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Cuban and Musk are not savvy (crypto) investors. Just because they are rich and successful in one domain does not make them experts in others. Perhaps they are

by blunte 5y ago

Cuban and Musk are not savvy (crypto) investors. Just because they are rich and successful in one domain does not make them experts in others. Perhaps they are only surrounded by Yes Men who don’t attempt to educate them or advise when they are wrong/under-informed.

coldcode 5y ago
Billionaires can afford to be stupid since they never bet the farm.
- kibwen 5y ago
  This is why extreme wealth inequality leads to wildly inefficient markets, and eventually the collapse of the market system entirely. If there exists an actor for whom the loss of money has no consequences, then the idea that the market represents an efficient allocation of resources does not hold; it is too distorted by their whims.
Tenoke 5y ago
Cuban maybe but why Musk? If because of Doge - it's been pretty clear he's just meme-ing and not making huge bets on it but just playing around.
- peteretep 5y ago
  > it's been pretty clear Do you mean something other than “my guess is” here?
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    At minimum he's never presented it as a savvy investment the way Cuban (who talks of crypto projects specifically as an important part of his investment portfolio) has and most if not every single time he's posted about it has been in a meme/joke format.
- blunte 5y ago
  His big plunge into Bitcoin was an obvious move of ignorance given the well known energy cost of Bitcoin mining. There are other better cryptocurrencies for facilitating transactions, in terms of speed, fees, energy cost, etc. He should have known some of this before publicly jumping on the Bitcoin wagon. Then when he did clue in a bit, he made the move to Doge and chirped about how it required less energy than Bitcoin. But it is still much higher consumption and much slower transaction speed compared to something like Stellar. All this leads me to believe that nobody was educating him, and he wasn’t speeding enough time to come up to speed. I don’t expect him to be an expert in everything, but he could have at least consulted with some experts.
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    Tesla accepted Bitcoin in big part as an investment vehicle/place to park money, and there's few fast, cheap, energy-efficient cryptocurrencies that you can put $1.5B in. Hell, Stellar's market cap was what? $5B total at the time? Musk, separately from Tesla plays with Doge. As far as I know Tesla hasn't accepted or invested in Doge.
    - blunte 5y ago
      Surely he had a say in that decision, assuming that he wasn't behind it himself. So to him and/or his board, it should have been an obvious faux pas; it might as well have been an investment in coal mining stock.
- meibo 5y ago
  The people on reddit that cry about their lost life savings probably wouldn't agree.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  > he's just meme-ing and not making huge bets on it but just playing around But that’s SO much worse! He’s coaxing his followers to dash out in front of a steamroller to help him — a billionaire — pick up pennies. He’s “just playing around” with peoples’ life savings. It would be far less reprehensible if Musk held sincere but misguided beliefs in Doge but “just meme-ing” is unconscionable. Especially for someone with his exorbitant wealth to do so at the expense of those with far fewer resources.
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    Maybe it's worse, maybe it's not but the claim I was replying to doesn't apply to that. >Cuban and Musk are not savvy (crypto) investors. Just because they are rich and successful in one domain does not make them experts in others. Perhaps they are only surrounded by Yes Men who don’t attempt to educate them or advise when they are wrong/under-informed.
  - refenestrator 5y ago
    If someone worships Musk like he's a cult leader, that's on them. It's unreasonable to expect someone who's been shit posting on twitter for years to stop because people are for some reason taking him more seriously after Tesla 10x'd. He's always been a shit poster.
    - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
      The tweets of Elon Musk are official communications of Tesla, according to the SEC. That's what he got in trouble for a few years back, when he "decided" to meme himself a securities fraud violation.
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > He’s “just playing around” with peoples’ life savings Not sure how much sympathy people putting their life savings into DogeCoin deserve, on the grand total diligence of a tweet no less.
    - 5y ago
acdha 5y ago
You know that old saying about scamming an honest man? The crypto space is full of people who are hoping to cash out before the bottom falls out — losses are expected and both of them are savvy enough not to lose more than they can afford.
mcintyre1994 5y ago
I get the impression that they're not really investing on any grounds more sophisticated than a pump and dump, in that they know their own endorsement increases the price. It's not really the same thing, but it's indistinguishable if you're left holding the bag.
- blunte 5y ago
  But a billionaire presumably wouldn’t trade value of their name/brand just for small gains in a pump and dump. These guys aren’t stupid…
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    They are, though. We’re all stupid at times. Musk has accomplished much; he also libels random people as pedos and claims COVID will be gone by April 2020. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > These guys aren’t stupid I don’t think Musk’s brand suffers because of what he’s doing in DogeCoin. Crypto and the broader economy continue to have limited connection. Nobody reasonable will turn down Cuban’s business or term sheet because someone else lost money on TITAN. The networks are mutually exclusive.
  - rchaud 5y ago
    Mark Cuban is the basis of the Russ Hanneman VC character in the TV show Silicon Valley. Russ makes it a point to put his name on anything, including bespoke tequila. That itself may be a reference to Mark Cuban appearing in an episode of Entourage as himself, promoting an investment in a tequila brand.

by blunte 5y ago

coldcode 5y ago

Billionaires can afford to be stupid since they never bet the farm.

kibwen 5y ago
This is why extreme wealth inequality leads to wildly inefficient markets, and eventually the collapse of the market system entirely. If there exists an actor for whom the loss of money has no consequences, then the idea that the market represents an efficient allocation of resources does not hold; it is too distorted by their whims.

Tenoke 5y ago

Cuban maybe but why Musk? If because of Doge - it's been pretty clear he's just meme-ing and not making huge bets on it but just playing around.

peteretep 5y ago
> it's been pretty clear Do you mean something other than “my guess is” here?
- Tenoke 5y ago
  At minimum he's never presented it as a savvy investment the way Cuban (who talks of crypto projects specifically as an important part of his investment portfolio) has and most if not every single time he's posted about it has been in a meme/joke format.
blunte 5y ago
His big plunge into Bitcoin was an obvious move of ignorance given the well known energy cost of Bitcoin mining. There are other better cryptocurrencies for facilitating transactions, in terms of speed, fees, energy cost, etc. He should have known some of this before publicly jumping on the Bitcoin wagon. Then when he did clue in a bit, he made the move to Doge and chirped about how it required less energy than Bitcoin. But it is still much higher consumption and much slower transaction speed compared to something like Stellar. All this leads me to believe that nobody was educating him, and he wasn’t speeding enough time to come up to speed. I don’t expect him to be an expert in everything, but he could have at least consulted with some experts.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  Tesla accepted Bitcoin in big part as an investment vehicle/place to park money, and there's few fast, cheap, energy-efficient cryptocurrencies that you can put $1.5B in. Hell, Stellar's market cap was what? $5B total at the time? Musk, separately from Tesla plays with Doge. As far as I know Tesla hasn't accepted or invested in Doge.
  - blunte 5y ago
    Surely he had a say in that decision, assuming that he wasn't behind it himself. So to him and/or his board, it should have been an obvious faux pas; it might as well have been an investment in coal mining stock.
meibo 5y ago
The people on reddit that cry about their lost life savings probably wouldn't agree.
elliekelly 5y ago
> he's just meme-ing and not making huge bets on it but just playing around But that’s SO much worse! He’s coaxing his followers to dash out in front of a steamroller to help him — a billionaire — pick up pennies. He’s “just playing around” with peoples’ life savings. It would be far less reprehensible if Musk held sincere but misguided beliefs in Doge but “just meme-ing” is unconscionable. Especially for someone with his exorbitant wealth to do so at the expense of those with far fewer resources.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  Maybe it's worse, maybe it's not but the claim I was replying to doesn't apply to that. >Cuban and Musk are not savvy (crypto) investors. Just because they are rich and successful in one domain does not make them experts in others. Perhaps they are only surrounded by Yes Men who don’t attempt to educate them or advise when they are wrong/under-informed.
- refenestrator 5y ago
  If someone worships Musk like he's a cult leader, that's on them. It's unreasonable to expect someone who's been shit posting on twitter for years to stop because people are for some reason taking him more seriously after Tesla 10x'd. He's always been a shit poster.
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    The tweets of Elon Musk are official communications of Tesla, according to the SEC. That's what he got in trouble for a few years back, when he "decided" to meme himself a securities fraud violation.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > He’s “just playing around” with peoples’ life savings Not sure how much sympathy people putting their life savings into DogeCoin deserve, on the grand total diligence of a tweet no less.
  - 5y ago

acdha 5y ago

You know that old saying about scamming an honest man? The crypto space is full of people who are hoping to cash out before the bottom falls out — losses are expected and both of them are savvy enough not to lose more than they can afford.

mcintyre1994 5y ago

I get the impression that they're not really investing on any grounds more sophisticated than a pump and dump, in that they know their own endorsement increases the price. It's not really the same thing, but it's indistinguishable if you're left holding the bag.

blunte 5y ago
But a billionaire presumably wouldn’t trade value of their name/brand just for small gains in a pump and dump. These guys aren’t stupid…
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  They are, though. We’re all stupid at times. Musk has accomplished much; he also libels random people as pedos and claims COVID will be gone by April 2020. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > These guys aren’t stupid I don’t think Musk’s brand suffers because of what he’s doing in DogeCoin. Crypto and the broader economy continue to have limited connection. Nobody reasonable will turn down Cuban’s business or term sheet because someone else lost money on TITAN. The networks are mutually exclusive.
- rchaud 5y ago
  Mark Cuban is the basis of the Russ Hanneman VC character in the TV show Silicon Valley. Russ makes it a point to put his name on anything, including bespoke tequila. That itself may be a reference to Mark Cuban appearing in an episode of Entourage as himself, promoting an investment in a tequila brand.