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The first note they provide is just about Burning Galileo at the stake. This strategy does not work and the only correct way is to inform the public. Education

The first note they provide is just about Burning Galileo at the stake. This strategy does not work and the only correct way is to inform the public. Education is the ONLY solution and this indoctrination path will only result in war.

bopbeepboop 5y ago
Particularly because the censors are shown to lie for their benefit: - covering up lab leak for Fauci - dismissing Ivermectin for partisan reasons - hiding the antisemitism and general violence of BLM - hiding that BLM is a Marxist organization - covering for Cuomo and Whitmer killing the elderly with disastrous policies - lying about CRT, which people are rightly opposing as modern racism - dismissing any concern about electronic voting as irrational, amid the two largest cyberattacks in US history (SolarWinds + MS Exchange) Etc. Their whole system is already based on lies — something foreign powers have been able to utilize in PSYOPs by, eg, highlighting attacks on Jewish neighborhoods during the riots. Lying to the public makes a weak country.
- ta8645 5y ago
  You're 100% correct and the people down voting should think about what happens if they lose control of the censors and censorship starts being run by right-wing zealots instead of the far left.
  - fatsdomino001 5y ago
    Sad seeing the parent comment getting flagged. Censorship by flagging a very real problem on HN, but from what I can tell its mainly the users abusing it not the mod team who are generally well-balanced.
    - bopbeepboop 5y ago
      I’m actually shadowbanned, so all my comments are automatically flagged. My opinions are an “inherent flame war”, according to HN mods — even when I state them calmly and carefully cite sources. It’s not that individuals on HN believe this individual comment is bad — the leadership of HN is trying to silence my views to shape the community’s thoughts. I continue to post anyway, to slowly spread awareness of how HN uses shadowbans to suppress “wrongthink”.
    - ta8645 5y ago
      Yeah, I don't think of a fair moderation system as censorship. Groups of people should have the freedom to keep a discussion focused on whatever they desire. Still, it's disappointing just how easy it is for us to be completely blind to things that go against our own preferences, even when they're blindingly obvious to others.
      - fatsdomino001 5y ago
        I agree it's so easy not to see our own biases reflected in our own censorship actions. We all have blind spots, but censoring parts of a discussion simply because you don't like them isn't healthy.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  You've identified a number of real things here, but you've also swallowed a few whoppers. "CRT" was originally something that a few scholars discussed in university settings. Now it is mostly a non-existent right-wing bogeyman that YouTube weirdos hype for clicks. No one is going to teach your little daughters and sons that they are inherently evil. (Although, isn't that the Christian doctrine of Original Sin?) However, some of their better teachers might teach some history that you didn't learn in school.
  - ta8645 5y ago
    You're being naive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXNaUz5LGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXNaUz5LGY
    - jessaustin 5y ago
      "Indicrat" is certainly one of those "YouTube weirdos" referenced above. The lecture audience seen in that clip were old white women, not young white children. If those women hadn't heard about racism before then they should have. Also, obviously the woman in the form-fitting attire was using intentionally provocative language. She doesn't really believe in demons. She was even giggling during part of the clip. There is nothing wrong with provocative language, unless one is a cancel-culture moron with easily hurt feelings.
      - ta8645 5y ago
        You're refusing to just accept that CRT is in fact embraced, advocated, and shaping discourse and attitudes among people. This example did not spring up out of the blue. Your dismissal of it as a right-wing fiction is either naive, or dishonest.
        jessaustin 5y ago
        If that were the case, CRT Chickens Little would be able to come up with some evidence of it. Actual evidence, not the amusing video linked above. Which precious white children have run crying from elementary school? To be clear: I'm sure that (adult) white Americans have been informed of their racism. I'm sure that 1950s lynchings and other uncomfortably recent events have been taught in some history courses. I'm sure that racist aspects of various contemporary institutions have been discussed. I'm sure that you have been very uncomfortable with all of that. All of those are good things. Stop hiding behind hypothetical traumatized children.
tzs 5y ago
Generally, producing true and accurate information takes more effort than producing misinformation, and on the consumption side understanding a refutation of something generally takes more time than understanding the original thing. This leads to an inherent advantage for the producers of misinformation. You approach worked say 50 years ago, when most of us had limited sources of information and so had time to actually see and understand the refutations of most attempts at misinformation. Nowadays, we've almost all got more sources of information competing for our attention than we have time to deal with. It is much less likely we'll see the answers to the misinformation, or have time to deal with them. Furthermore, with what we see algorithmically determined to maximize engagement, we are probably going to be shown more misinformation from the same or related sources instead of the refutation.
uniqueid 5y ago
I agree we need more education if people think Galileo was burnt at the stake.
- perihelions 5y ago
  Indeed! That was a different Italian heliocentrist, Giordano Bruno. (He has an excellent statue in Rome on the Campo de Fiori, un-subtly facing the Vatican). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

bopbeepboop 5y ago

Particularly because the censors are shown to lie for their benefit: - covering up lab leak for Fauci - dismissing Ivermectin for partisan reasons - hiding the antisemitism and general violence of BLM - hiding that BLM is a Marxist organization - covering for Cuomo and Whitmer killing the elderly with disastrous policies - lying about CRT, which people are rightly opposing as modern racism - dismissing any concern about electronic voting as irrational, amid the two largest cyberattacks in US history (SolarWinds + MS Exchange) Etc. Their whole system is already based on lies — something foreign powers have been able to utilize in PSYOPs by, eg, highlighting attacks on Jewish neighborhoods during the riots. Lying to the public makes a weak country.

ta8645 5y ago
You're 100% correct and the people down voting should think about what happens if they lose control of the censors and censorship starts being run by right-wing zealots instead of the far left.
- fatsdomino001 5y ago
  Sad seeing the parent comment getting flagged. Censorship by flagging a very real problem on HN, but from what I can tell its mainly the users abusing it not the mod team who are generally well-balanced.
  - bopbeepboop 5y ago
    I’m actually shadowbanned, so all my comments are automatically flagged. My opinions are an “inherent flame war”, according to HN mods — even when I state them calmly and carefully cite sources. It’s not that individuals on HN believe this individual comment is bad — the leadership of HN is trying to silence my views to shape the community’s thoughts. I continue to post anyway, to slowly spread awareness of how HN uses shadowbans to suppress “wrongthink”.
  - ta8645 5y ago
    Yeah, I don't think of a fair moderation system as censorship. Groups of people should have the freedom to keep a discussion focused on whatever they desire. Still, it's disappointing just how easy it is for us to be completely blind to things that go against our own preferences, even when they're blindingly obvious to others.
    - fatsdomino001 5y ago
      I agree it's so easy not to see our own biases reflected in our own censorship actions. We all have blind spots, but censoring parts of a discussion simply because you don't like them isn't healthy.
jessaustin 5y ago
You've identified a number of real things here, but you've also swallowed a few whoppers. "CRT" was originally something that a few scholars discussed in university settings. Now it is mostly a non-existent right-wing bogeyman that YouTube weirdos hype for clicks. No one is going to teach your little daughters and sons that they are inherently evil. (Although, isn't that the Christian doctrine of Original Sin?) However, some of their better teachers might teach some history that you didn't learn in school.
- ta8645 5y ago
  You're being naive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXNaUz5LGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXNaUz5LGY
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    "Indicrat" is certainly one of those "YouTube weirdos" referenced above. The lecture audience seen in that clip were old white women, not young white children. If those women hadn't heard about racism before then they should have. Also, obviously the woman in the form-fitting attire was using intentionally provocative language. She doesn't really believe in demons. She was even giggling during part of the clip. There is nothing wrong with provocative language, unless one is a cancel-culture moron with easily hurt feelings.
    - ta8645 5y ago
      You're refusing to just accept that CRT is in fact embraced, advocated, and shaping discourse and attitudes among people. This example did not spring up out of the blue. Your dismissal of it as a right-wing fiction is either naive, or dishonest.
      - jessaustin 5y ago
        If that were the case, CRT Chickens Little would be able to come up with some evidence of it. Actual evidence, not the amusing video linked above. Which precious white children have run crying from elementary school? To be clear: I'm sure that (adult) white Americans have been informed of their racism. I'm sure that 1950s lynchings and other uncomfortably recent events have been taught in some history courses. I'm sure that racist aspects of various contemporary institutions have been discussed. I'm sure that you have been very uncomfortable with all of that. All of those are good things. Stop hiding behind hypothetical traumatized children.

tzs 5y ago

Generally, producing true and accurate information takes more effort than producing misinformation, and on the consumption side understanding a refutation of something generally takes more time than understanding the original thing. This leads to an inherent advantage for the producers of misinformation. You approach worked say 50 years ago, when most of us had limited sources of information and so had time to actually see and understand the refutations of most attempts at misinformation. Nowadays, we've almost all got more sources of information competing for our attention than we have time to deal with. It is much less likely we'll see the answers to the misinformation, or have time to deal with them. Furthermore, with what we see algorithmically determined to maximize engagement, we are probably going to be shown more misinformation from the same or related sources instead of the refutation.

uniqueid 5y ago

I agree we need more education if people think Galileo was burnt at the stake.

perihelions 5y ago
Indeed! That was a different Italian heliocentrist, Giordano Bruno. (He has an excellent statue in Rome on the Campo de Fiori, un-subtly facing the Vatican). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno