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In Karachi, hot weather is normal but 44°C feels like you’re going to die
- 3327 5y agoStop complaining about the hot weather please and focus on more pressing global issues. Karachi has had 44 C before like many other places. In fact, mean temp of Karachi is 32 C in June - which is not Low at all. https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/pakistan/karachi/climate https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/pakistan/karachi/climate and 68% percentile high temp is 35 C. The highest temp on record for Karachi was nearly 48 C - in 1938. For sure 44 C is not Cool - but also not worth a Guardian article for a place that has a mean temperature of 32 and many days a year above 40 C. From a personal note - I am writing this as I sit @ 42C and I am not dying. Heck - my laptop probably does though...
- OJFord 5y agoThis comment was dead, and I expect it to be unpopular (the sentiment always is) - but I'm vouching for it because by linking some data it's at least as substantive as the submission, regardless of whether it's right or wrong.
- 3327 5y agoThank you - which was precisely the point I was trying to make. further the 1938 high is also fact checked but not linked. https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/323470-when-did-karachi-witness-highest-ever-temperature https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/323470-when-did-karachi-wi... My goal is to highlight some of the echo-chamber bias on HN. One "interestingly dead" comment at a time.
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- long_time_gone 5y agoThis article isn’t about the temperature reaching 44 C for a single day. Where you are sitting in 42 C weather, do you still have electricity? Because that’s mostly what the article is mostly about.
- zohch 5y ago> This article isn’t about the temperature reaching 44 C for a single day. Well this is the only actual data point it makes reference to, it links to a study which makes claims about 50 years in the future, which may contain some data, but that is thrice removed if it does.
- long_time_gone 5y ago==Well this is the only actual data point it makes reference to== I don't see anywhere in the article where it makes this reference, it's just in the headline. The article actually says "When it’s above 44C it feels like you’re going to die – I’m not making that up." ==Now it goes above 40C on an average day== A reference to the consistency of the heat as opposed to the extremes of the heat.
- leto_ii 5y ago> Stop complaining about the hot weather please and focus on more pressing global issues. What would those more pressing issues be? Soon enough many very populated places in the world will be unlivable. Even now the reality described in the piece is shocking - 330 GBP for a month's worth of power is way more than what I pay in the Netherlands during the coldest winter months. I imagine the vast majority of Pakistanis will never be able to afford the amount of electricity needed to cool their houses down to a bearable temperature.
- cr1895 5y agoThe issue isn't so much the absolute temperature as much as the combination of temperature and humidity. A wet-bulb temp of 35C can be fatal. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/how-hot-is-too-hot-for-humans-understanding-wet-bulb-temperatures-1.6088415 https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/how-hot-is-too-hot-for-human... According to this site, there are numerous areas of Pakistan with a wet-bulb temp well north of 35C...that seems extremely dire, and should probably not be flippantly dismissed because other places are hotter. https://meteologix.com/pk/observations/pakistan/wet-bulb-temperature/20210706-0900z.html https://meteologix.com/pk/observations/pakistan/wet-bulb-tem...
- breitling 5y agoUnfortunately, this seems to be the new norm. Even in Canada, we are breaking records for heat. Temperatures have reached 49 C / 120 F Despite that, I believe Canada will be a major recipient of these climate refugees when places just get too hot to live in. That'll also be an option reserved for the privileged.
- lmilcin 5y agoThe problem is that you can't easily move hundreds of millions of people. When the weather becomes lethal, these people are going to die. The only realistic solution is building infrastructure to let people live through the worst of the weather. If it is as bad as it is described in the article, I worry about long term prospects of stable economy and progress, what with people occupied mostly with trying to survive another hellish day.
- Fricken 5y agoI think if hundreds of millions of people were faced with unliveable conditions, they would be strongly incentivized to move themselves. Also, it would more likely be a migration that plays out over the span of, say, a generation. In 2020 it was estimated that 55 million people were displaced due to climate and weather events, more than 3 times the number displaced by conflict and violence. So the mass migration is already well under way.
- lmilcin 5y agoI think you do not understand. When a heat wave comes the people will not be able to "move" themselves. Most of these people don't have means to do so in best of times.
- Fricken 5y agoMost people have feet. They move by putting one foot in front of the other. People have travelled all over the world using this ancient technique.
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- impostervt 5y agoThat's 111 degrees Fahrenheit for the Imperialists.
- nickserv 5y agoAre you descring the system of measures or the foreign policy?
- imtringued 5y agoNo matter how bearable the current climate is, it will only get less bearable.
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- signal11 5y agoIf I understand this right, this is not just the heat, but the humidity as well. The UK Daily Telegraph had an article[1] about how nearby Jacobabad crossed the 35C wet bulb reading threshold, at which point — according to the article — the body can no longer cool itself. I assume Karachi isn’t that bad yet. A cursory Google search showed a wet bulb reading of 27C for Karachi — still very hot but not life-threateningly so. In fact, the Telegraph article notes that those who can afford it spend the summer in Quetta or Karachi. Of course this article also focuses on the cost of electricity and air conditioning, which is a major factor as well. [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/hotter-human-body-can-handle-pakistan-city-broils-worlds-highest/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people...
- lmilcin 5y agoThe issue with wet bulb temperature is even worse. You don't need to have an average to hit anywhere close to it. Just one single event, wave of temperature over 36 degrees is most likely going to kill millions of people if it hits densely populated area with people having no infrastructure to cool themselves. And no, spraying with water will not help, by very definition.
- bellyfullofbac 5y agoI guess jumping into a body of water which has a cooler temperature would still help? Jumping into water which is 36 degrees or warmer wouldn't.
- tibbydudeza 5y agoI live where it is 30C during summer (low humidity) and about 10C during winter - Mediterranean climate thanks to proximity to the two oceans (Atlantic/Indian) which differs in temperature. One of the main reasons why I would never move to another part of the country.
- bloopernova 5y agoThe tone of so many articles and comments online seems to be "Shrug, not much we can do about it". Or pedantically arguing about minutia. Between this and the pandemic response in so many places, I'm not so sure humanity is going to be around in a century or two. The rich will live in climate controlled domes on remote islands or ships, while billions of people starve, overheat, or fight over scraps. The global "elite" rich have a serious blind-spot though: They never seem to realize that they rely on a massive robust web of interconnected humanity to support their wealth and privilege. From billions of farmers, miners, craftspeople, teachers, to workers of all types, the global rich live at the top of a massive pyramid of humanity. Makes me wonder if the person who is desperately trying to bootstrap a society on Mars has the right idea... Sorry for a depressing comment. It's sobering to know that despite having another 50 years or so of life left to live, I will probably die in a food riot or from home invaders looking for water and food.
- Santosh83 5y agoIt's a race to build self-repairing bots. Once the wealthy have it, they can just go ahead and let most people die.
- inter_netuser 5y agoself-repairing is only a small part. bots would have to be just as useful/cost-effective as poor humans. Apparently manual labour at $2/hr is cheaper than robots still.
- klyrs 5y agoIf the environment is too hot for a human to work outside, the labor cost goes to infinity as the work will not be completed even if somebody takes the money
- inter_netuser 5y agowe have remote controlled robots even today for such things. still requires a human operator.
- zohch 5y ago> And it’s getting worse. Now it goes above 40C on an average day, and the intensity of the heat is different to when I was growing up in the city; the sunlight’s brighter, more piercing. This links to: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/05/one-billion-people-will-live-in-insufferable-heat-within-50-years-study https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/05/one-bill... Titled: One billion people will live in insufferable heat within 50 years – study Can't they just link to historical temperature records for Karachi rather?
- Tepix 5y agoRecommended reading about the topic of climate change and wet bulb temperatures: Kim Stanley Robinson's novel "The Ministry for the Future". Here's the blurb from goodreads: Established in 2025, the purpose of the new organization was simple: To advocate for the world's future generations and to protect all living creatures, present and future. It soon became known as the Ministry for the Future, and this is its story. From legendary science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson comes a vision of climate change unlike any ever imagined. Told entirely through fictional eye-witness accounts, The Ministry For The Future is a masterpiece of the imagination, the story of how climate change will affect us all over the decades to come. Its setting is not a desolate, post-apocalyptic world, but a future that is almost upon us - and in which we might just overcome the extraordinary challenges we face. It is a novel both immediate and impactful, desperate and hopeful in equal measure, and it is one of the most powerful and original books on climate change ever written.
- CodeGlitch 5y agoAre we going to have to start living underground? I went to Beer Caves [0] in the UK recently, where I was told that no matter the outside temperature it was always a consistent temperature within the caves (which was great for mushroom farming in the caves). Obviously living in a cave is not great, but properly built underground habitats? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Quarry_Caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Quarry_Caves
- signal11 5y agoUnderground does sound promising but doing it at scale for a large number of people… I wonder how viable that is, and if it’ll cause structural issues at the surface. Also in this specific case they may need dehumidifiers. The other option is heat pumps that exchange heat with the ground. These are slowly becoming more popular in the UK, for instance, but aren’t cheap.
- klyrs 5y agoFlooding is a major problem with underground construction. Not the best as the ocean level rises. Air circulation is also a mess, because CO2 is heavier than oxygen. Evacuating a tall building is relatively easy; most people can go downstairs without a huge issue. Fleeing upstairs, on the other hand, is something fewer people can do. And once you get a blockade of people who can't make it, even the healthiest can get trapped.
- dennis_jeeves 5y agoUnless I see resonantly well documented rising temperatures, I'm not inclined to believe that there are climate extremes any different from what are normal variations. ( and no this does not mean we get a free pass to mess up the environment, which IMO need to be cleaned up big time). People have very short memories, and often it is the _current_ summer/winter that appears to be the harshest to them, not the one that happened 20 years ago. Memories are even more shorter when it is generational.
- kazoomonger 5y agoThere are well-documented rising temperatures. TBH, it sounds like you've made up your mind and are unwilling to examine the mounds of evidence that exist to support that. This visualization from NASA directly contradicts any notion of a generational memory explanation: https://climate.nasa.gov/interactives/climate-time-machine/ https://climate.nasa.gov/interactives/climate-time-machine/ As a bonus, it also demonstrates that climate != weather. Even as the whole map is turning red, there's still a few cooler spots in any given year. There's just less and less.
- dennis_jeeves 5y agoWhat I'm also skeptical is about the "mounds of evidence". And no, I didn't start out as skeptic decades back. Check back my comment (the one that you responded to) some years from now and reach out to me if needed. I skimmed through your other comments on other subjects, you'll probably get there where I currently am. A weird response to your response I know...
- prawnsalad 5y agoOut of curiosity, what makes you skeptical about the evidence?
- dennis_jeeves 5y ago- It seems the debate is about 0.8°C temperature rise since 1880. The figure of 0.8°C in my opinion is not statistically significant for various reasons including thermometer inaccuracies, and normal variations of temperature. There seems to be a general agreement of increase in CO2. It appears that the most significant greenhouse ‘gas’ is water vapor, about 98%. I got these figures from a talk by a noble prize winner, who got around to checking the published figures. - Statistics can be variously interpreted unless there is a huge significant differences. The 'significant' part is completely subjective. - Media and govt need to keep the masses engaged on distractions with the news. If govt/people were truly serious about climate (or what ever is the correct terminology) change. They would be making radical changes not tiny changes. Example of a big change work places can be moved to places where people can walk to work. example of tiny feel good change that does nothing: separate recycle form other trash. - Changing narrative from govt, in the 60s it was global cooling, which changed to global warming, and is now labeled as climate change. Notice that most people who take up these 'causes' are young. They have no any knowledge of what the narrative was in the 60s. - In addition to manipulating numbers, all numbers can be cooked up with impunity, this is true for corporates, scientific establishments, govts. Barring exceptions there are enough incentives to lie, and generally disincentives if one were to tell the truth. Note I'm not claiming that there is no climate change, there is not way for me or you to know that. I do know for a fact that the environment is indeed messed up big time. The smell/taste of air/food/water/products is telling. I don't think this is debatable. The environment should be first priority and perhaps the climate change will take of itself.