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> So he changed langes without checking for traffic The article says no such thing. You could just as easily interpret the events as: "He put on his turn sign

by smt88 5y ago

> So he changed langes without checking for traffic The article says no such thing. You could just as easily interpret the events as: "He put on his turn signal, which Autopilot ignored." A human driver should have been driving defensively and realized they needed to give the person space. A human driver usually would have hit the brake as soon as they saw a turn signal.

ReptileMan 5y ago
Does turn signal give you right of way in US? It usually is indication that you will switch lanes, but is there any rule that forces the drivers in the lane to be switched to accommodate you?
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  Not from the US so don't know what the rules say, but I do agree with the parent's comment. "Driving defensively" doesn't mean "give them the right of way". It means that if they put on the blinker, they're probably thinking of changing lanes even though it may not be safe to do so (and don't have the right of way). It's the type of situation where it's better to be safe than right.
- walkedaway 5y ago
  No, it doesn't give you right of way in any state in the US. But it doesn't stop drivers in the Bay Area from thinking it does.
Dylan16807 5y ago
> The article says no such thing. If you change lanes on a freeway, and a vehicle is coming up behind you at normal freeway speeds, the only way for you to be surprised by it is if you didn't properly check for traffic. > You could just as easily interpret the events as: "He put on his turn signal, which Autopilot ignored." It's both. He didn't check properly and Autopilot ignored the turn signal. > A human driver should have been driving defensively and realized they needed to give the person space. I suppose, but if you're in a crash and your argument is that the other driver should have been defensive then you're basically admitting you caused it. (in situations with two drivers and no mechanical failure) > A human driver usually would have hit the brake as soon as they saw a turn signal. "Usually" I'd agree is true, but lots of drivers would expect to pass and then let them change lanes behind.
- danso 5y ago
  It's not just that the Tesla driver ignored the turn signal, but it also ignored traffic conditions. Left lane traffic had slowed down enough that the Tesla is seen passing 2 cars on their right before hitting the truck. California law puts responsibility on all drivers to be drive at a "reasonable or prudent" speed given the conditions. Maintaining a speed where you're quickly passing cars on the left and right — and not slowing down at all despite a vehicle signaling for 3 seconds and then fully being in your lane for about 1 second — is arguably not "reasonable or prudent". https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=22350 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    I don't think the speed they were passing other cars was unreasonable. My best estimate is slightly above 50 for the white car, versus the tesla going 69/70. Not slowing down for the signal is bad behavior but I don't know if you're obligated to slow down for a signal and it's not really a driving speed issue. Someone signalling isn't a road condition.
- fouc 5y ago
  It's better to assume he did check properly. The problem is the car behind didn't slow down AT ALL, that would be VERY surprising, leading to the last second attempt to swerve.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    It's possible, but if you enter a lane in a way that requires the car behind you to brake, that's just as bad as not checking. And just letting off the accelerator right after seeing the turn signal would not have slowed the Tesla down enough to avoid a collision, that situation needed braking. Also, a driver on the freeway continuing to go the same speed should not be "VERY surprising"!
    - fouc 5y ago

by smt88 5y ago

ReptileMan 5y ago

Does turn signal give you right of way in US? It usually is indication that you will switch lanes, but is there any rule that forces the drivers in the lane to be switched to accommodate you?

vladvasiliu 5y ago
Not from the US so don't know what the rules say, but I do agree with the parent's comment. "Driving defensively" doesn't mean "give them the right of way". It means that if they put on the blinker, they're probably thinking of changing lanes even though it may not be safe to do so (and don't have the right of way). It's the type of situation where it's better to be safe than right.
walkedaway 5y ago
No, it doesn't give you right of way in any state in the US. But it doesn't stop drivers in the Bay Area from thinking it does.

Dylan16807 5y ago

> The article says no such thing. If you change lanes on a freeway, and a vehicle is coming up behind you at normal freeway speeds, the only way for you to be surprised by it is if you didn't properly check for traffic. > You could just as easily interpret the events as: "He put on his turn signal, which Autopilot ignored." It's both. He didn't check properly and Autopilot ignored the turn signal. > A human driver should have been driving defensively and realized they needed to give the person space. I suppose, but if you're in a crash and your argument is that the other driver should have been defensive then you're basically admitting you caused it. (in situations with two drivers and no mechanical failure) > A human driver usually would have hit the brake as soon as they saw a turn signal. "Usually" I'd agree is true, but lots of drivers would expect to pass and then let them change lanes behind.

danso 5y ago
It's not just that the Tesla driver ignored the turn signal, but it also ignored traffic conditions. Left lane traffic had slowed down enough that the Tesla is seen passing 2 cars on their right before hitting the truck. California law puts responsibility on all drivers to be drive at a "reasonable or prudent" speed given the conditions. Maintaining a speed where you're quickly passing cars on the left and right — and not slowing down at all despite a vehicle signaling for 3 seconds and then fully being in your lane for about 1 second — is arguably not "reasonable or prudent". https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=22350 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  I don't think the speed they were passing other cars was unreasonable. My best estimate is slightly above 50 for the white car, versus the tesla going 69/70. Not slowing down for the signal is bad behavior but I don't know if you're obligated to slow down for a signal and it's not really a driving speed issue. Someone signalling isn't a road condition.
fouc 5y ago
It's better to assume he did check properly. The problem is the car behind didn't slow down AT ALL, that would be VERY surprising, leading to the last second attempt to swerve.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  It's possible, but if you enter a lane in a way that requires the car behind you to brake, that's just as bad as not checking. And just letting off the accelerator right after seeing the turn signal would not have slowed the Tesla down enough to avoid a collision, that situation needed braking. Also, a driver on the freeway continuing to go the same speed should not be "VERY surprising"!
  - fouc 5y ago