15 ms·
Ian Knot (2003)
- BugsJustFindMe 5y agoOr use velcro, which is even faster.
- karmakaze 5y agoOr tension adjuster/release dials--I hope these don't go out of fashion.
- cookie_monsta 5y agoOr shower slides - on the current trajectory they will be formal wear within a couple of years.
- SilverRed 5y agoThis year I decided to just stop untieing my shoes. Now I just slide them on and off still tied. It's by far the fastest and best way to use shoes. And once you tie them well once, they don't come undone while walking.
- zimpenfish 5y ago> Now I just slide them on and off still tied. Normally a good way to ruin the back of the collar though, especially if they have achilles support structures (like some running shoes.) Source: many of my shoes with ruined collars.
- SilverRed 5y agoThis is certainly true of shoes with those plastic inserts around the back. I mostly wear casual shoes, specifically the Adidas gazelles which do not have anything rigid on the back and have a low friction leather outside which makes slipping them on easy.
- wruza 5y agoShoehorn helps with that.
- oezi 5y agoBut this doesn't work if you like he shoes to fit tightly and not wiggle around while walking, right?
- SilverRed 5y agoThey are sufficiently tight for me, no wiggle. It does depend on the shoe though. With some its very easy and some its hard and risks damaging the back.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoOr just buy slip-on shoes only. (Granted, that's potentially a nonstarter if you have a dress code to meet, but so is Velcro.)
- unanswered 5y agoI've been doing something about halfway between this and a more traditional method for a couple decades. Presumably I've saved a few hours by now; but watch out! If you're like me, you'll no longer be able to tie those hospital garments behind your back any more, as the muscle memory crucially relies on the relative position of the starting knot -_-
- irjustin 5y agoI mean... it is but... the optimization isn't something worth the time.
- cartoonworld 5y agoIan Knot is dope! Once I learned this existed I was really stoked about tying my shoes for like a week or two, as idiotic as that sounds. Not only is it pretty quick and eliminates stuck knots frustrating untying attempts, which is fine I guess, but it is actually better than whatever the hell I was doing before. I've felt embarrassed if my shoes became untied, its just kind of unbecoming. Ever tie your shoes and the damn knot goes sideways, with the loops coming from the top and bottom? Well here's the cure to all of your knot compulsions. Notice just below the instructions on TFA: NOTE: If your finished knot comes out crooked, it's probably because you tie your Starting Knot the opposite way to mine. This will result in an un-balanced “Granny Knot”, which both sits crooked and comes undone more easily. See my Granny Knot page for more information. The Ian Knot is great because the knot works properly wrt how the strings pull against each other. He also explains how and why to have loops and strings come out the sides perfectly, and with the knot round shoe laces like on dress shoes, leather laces, work boots, whatever will basically never come undone. Good knot, and really easy. It'll take you about 15 minutes to master, an hour or so if you have poor dexterity.
- abakker 5y agoI made the switch a few years ago and it took me 3-4 days to get it down. Now I can’t even do it the other way without thinking.
- oezi 5y agoWhy not? 2 times 5 seconds saved each day are an hour per decade. Also the psychological benefits of doing something well.
- irjustin 5y agoUsing the slip-on method, I tie my shoes probably once every 6 months or so. They're double knotted. But now I'm also keeping an eye out for over-optimizing.
- techrat 5y agoPrevious related discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16454796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16454796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26867300 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26867300 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24091391 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24091391 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22053698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22053698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21153182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21153182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15282752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15282752
- readflaggedcomm 5y agoIt seems to depend on the starting knot maintaining tension, which I have never experienced.
- Waterluvian 5y agoAll that great instruction and what worked for me was just slowing that gif down.
- pmoriarty 5y agoMany years ago I tied my shoes with something called Perry's Perpectual knot[1][2], and then haven't had to retie my shoes since. At worst the knot will get a bit loose from time to time (like maybe once a year), and then it takes a few seconds to tighten it again. I expect my shoes will fall apart (they're already pretty old) before this knot unties. [1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20051203081429/http://web.ukonline.co.uk/glennbarcham/Shoe/knot1.htm#per https://web.archive.org/web/20051203081429/http://web.ukonli... [2] - http://i.imgur.com/mzyXuet.png http://i.imgur.com/mzyXuet.png
- SPBS 5y agoVery cool, shocking that this may be the only mention of it on the internet because Google shows 0 search results for it.
- dwd 5y agoYou can also tie your laces with a reef knot which has no loops to catch on anything and untie. If you're wearing hiking boots, you can go once around the back to reduce the lace lengths and then make the knot.
- pmoriarty 5y agoThe advantage of Perry's Perpetual is that it's easily adjustable, so you can get the perfect tightness (which is critical for me to get in and out of my shoes without needing to untie the knot).
- 112233 5y agoI’ve been using reef knot with extra turns (looks like the so called “surgeons” knot, but the top part also has extra turns), and can second the suggestion. it never has loosened or caught on something. also, because of extra turns, it never jams and can be easily untied even with one hand. just have to use shorter laces.
- askvictor 5y agoI can't quite parse the imgur instructions; in the first image, the pink lace enters from the left of the image; next image it enters from the right, then from the left again. And the images on the archive aren't loading for me :( Really want to try this one out - any other references?
- _tom_ 5y agoI suppose it’s pedantic to be annoyed that he’s calling this an “Ian knot” when it’s the standard shoelace knot, a slipped square knot, and not anything new. The change it in how you tie it, not in the resulting knot.
- spuz 5y agoA knot is not just the end result though, it's also how you tie it.
- _tom_ 5y agoThat is incorrect. The final position is what determines that knot. There can be many ways to get there, but they are all considered one knot. Search for how to tie alpine butterfly for an example of a knot that are many ways to tie, but all are considered the same knot.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jalk 5y agoMany people are tying their shoes with slipped granny knot. There was a ted talk with some geezer teaching people to turn the bows in the opposite direction. But it’s way simpler to learn to twist the laces in the first knot opposite and then you get the square knot. You can easily tell the difference by the direction of the bows. Square has bows perpendicular to the shoe, Granny twists the bows more parallel to the shoe.
- flakiness 5y agoFor shoelace knots, the difficulty also matters. I recently about a shoelace-practice book [1] for my 4yo daughter. This book shows a couple of ways to knot, and one of them, called "bunny ear bow" [2] is easier than the traditional "double-loop". I hope these knot-inventors pay more attention to the ease side so that kids can start knotting by themselves earlier. That could be thanked more than inventing a tricky-but-fast methods for adults. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Your-Shoes-Cottage-Door-Press/dp/168052318X/ https://www.amazon.com/Your-Shoes-Cottage-Door-Press/dp/1680... [2] https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/local/hillcrest-fever/the-easy-bunny-ears-method-of-tying-laces-20160530 https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/local/hillcrest-fe...
- ladon86 5y agoI learned this about 8 years ago and have been doing it ever since. You also develop good muscle memory for the motion, so I can typically grab both laces and tie them without looking.
- oezi 5y agoMy main issue with the Ian knot is that the standard half (overhand) knot you need as a base is taking most of the time now. Any pointers to improve that?
- aidenn0 5y agoI don't use the Ian knot, but Ian suggests using the same motion as when tying the loops, but pull the loops all the way through
- briantakita 5y agoLearned this from basketball player in college.
- yesenadam 5y ago> Because it was tied much more quickly and symmetrically, the laces suffer less wear and tear and thus last longer. Might these claims also fall victim to the replication crisis?!
- justshowpost 5y agoSalomon Quicklace is the solution for all lacing worries https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgYYeJpo2fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgYYeJpo2fk They are also selling retrofit kits
- mdaniel 5y agoI don't know how that can be patented when my snowboard boot inserts lace the same way; I find it highly suspicious that 32 licensed a lacing technology from those Salomon folks
- ThePadawan 5y ago> I find it highly suspicious that 32 licensed a lacing technology from those Salomon folks Why? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. It would be like a outdoor jacket manufacturer licensing the use of Goretex technology in their branded jackets.
- mdaniel 5y agoBecause I have a hard time imagining myself in the conference room where they're like, wow, our boots are great, but who here knows how to lace them up? Nobody? Ok, then let's pay these randos some licensing fees. Alice from legal, can you start contractual negotiations for how much money, or percentage of our boot sales, we're going to pay randos. Bob from manufacturing, can you start investigating how we're going to retool our boot line to fold in this new technology? I'm sure there are a bazillion other logistical moving parts that I can't even imagine For laces. I'll also point out, without one shred of irony, that the reason I bought those 32 brand boots is for their innovative boot lacing system (Boa). Maybe they licensed that, too
- ThePadawan 5y agoFair enough. I personally imagined much more of a "well we're a shoe company...anyone got any ideas for new models? Well then, how about one with fancy laces?" situation, and that seemed plausible enough.
- mdaniel 5y agoUkrainian crew represent: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ukrainianlacing.htm https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ukrainianlacing.htm TBH, its effectiveness depends on the friction of the actual lace material -- some of them are so smooth that it still requires loosely tying the loops across the resulting knot just to keep the pressure on it, but to me it still feels faster and smoother, and ultimately it makes me happy so I keep using it
- jtwaleson 5y agoI had a very cool physics teacher who taught the class this around 2004. Not sure how many stuck with it, but I haven't looked back. For centuries virtually every single person tied their shoelaces every day, and it can be done so much better! It took one guy to take a critical look and create a better way. That was a real eye opener. If true for shoelaces, it's true for a lot more things. That's your daily dose of inspiration ;)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- lillesvin 5y agoI love Ian's site. It's such a good example of how you can really get geeky (in the most positive way possible) with almost anything. I'm a bit of a sneakerhead, and one good way to freshen up a pair of old kicks is new laces — perhaps even in an untraditional configuration, like lattice lacing. I had no idea that Ian had invented this method of tying shoes. I've been using and loving it ever since i saw a gif of it on Reddit about a decade ago.
- shoto_io 5y agoWow, a site completely dedicated to shoe laces... I think someone has found their niche!
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- throwaway984393 5y agoI know probably 40 knots. I use the ol' double slipped reef knot for my shoes. Sometimes I tie a granny knot by accident and then I back out the second loop and finish a reef knot. Sometimes I capture the whole thing in another slipped loop if the laces are way too long. Sometimes I double or triple up the knot. It really doesn't matter what knot I use to tie my shoes. The shoelaces make way more difference than the knot. I can triple-knot my laces, and if they've no tooth, they're gonna come undone. If they have tooth a-plenty and I use a single knot, they aren't going anywhere. It doesn't matter, because even if they come untied, I'll just tie them again. If I really want them to stay, I don't ship them, and weave the running ends back into the laces.
- Saint_Genet 5y agoI just use the reverse normal knot, And I've never had a problem with it coming undone since I switched to that. The only truly useful thing I've learned from a TED talk.
- vessel 5y agoFor those interested: https://www.ted.com/talks/terry_moore_how_to_tie_your_shoes https://www.ted.com/talks/terry_moore_how_to_tie_your_shoes
- shannifin 5y agoDoes anyone else remember a TV commercial (probably for shoes) that ended with someone tying a shoelace this way (or very similar)? I learned it from that commercial, but I forgot what it was advertising so I could never find it again. (ETA I just slip my foot in and out of shoes without having to tie/untie them at all, saving even more time than this knot. This is known as the Hannifin Slip and I'm the inventor.)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- animal531 5y agoUnfortunately my family didn't pay close attention when I was taught how to tie my shoes, so I ended up using a granny knot until my 30's. After googling I figured out the problem, but it took me probably a month to internalize the new knot (the worst being the 3rd or so phase when the new move becomes natural and you don't have to think about it anymore, but sometimes your brain just flips a 50/50 coin as to whether it'll use the old or the new method).
- twirligigue 5y agoOne thing that shoelace teachers seem to get wrong is teaching with empty shoes. In reality shoelaces are tied under tension. This affects the grip we used or what the rest of the hand is doing. Small wonder children find it difficult. Even the Ian's knot demo uses an empty shoe. Since I haven't learnt his tying technique, can anyone please say if it works under tension? In exchange I'll give you a free tip on how to dry your shoes. Remove the insoles and wedge inside a ball of absorbent paper such as kitchen towel for 10 minutes. Remove and then insert a vacuum cleaner nozzle inside. Switch on the vacuum and leave it running for 20 minutes or until dry. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/782216-everything-is-interesting-if-you-go-into-it-deeply-enough https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/782216-everything-is-intere...
- dmos62 5y agoI've been using this knot for many years now. It's quick and easy, but it slips with some laces. It's really annoying, but I can't get myself to change knots.
- CRConrad 5y agoDo one or two loops more.
- denton-scratch 5y agoIan's "Starting Knot" is traditionally known as a half-hitch.
- codeulike 5y agoThe (2003-2021) in the title made me think that it was no longer the 'fastest shoelace' record holder and had now been beaten by another knot but fortunately I see that that is knot the case.
- yitchelle 5y agoPun has always been a knotty subject on HN.
- ctf1er 5y agoA nice tip I've learned is that if your common shoe knot tends to turn upward instead of laying flat, you just need to mirror the last steps of tying(like if your were tying someone else's shoe.) It looks funny and is annoying having your ankles tickled while working out or playing sports. But the fastest and worst lace tie I believe are had with those old corkscrew shaped laces you just pulled to tighten.
- AceyMan 5y agoI mentioned to Ian that in my household it's called the "All-day Knot" and he agreed that was probably a more suitable name but by then he'd had this page up so long it'd be no use to change it at that point. (longtime user of the site, obvi.) /Acey