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He set back wages for techies for years, and was a prick to his family & friends (disavowing his daughter, screwing Woz out of money). I don't care if he was th

by soperj 5y ago

He set back wages for techies for years, and was a prick to his family & friends (disavowing his daughter, screwing Woz out of money). I don't care if he was the brightest guy on earth, or what "value" he bestowed on the world. He wasn't a good human being. Same goes for Gates.

dzhiurgis 5y ago
Gates is borderline criminal
gridlockd 5y ago
> He wasn't a good human being Good is the enemy of great.
ekianjo 5y ago
I have never liked Jobs (or even Apple) - even more so after the cult following his death - but nevertheless I would not pretend to know him and to be able to pass a final judgment on him as a human being. Maybe he was an asshole? Maybe he treated people badly? Yet people still worked for him and respected him nonetheless. And if we ever were in his position, would we be worse or better? It's not something we can easily know or guess.
etempleton 5y ago
You have to take the good with the bad. Steve and Bill were able to accomplish what they did because of their unique personality quirks. Those same quirks make them not always compassionate or empathetic people. No one is perfect. Steve was who he was. A lot of people who were closest to him seemed very sad that he passed. He must have made a positive impression on them.
- soperj 5y ago
  Sorry, but disavowing your daughter to not pay child support, or trying to recoup someones shares because they have cancer isn't a personality quirk.
  - adventured 5y ago
    Since it's important to be accurate when you're condemning someone - Gates never tried to take back Paul Allen's shares. That isn't merely a bit of nuance. It never happened. The only thing that ever happened was the infamous discussion between Gates and Ballmer, which Allen overheard. Gates offered to purchase the shares in 1983, which Allen rejected. Allen is quite clear about what happened in his book Idea Man. A detestable conversation by Gates, certainly. And yet Allen checked out of Microsoft in 1982 and kept his enormous fortune from it and Gates never tried to take it from him. Everyone on HN would spontaneously combust if they were judged by their worst thoughts or conversations, without exception.
    - soperj 5y ago
      They were discussing ways to dilute his shares. Bill tried to buy him out at a much reduced rate ($5 a share). When they went public a couple years later, the share price was $35 on the first day. Either way the whole thing was precipitated because he wasn't being as productive on account of having cancer. Bill likes to say that the relationship was repaired near the end of Paul's life, but at the same time, he wouldn't take or return a call from him when he was on his death bed, which they talk about in the mini-doc "Inside Bill's Brain".

by soperj 5y ago

dzhiurgis 5y ago

Gates is borderline criminal

gridlockd 5y ago

> He wasn't a good human being Good is the enemy of great.

ekianjo 5y ago

I have never liked Jobs (or even Apple) - even more so after the cult following his death - but nevertheless I would not pretend to know him and to be able to pass a final judgment on him as a human being. Maybe he was an asshole? Maybe he treated people badly? Yet people still worked for him and respected him nonetheless. And if we ever were in his position, would we be worse or better? It's not something we can easily know or guess.

etempleton 5y ago

You have to take the good with the bad. Steve and Bill were able to accomplish what they did because of their unique personality quirks. Those same quirks make them not always compassionate or empathetic people. No one is perfect. Steve was who he was. A lot of people who were closest to him seemed very sad that he passed. He must have made a positive impression on them.

soperj 5y ago
Sorry, but disavowing your daughter to not pay child support, or trying to recoup someones shares because they have cancer isn't a personality quirk.
- adventured 5y ago
  Since it's important to be accurate when you're condemning someone - Gates never tried to take back Paul Allen's shares. That isn't merely a bit of nuance. It never happened. The only thing that ever happened was the infamous discussion between Gates and Ballmer, which Allen overheard. Gates offered to purchase the shares in 1983, which Allen rejected. Allen is quite clear about what happened in his book Idea Man. A detestable conversation by Gates, certainly. And yet Allen checked out of Microsoft in 1982 and kept his enormous fortune from it and Gates never tried to take it from him. Everyone on HN would spontaneously combust if they were judged by their worst thoughts or conversations, without exception.
  - soperj 5y ago
    They were discussing ways to dilute his shares. Bill tried to buy him out at a much reduced rate ($5 a share). When they went public a couple years later, the share price was $35 on the first day. Either way the whole thing was precipitated because he wasn't being as productive on account of having cancer. Bill likes to say that the relationship was repaired near the end of Paul's life, but at the same time, he wouldn't take or return a call from him when he was on his death bed, which they talk about in the mini-doc "Inside Bill's Brain".