, since no other party could pose direct influence on the W11 roll out. If this term stays in OEM realm then all is good, webcams are already everywhere. However W10 hasn't been pleasant in terms of tracking and telemetry and I find it hard to have good faith in W11.
- addingnumbers 5y agoAgreed, I couched my correction with "so far" because it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the OS eventually begins enforcing it, or if it already does and they've been misleading.
- spywaregorilla 5y agoIf I'm following this correctly, this isn't about the OS requiring a camera, it's about microsoft not letting laptop manufacturers sell "substandard" machines with windows. You can almost certainly install the OS on a laptop without a camera, or a desktop, yourself. Makes sense to me. People bundle their hardware experience with what they consider a windows machine vs. an apple machine.
- daxuak 5y agoMacs used to have crappy webcams and most people did not care though. Webcam is hardly a differenciating factor and recent laptops already include them anyway.
- spywaregorilla 5y agoWebcams weren't as useful in the past. Webcams aren't a differentiating factor, but their absence is big problem for many users.
- mkl95 5y agoCan a manufacturer use "duck typing" for this? Something like an electronic component that looks like a front facing camera to the OS but is completely blind.
- pmontra 5y agoI've been using a camera cover for years. A piece of bent black cardboard first, a professional and almost invisible plastic slider now. There are so many of them on Amazon, searching for laptop camera cover slide. And I don't even use Windows. I run Ubuntu but I want to be sure that the camera doesn't see anything when it's supposed to be off.
- WalterBright 5y agoMy webcam has a hinged lens cap (yay) but no way to disable the mike (boo). So I still unplug it when not in use.
- Zeik0s 5y ago> TPM 2.0 module requirement of Windows 11 acting as hardware-level DRM well, seems like someone didn't understand, what a TPM module can actually do and what it's used for.
- sto_hristo 5y agoWhile this is pretty meh compared to the other requirements, it clearly shows that MS can disregard all reason and consideration and just YOLO it. This is what lack of competition leads to. They can literally come up with the most absurd and contrived things their brains they can think of while on acid and the ones on the receiving end can only shrug it.
- rambojazz 5y agoWhat's the source for this claim?