6 ms·

What is so hard about not consuming a lot more food than you need? It's an honest question

anonuser123456 5y ago
We do not currently know why it is so hard. Empirically it is know to be true. But it is clear that parts of the brain involved in feeding behavior can override the cortex.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  It is hard because bad habits are hard to break. It starts in childhood for most people, and parents who foster an environment full of soda, junk food, and other sugar/carb/sat fat/salt/alcohol laden foods basically decide their kids’ future for the most part. And, of course, people use food to deal with stress. You drink water almost all the time and eat mostly green stuff, you should be fine.
  - balfirevic 5y ago
    > It starts in childhood for most people, and parents who foster an environment full of soda, junk food, and other sugar/carb/sat fat/salt/alcohol laden foods basically decide their kids’ future for the most part. Do you have a citation (preferably one that tries to control for genetics, but I'd appreciate any)?
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      It is a conjecture from my observations, and I guess I should note that I am not qualified in this field to make official statements. But I think the formula of “sleep right, eat right, excercise right, in that order” is pretty accurate. “Sleep right” contains the stress portion of being healthy. I do not even know if a proper controlled experiment could be conducted for such a complicated topic with our current technology. I just look at the habits of people I think are doing it right, and try to tease out the commonalities. Discipline is really the one trait that I guess leads to success in the above process, and probably everything else in life. Who knows how much of that is nature vs nurture.
      - anonuser123456 5y ago
        >Discipline is really the one trait that I guess leads to success in the above process, and probably everything else in life. Who knows how much of that is nature vs nurture. There was a recent EconTalk podcast about this. The author/guest is an expert in this type of behavioral change. Her opinion (which is the most informed I've read), is that discipline is not very important trait w.r.t. behavioral modification. Discipline is an active process and one must be constantly vigilant at a cortical level to execute it. Her view was situational control was the most important. With situational control, we learn to not put ourselves into situations beyond our control. For example, not buying a bag of Doritos is _MUCH_ easier than not eating a bag of Doritos sitting in front of you. Not going to a Casino is _MUCH_ easier than not gambling away all your cash for a gambling addict. Some thing for alcoholics etc.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Yes, that is what I meant by my initial post. “You are the company you keep” is one of the most true sayings, in my opinion. Unfortunately (and fortunately) that includes the parents and family one is born into. If you are lucky enough to have parents that sparingly eat Doritos or soda and do not keep it in the house, I assume that it will have a greater likelihood of rubbing off on the children.
kiba 5y ago
Speaking as someone on a weight loss journey(Yes, I am losing weight), I would say it's not about calories, but hormones. If you eat more, you will simply burn more calories as a result. It's a mistake to think your calories out is a independent variable, rather than a dependent one. Also, your basal metabolism changes in response to exercises, especially long term. Metabolism calculators don't account for this.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  TDEE and calorie input explains weight changes within a 10% error margin. > If you eat more, you will simply burn more calories as a result. That statement is false. Calorie burn is a series of factors from activity, metabolism, size, etc. Caloric intake has little direct impact outside of how it affects your weight. > Also, your basal metabolism changes in response to exercises, especially long term. Metabolism calculators don't account for this. The effect is < 10% for base metabolism alone. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16741271/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16741271/
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    So all you have to do is accurately calculate/estimate TDEE and calorie inputs? Sounds hard.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      It's about 10 mins and reading those large high contrast nutrition labels on your food. If you actually do find that too hard, pay someone for pre-portioned meals or go to a nutrionist.
      - maxerickson 5y ago
        Reading the boxes will establish my TDEE? How does that work? Also, just keeping track of calories is a lot of work. I've done it before, it isn't hard in a mechanical sense, it's hard in the sense that you have to do it all the time, for everything you eat, for quite a while, before you really have a reasonable picture.
bobthechef 5y ago
Frankly, I think consumerism is largely to blame. Consumerism is an ethos. Life is understood to be about consuming things, and in this case, literally consuming food. If you want to eat it, then eat it. Watch how overweight people eat and live. Except for a small percentage of people with metabolic disorders, you'll find your answer there. Consumerism turns traditional virtue on its head. Whereas once a man was a slave to his passions if he couldn't refuse himself their satisfaction, now satisfaction of them is the highest law. We even have the chutzpah to claim that this is the essence of freedom. Oh, how our ancestors weep! Yes, the man who can't control himself is now "free". Now, because we live in a consumerist society, the market is more than happy to indulge and enable what would have been previously considered a bad gluttonous habit. Junk food on every turn. Even foods that are supposedly healthy have less nutrition than they used to or contain various additives and sugar and all sorts of crap that I suppose people don't understand should be avoided. In turns, these additives can throw your metabolism out of whack. Libertarians will tell you that this is freedom and anything else is socialism, but that's bullshit. If industry is exploiting people's vices for profit, then this isn't freedom and it is the government's role to regulate and criminalize such things to protect people. That government can use protection as an excuse to push nefarious laws and regulation does not mean that it is always the case. (Mind you, the consumerist citizen is also easier to manipulate by the government, not just industry. If you are unable to refuse yourself things, then the government can better predict how to manipulate you. The same enslavement to one's passions also darkens the mind and makes you less capable of discerning the political control being used against you. It's the same with sexual liberation. Porn is a tool for social engineering and MeToo is the result of consumerism entering the sphere of sexual relations.)
- kiba 5y ago
  This sounds like overmoralization, which doesn't promote effort to find solutions. Overweight people aren't lazy, they're sick. Now, because we live in a consumerist society, the market is more than happy to indulge and enable what would have been previously considered a bad gluttonous habit. Food should be enjoyed. You shouldn't be shamed. Back in the country of my births, we have all sort of delicious food and enjoy feasts(sadly no delicious steaks or American BBQ). These are much healthier than the standard American diet, which are simply subpar and low quality. But I think diet not the only thing we should focus on. We should focus on cutting out unnecessary meals and snacks. You don't need to eat three square meals plus snacks, or breakfast, or be forced to eat if you're not hungry. That largely formed the basis of my weight loss strategy. Regimented intermittent fasting, sometime as long as two days, and eating clean. No sweetener of any kind(to avoid any kind of insulin response, known or unknown).

We do not currently know why it is so hard. Empirically it is know to be true. But it is clear that parts of the brain involved in feeding behavior can override the cortex.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
It is hard because bad habits are hard to break. It starts in childhood for most people, and parents who foster an environment full of soda, junk food, and other sugar/carb/sat fat/salt/alcohol laden foods basically decide their kids’ future for the most part. And, of course, people use food to deal with stress. You drink water almost all the time and eat mostly green stuff, you should be fine.
- balfirevic 5y ago
  > It starts in childhood for most people, and parents who foster an environment full of soda, junk food, and other sugar/carb/sat fat/salt/alcohol laden foods basically decide their kids’ future for the most part. Do you have a citation (preferably one that tries to control for genetics, but I'd appreciate any)?
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    It is a conjecture from my observations, and I guess I should note that I am not qualified in this field to make official statements. But I think the formula of “sleep right, eat right, excercise right, in that order” is pretty accurate. “Sleep right” contains the stress portion of being healthy. I do not even know if a proper controlled experiment could be conducted for such a complicated topic with our current technology. I just look at the habits of people I think are doing it right, and try to tease out the commonalities. Discipline is really the one trait that I guess leads to success in the above process, and probably everything else in life. Who knows how much of that is nature vs nurture.
    - anonuser123456 5y ago
      >Discipline is really the one trait that I guess leads to success in the above process, and probably everything else in life. Who knows how much of that is nature vs nurture. There was a recent EconTalk podcast about this. The author/guest is an expert in this type of behavioral change. Her opinion (which is the most informed I've read), is that discipline is not very important trait w.r.t. behavioral modification. Discipline is an active process and one must be constantly vigilant at a cortical level to execute it. Her view was situational control was the most important. With situational control, we learn to not put ourselves into situations beyond our control. For example, not buying a bag of Doritos is _MUCH_ easier than not eating a bag of Doritos sitting in front of you. Not going to a Casino is _MUCH_ easier than not gambling away all your cash for a gambling addict. Some thing for alcoholics etc.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Yes, that is what I meant by my initial post. “You are the company you keep” is one of the most true sayings, in my opinion. Unfortunately (and fortunately) that includes the parents and family one is born into. If you are lucky enough to have parents that sparingly eat Doritos or soda and do not keep it in the house, I assume that it will have a greater likelihood of rubbing off on the children.

kiba 5y ago

Speaking as someone on a weight loss journey(Yes, I am losing weight), I would say it's not about calories, but hormones. If you eat more, you will simply burn more calories as a result. It's a mistake to think your calories out is a independent variable, rather than a dependent one. Also, your basal metabolism changes in response to exercises, especially long term. Metabolism calculators don't account for this.

vorpalhex 5y ago
TDEE and calorie input explains weight changes within a 10% error margin. > If you eat more, you will simply burn more calories as a result. That statement is false. Calorie burn is a series of factors from activity, metabolism, size, etc. Caloric intake has little direct impact outside of how it affects your weight. > Also, your basal metabolism changes in response to exercises, especially long term. Metabolism calculators don't account for this. The effect is < 10% for base metabolism alone. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16741271/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16741271/
- maxerickson 5y ago
  So all you have to do is accurately calculate/estimate TDEE and calorie inputs? Sounds hard.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    It's about 10 mins and reading those large high contrast nutrition labels on your food. If you actually do find that too hard, pay someone for pre-portioned meals or go to a nutrionist.
    - maxerickson 5y ago
      Reading the boxes will establish my TDEE? How does that work? Also, just keeping track of calories is a lot of work. I've done it before, it isn't hard in a mechanical sense, it's hard in the sense that you have to do it all the time, for everything you eat, for quite a while, before you really have a reasonable picture.

bobthechef 5y ago

Frankly, I think consumerism is largely to blame. Consumerism is an ethos. Life is understood to be about consuming things, and in this case, literally consuming food. If you want to eat it, then eat it. Watch how overweight people eat and live. Except for a small percentage of people with metabolic disorders, you'll find your answer there. Consumerism turns traditional virtue on its head. Whereas once a man was a slave to his passions if he couldn't refuse himself their satisfaction, now satisfaction of them is the highest law. We even have the chutzpah to claim that this is the essence of freedom. Oh, how our ancestors weep! Yes, the man who can't control himself is now "free". Now, because we live in a consumerist society, the market is more than happy to indulge and enable what would have been previously considered a bad gluttonous habit. Junk food on every turn. Even foods that are supposedly healthy have less nutrition than they used to or contain various additives and sugar and all sorts of crap that I suppose people don't understand should be avoided. In turns, these additives can throw your metabolism out of whack. Libertarians will tell you that this is freedom and anything else is socialism, but that's bullshit. If industry is exploiting people's vices for profit, then this isn't freedom and it is the government's role to regulate and criminalize such things to protect people. That government can use protection as an excuse to push nefarious laws and regulation does not mean that it is always the case. (Mind you, the consumerist citizen is also easier to manipulate by the government, not just industry. If you are unable to refuse yourself things, then the government can better predict how to manipulate you. The same enslavement to one's passions also darkens the mind and makes you less capable of discerning the political control being used against you. It's the same with sexual liberation. Porn is a tool for social engineering and MeToo is the result of consumerism entering the sphere of sexual relations.)

kiba 5y ago
This sounds like overmoralization, which doesn't promote effort to find solutions. Overweight people aren't lazy, they're sick. Now, because we live in a consumerist society, the market is more than happy to indulge and enable what would have been previously considered a bad gluttonous habit. Food should be enjoyed. You shouldn't be shamed. Back in the country of my births, we have all sort of delicious food and enjoy feasts(sadly no delicious steaks or American BBQ). These are much healthier than the standard American diet, which are simply subpar and low quality. But I think diet not the only thing we should focus on. We should focus on cutting out unnecessary meals and snacks. You don't need to eat three square meals plus snacks, or breakfast, or be forced to eat if you're not hungry. That largely formed the basis of my weight loss strategy. Regimented intermittent fasting, sometime as long as two days, and eating clean. No sweetener of any kind(to avoid any kind of insulin response, known or unknown).