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Can the ship company sue the Suez Canal Authority for their pilots grounding the ship? It seems the Suez Canal Authority has washed their hands of any wrongdoi

by ww520 5y ago

Can the ship company sue the Suez Canal Authority for their pilots grounding the ship? It seems the Suez Canal Authority has washed their hands of any wrongdoing.

snypher 5y ago
Generally speaking the captain remains in control of the vessel and just receives local knowledge from the pilot.
- ww520 5y ago
  Yes, by the agreement the shipping company has with the Suez Canal Authority, the shipping company is responsible one way or the other even if it's the pilot's fault. The buck stops at there. But the pilots are employees of the Suez Canal Authority contracted out to the ship to guide it through the canal. The shipping company is within its rights to sue the Suez Canal Authority for failing their contracted obligation. It's like when the general contractor is sued, the sub-contractor can be sued if they're the cause of the problem.
  - hkai 5y ago
    And that's when we discover that outside of the Western societies, courts don't work that way.
    - ryanlol 5y ago
      Which is why these situations are generally arbitrated in London.
nradov 5y ago
It's tough to imagine Evergreen winning an Egyptian civil court case against a local government agency. Regardless of what actually happened in the grounding incident, that's just not how things work in Egypt. And Evergreen has to maintain a working relationship with the Suez Canal Authority so that they can continue doing business.
fy20 5y ago
I'd assume the settlement prevents any further litigation. They are probably more concerned about getting the ship operating as soon as possible, as opposed to spending the next few years in court, all while the ship is impounded.
ornornor 5y ago
I remember hearing that the canals pilots are under the responsibility of the ships captain (how convenient) and so anything they do or don’t do is still the captains fault. And apparently Suez pilots are super lazy and don’t do much. « It’s a catch 22 son, the best there is »
- zaphirplane 5y ago
  What you heard or read could be a Malicious rumor or baseless statement Now someone will quote your “I heard” and the rumor transitions to known fact
  - ornornor 5y ago
    I’m aware, that’s why I said « I heard ». I feel that someone who quotes a rumor as a fact doesn’t really need to actually have seen it anywhere, they can just make it up all the same.
  - toomanybeersies 5y ago
    To give citations to GPs "I heard" > Masters are held solely responsible for all damage or accidents of whatever kind resulting from the navigation or handling of their vessels directly or indirectly by day or night. [1] And this journalist didn't seem to thing highly of the Suez Canal pilots: > Technically the pilot took command of the bridge, though the pilot we had was too busy eating his way through the entire menu, and dozing, to be particularly commanding. The second officer had to keep waking him up for instructions [2] Now obviously that's a single anecdote, but there's plenty more articles and blog posts of a similar vein. [1] https://www.seawaysmarine.com/SECTION%20%20II%20%20-%20PILOTAGE.pdf https://www.seawaysmarine.com/SECTION%20%20II%20%20-%20PILOT... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/25/suez-canal-cargo-ship-ever-given-stuck https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/25/suez-c...

by ww520 5y ago

Can the ship company sue the Suez Canal Authority for their pilots grounding the ship? It seems the Suez Canal Authority has washed their hands of any wrongdoing.

snypher 5y ago

Generally speaking the captain remains in control of the vessel and just receives local knowledge from the pilot.

ww520 5y ago
Yes, by the agreement the shipping company has with the Suez Canal Authority, the shipping company is responsible one way or the other even if it's the pilot's fault. The buck stops at there. But the pilots are employees of the Suez Canal Authority contracted out to the ship to guide it through the canal. The shipping company is within its rights to sue the Suez Canal Authority for failing their contracted obligation. It's like when the general contractor is sued, the sub-contractor can be sued if they're the cause of the problem.
- hkai 5y ago
  And that's when we discover that outside of the Western societies, courts don't work that way.
  - ryanlol 5y ago
    Which is why these situations are generally arbitrated in London.

nradov 5y ago

It's tough to imagine Evergreen winning an Egyptian civil court case against a local government agency. Regardless of what actually happened in the grounding incident, that's just not how things work in Egypt. And Evergreen has to maintain a working relationship with the Suez Canal Authority so that they can continue doing business.

fy20 5y ago

I'd assume the settlement prevents any further litigation. They are probably more concerned about getting the ship operating as soon as possible, as opposed to spending the next few years in court, all while the ship is impounded.

ornornor 5y ago

I remember hearing that the canals pilots are under the responsibility of the ships captain (how convenient) and so anything they do or don’t do is still the captains fault. And apparently Suez pilots are super lazy and don’t do much. « It’s a catch 22 son, the best there is »

zaphirplane 5y ago
What you heard or read could be a Malicious rumor or baseless statement Now someone will quote your “I heard” and the rumor transitions to known fact
- ornornor 5y ago
  I’m aware, that’s why I said « I heard ». I feel that someone who quotes a rumor as a fact doesn’t really need to actually have seen it anywhere, they can just make it up all the same.
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  To give citations to GPs "I heard" > Masters are held solely responsible for all damage or accidents of whatever kind resulting from the navigation or handling of their vessels directly or indirectly by day or night. [1] And this journalist didn't seem to thing highly of the Suez Canal pilots: > Technically the pilot took command of the bridge, though the pilot we had was too busy eating his way through the entire menu, and dozing, to be particularly commanding. The second officer had to keep waking him up for instructions [2] Now obviously that's a single anecdote, but there's plenty more articles and blog posts of a similar vein. [1] https://www.seawaysmarine.com/SECTION%20%20II%20%20-%20PILOTAGE.pdf https://www.seawaysmarine.com/SECTION%20%20II%20%20-%20PILOT... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/25/suez-canal-cargo-ship-ever-given-stuck https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/25/suez-c...