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The problem with Python community is, when comparing Python with Ruby, Pythonistas give almost no objective reasons to prefer Python but give many highly subjec

The problem with Python community is, when comparing Python with Ruby, Pythonistas give almost no objective reasons to prefer Python but give many highly subjective (provoking) opinions, like the following: 1. Zen of Python. (since Ruby doesn't adhere to it, it's bad) 2. Python community is less arrogant compared to Ruby community. (painting millions of Ruby programmers with the same brush based on an IRC chat they had) 3. Google loves Python. (is that even a reason?) 4. Zed Shaw said so-and-so against Ruby/Rails which I want to believe/agree. (fan mentality)

true_religion 15y ago
Ruby and Python are very very close. When I initially chose Python to me it was a like a choice between chocolate ice cream and raspberry---one can't really critique something so subjective. However as time has passed by and I have become competent at Python, I see some clear wins for Python where Ruby lags: 1. Machine Learning with PyML, et al. Python has some of the best tools for scientific programming by far. 2. Two order of magnitude improvements for numeric code using either: - NumPy - Cython - PyPy 3. I prefer Cython to integrate C/C++ code to using any form of FFI. Yes, the cultures are different but that rarely affects beginners.
- dimmuborgir 15y ago
  All fair points. I was talking about opinionated/troll/FUD blog posts.
  - sp332 15y ago
    Ah, then I think you shouldn't have used the term pythonista because this refers to serious Python people, not trolls.
espeed 15y ago
Here are the reasons I recommend Python over Ruby: * Python is easier to learn (not much syntax) * Easier to read (explicit vs implicit) * Has a bigger ecosystem (more packages/libraries) * Taught at universities so it's easier to find good programmers to help * More research/resources going into to its development (e.g. PyPy) * Used by more websites/companies so its easier to find jobs And these are the online Python tutorials I recommend http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-learn-to-program-in-Python/answer/James-Thornton http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-learn-to-program-in-Python/an...
- dimmuborgir 15y ago
  * Subjective * Subjective * False: http://modulecounts.com http://modulecounts.com * Some American universities. * Agreed. * Statistics please.
  - espeed 15y ago
    Here are the Indeed job trends showing Python vs Ruby: http://www.indeed.com/jobanalytics/jobtrends?q=python%2C+ruby&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobanalytics/jobtrends?q=python%2C+rub...
    - Troll_Whisperer 15y ago
      As a relative newb, who got his first real experience with AS3 (flash games), I've put some serious thought into this issue. I've seen that job chart come up a number of times, and it's true that python is bigger now. But clicking on relative gives a startlingly opposite picture: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=python%2C+ruby&l=&relative=1 http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=python%2C+ruby&l=&... For now, since I've gotten a programming job (yay!) at an iOS shop, I've gotta work on Obj. C. But when the time comes to really get good at a higher level language, it's hard to say which way I'll go.
      - dpritchett 15y ago
        I've also noticed that python listings on Indeed.com are often optional automation skills for sysadmin or build coordinator jobs rather than pure programming. These are valid jobs but hardly comparable to the dev jobs listed for other languages e.g. "Ruby Developer".
StavrosK 15y ago
What reasons do the Rubyists give?
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- rohitarondekar 15y ago
  They don't. They are busy having fun coding. :)
ItarPeyo 15y ago
> The problem with the X community... Isn't that painting millions of X programmers with the same brush?
zedshaw 15y ago
I tell people to learn both, and I fucking hate Ruby. It's the way of the industry right now that if you want to easily get a job, you know Ruby and Python. I also think Ruby is slowly going away and Python is taking its place, but we could debate that forever and a day.
- Bootvis 15y ago
  Isn't that a bit strong, in the project you mention in this talk: http://vimeo.com/2723800 http://vimeo.com/2723800 Ruby was used (with success). What's to hate?

true_religion 15y ago

Ruby and Python are very very close. When I initially chose Python to me it was a like a choice between chocolate ice cream and raspberry---one can't really critique something so subjective. However as time has passed by and I have become competent at Python, I see some clear wins for Python where Ruby lags: 1. Machine Learning with PyML, et al. Python has some of the best tools for scientific programming by far. 2. Two order of magnitude improvements for numeric code using either: - NumPy - Cython - PyPy 3. I prefer Cython to integrate C/C++ code to using any form of FFI. Yes, the cultures are different but that rarely affects beginners.

dimmuborgir 15y ago
All fair points. I was talking about opinionated/troll/FUD blog posts.
- sp332 15y ago
  Ah, then I think you shouldn't have used the term pythonista because this refers to serious Python people, not trolls.

espeed 15y ago

Here are the reasons I recommend Python over Ruby: * Python is easier to learn (not much syntax) * Easier to read (explicit vs implicit) * Has a bigger ecosystem (more packages/libraries) * Taught at universities so it's easier to find good programmers to help * More research/resources going into to its development (e.g. PyPy) * Used by more websites/companies so its easier to find jobs And these are the online Python tutorials I recommend http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-learn-to-program-in-Python/answer/James-Thornton http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-learn-to-program-in-Python/an...

dimmuborgir 15y ago
* Subjective * Subjective * False: http://modulecounts.com http://modulecounts.com * Some American universities. * Agreed. * Statistics please.
- espeed 15y ago
  Here are the Indeed job trends showing Python vs Ruby: http://www.indeed.com/jobanalytics/jobtrends?q=python%2C+ruby&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobanalytics/jobtrends?q=python%2C+rub...
  - Troll_Whisperer 15y ago
    As a relative newb, who got his first real experience with AS3 (flash games), I've put some serious thought into this issue. I've seen that job chart come up a number of times, and it's true that python is bigger now. But clicking on relative gives a startlingly opposite picture: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=python%2C+ruby&l=&relative=1 http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=python%2C+ruby&l=&... For now, since I've gotten a programming job (yay!) at an iOS shop, I've gotta work on Obj. C. But when the time comes to really get good at a higher level language, it's hard to say which way I'll go.
    - dpritchett 15y ago
      I've also noticed that python listings on Indeed.com are often optional automation skills for sysadmin or build coordinator jobs rather than pure programming. These are valid jobs but hardly comparable to the dev jobs listed for other languages e.g. "Ruby Developer".

StavrosK 15y ago

What reasons do the Rubyists give?

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
rohitarondekar 15y ago
They don't. They are busy having fun coding. :)

ItarPeyo 15y ago

> The problem with the X community... Isn't that painting millions of X programmers with the same brush?

zedshaw 15y ago

I tell people to learn both, and I fucking hate Ruby. It's the way of the industry right now that if you want to easily get a job, you know Ruby and Python. I also think Ruby is slowly going away and Python is taking its place, but we could debate that forever and a day.

Bootvis 15y ago
Isn't that a bit strong, in the project you mention in this talk: http://vimeo.com/2723800 http://vimeo.com/2723800 Ruby was used (with success). What's to hate?