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The Ryokan that they mention he always stayed at is apparently very good: https://www.annees-de-pelerinage.com/tawaraya-ryokan-review-best-hotel-in-the-world/

by neom 5y ago

The Ryokan that they mention he always stayed at is apparently very good: https://www.annees-de-pelerinage.com/tawaraya-ryokan-review-best-hotel-in-the-world/ https://www.annees-de-pelerinage.com/tawaraya-ryokan-review-... "Concierge service at the breakfast table is good, but the story goes on. On my way out one of the porters silently approached me and said: “Schwarze-sama, we checked the weather forecast and there will be rain this evening. So here is an umbrella to take along. Also, we took the liberty of reserving a table at that restaurant you wanted to go. Oh and last thing: here is a city plan for you where we already detailed down the way to Fushimi Inari.” It goes without saying that the guy responsible for my shoes already set out my hiking shoes and not one of my city or evening shoes. Even he knew of my plans."

timr 5y ago
That article is a bit silly. While I'm sure it's nice, this is not one of the high-end ryokans in Kyoto, and by no means is it "the best hotel in Japan" (I lived in Kyoto, and have been there many times). Reading the reviews, it mainly sounds small and difficult to book, and it has a cult reputation. I was actually a little surprised Jobs stayed there, given that there are really high-end places where dignitaries and utra-rich people tend to stay. This particular place is not in a fancy or scenic area, though it is in a very convenient location, very near Teramachi, Sanjo, Kiyamachi, etc. Many of the elite ryokans are further out in more scenic areas (in Arashiyama, for example). The service standard in Japan is quite high, so pretty much any mid-range ryokan will provide an umbrella or making reservations for you. And if you're an internationally famous billionaire...
- Marciplan 5y ago
  What makes you think SJ would appreciate what the ultra-billionaire appreciates, though? :)
  - bredren 5y ago
    Indeed, not all billionaires appreciate the same things.
- flycaliguy 5y ago
  I’m sure Steve Jobs stayed at the highest end spots elsewhere on the planet. It mentions in the article that this place is right near his favourite soba.
  - timr 5y ago
    The soba place is good.
- MathYouF 5y ago
  Having lived in Japan for a year and reading the review of the service, it reminds me how funny it is to read foreigners reviews of Japanese customer service describing it as miraculous when Japanese would consider it standard and adequate. Truly a special culture and country, the rest of humanity could learn a lot about humility and service from Japan.
  - timr 5y ago
    Yes, definitely. Travel blogs about Japan (travel blogs in general?) are usually pretty cringey for exactly that reason. It takes some time and experience to know what is unique about a culture, and what is simply the normal service/tourist mode of interaction. I try not to judge, since I'm sure that I had the same experience the first time, and it's part of what makes it fun to travel there. But I'm also not really reacting to the sincerity of the authors' amazement, as much as their lack of self-awareness when writing things like "this is the best hotel in Japan", when their sample size is clearly pretty small.
    - MathYouF 5y ago
      Oh it is assuredly not the best hotel in Kyoto, or even the nicest staff. Still, I don't doubt the service was so much better than they've experienced everywhere else in the world that they statistically just assumed it must also be exceptional by Japanese standards as well. As an interesting aside, I met a few western youngsters working in the hotel industry in Japan and they were very nice and their Japanese was very good, but they said they constantly seemed to not meet the standards their managers expected of them. The quality of service you can get at the average 7-11 there feels almost comparable to dining at a five star restaurant in NYC, and going to an average quality hotel can feel like you're a guest at the Ritz Carlton. It's because Japanese have no shame in providing excellent service to others. I feel in the US it is considered as if one is admitting they are beneath another if they provide that kind of service, maybe that's why we have a tipping culture as well, to assuage the feeling of shame that comes with service in the US. A pity the nation has a culture like that, being of service to others is something that should be considered noble and aspirational.
mattlondon 5y ago
I personally find that sort of treatment kinda irritating. Perhaps I am just too English about it, but please mind their own business. Even the guy handling your shoes knows about what you are doing with your day? Your total itinerary that someone else planned for you? No thank you. What if actually I just wanted to do my own thing and the shoe guy got it wrong? Now everyone is embarrassed while they go get your tatty shoes and cancel restaurant reservations because you just wanted to go to Starbucks and do some email today. If I had asked for those things then 110% yes, I love that decent service. But if it is all assumption...? then please leave me alone and don't think you know what I want. Kthx bai
- neom 5y ago
  From what he wrote, it sounds like he discussed his plans for the day with the breakfast butler, and they were able to infer based on his discussed plans what he would need (including a map with the route that they talked about marked). I also don't like to be bothered, but that would be fine enough by me.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  You would have asked for them. That's the point of those kinds of services: you decide on our plans and leave the arrangements to someone else. For what it's worth, I've stopped at B&Bs in Peak District (England) where you tell them which tor you wish to hike and you're provided with a map and packed lunch.
dzhiurgis 5y ago
I was amazed by service in Ryokan too - by the time we checked in our suitcases were in our rooms. By the time we had breakfast (with lady getting on her knees and explaining everything) our futons were done (we felt a bit embarrassed leaving mess and personal items everywhere). Ryokan is one of the best experiences in travel!
- m4rtink 5y ago
  The Ryokan futon we got in Kinosaki are the best ones I've ever slept in, super comfy! :) And of course they magically spawned in our rooms after we returned from our last tour of the towns famous onsen for that day, perfect! :)
- bamboozled 5y ago
  Just like regular hotels, there are plenty of good and bad Ryokan, I've been many times very inconvenienced by bad Ryokan staff too.
euske 5y ago
Actually this is kinda standard in Japanese ryokans. Many places offer umbrella/rain boots for rent, and hotel staffs marking pathways on their giveaway map is common. Now, it's possible that they might have went an extra mile for a clueless (as they thought) foreigner, but I find this kind of thing a little too nosy. This probably explains why many Japanese people prefer a more businesslike Western hotel today, and ryokans are more or less for foreign tourists.
- sithadmin 5y ago
  Ryokan are certainly not just for 'foreign tourists' - many have a very limited interest in serving international customers and do not making booking or staying there easy for non-Japanese speakers. They're mostly dedicated to serving Japanese nationals seeking a relaxing domestic trip for a special occasion. That said, the Japanese 'business hotel' is really a thing of beauty. They have everything a traveller truly needs, and nothing they don't. Half the time, you don't even need to speak to a human being to do predictable traveller things like check in, check out, or order breakfast. Even the most dirt cheap business hotel in Japan seems to have a shockingly large (by western standards) set of in-room amenities, and though almost trashy, the fact that you can self-serve a beer/highball/sake from the vending machine placed on every other floor for a mere ~120 yen is a nice departure from the egregiously overpriced hotel bar drinks you will find in western-style hotel bars.

by neom 5y ago

timr 5y ago

That article is a bit silly. While I'm sure it's nice, this is not one of the high-end ryokans in Kyoto, and by no means is it "the best hotel in Japan" (I lived in Kyoto, and have been there many times). Reading the reviews, it mainly sounds small and difficult to book, and it has a cult reputation. I was actually a little surprised Jobs stayed there, given that there are really high-end places where dignitaries and utra-rich people tend to stay. This particular place is not in a fancy or scenic area, though it is in a very convenient location, very near Teramachi, Sanjo, Kiyamachi, etc. Many of the elite ryokans are further out in more scenic areas (in Arashiyama, for example). The service standard in Japan is quite high, so pretty much any mid-range ryokan will provide an umbrella or making reservations for you. And if you're an internationally famous billionaire...

Marciplan 5y ago
What makes you think SJ would appreciate what the ultra-billionaire appreciates, though? :)
- bredren 5y ago
  Indeed, not all billionaires appreciate the same things.
flycaliguy 5y ago
I’m sure Steve Jobs stayed at the highest end spots elsewhere on the planet. It mentions in the article that this place is right near his favourite soba.
- timr 5y ago
  The soba place is good.
MathYouF 5y ago
Having lived in Japan for a year and reading the review of the service, it reminds me how funny it is to read foreigners reviews of Japanese customer service describing it as miraculous when Japanese would consider it standard and adequate. Truly a special culture and country, the rest of humanity could learn a lot about humility and service from Japan.
- timr 5y ago
  Yes, definitely. Travel blogs about Japan (travel blogs in general?) are usually pretty cringey for exactly that reason. It takes some time and experience to know what is unique about a culture, and what is simply the normal service/tourist mode of interaction. I try not to judge, since I'm sure that I had the same experience the first time, and it's part of what makes it fun to travel there. But I'm also not really reacting to the sincerity of the authors' amazement, as much as their lack of self-awareness when writing things like "this is the best hotel in Japan", when their sample size is clearly pretty small.
  - MathYouF 5y ago
    Oh it is assuredly not the best hotel in Kyoto, or even the nicest staff. Still, I don't doubt the service was so much better than they've experienced everywhere else in the world that they statistically just assumed it must also be exceptional by Japanese standards as well. As an interesting aside, I met a few western youngsters working in the hotel industry in Japan and they were very nice and their Japanese was very good, but they said they constantly seemed to not meet the standards their managers expected of them. The quality of service you can get at the average 7-11 there feels almost comparable to dining at a five star restaurant in NYC, and going to an average quality hotel can feel like you're a guest at the Ritz Carlton. It's because Japanese have no shame in providing excellent service to others. I feel in the US it is considered as if one is admitting they are beneath another if they provide that kind of service, maybe that's why we have a tipping culture as well, to assuage the feeling of shame that comes with service in the US. A pity the nation has a culture like that, being of service to others is something that should be considered noble and aspirational.

mattlondon 5y ago

I personally find that sort of treatment kinda irritating. Perhaps I am just too English about it, but please mind their own business. Even the guy handling your shoes knows about what you are doing with your day? Your total itinerary that someone else planned for you? No thank you. What if actually I just wanted to do my own thing and the shoe guy got it wrong? Now everyone is embarrassed while they go get your tatty shoes and cancel restaurant reservations because you just wanted to go to Starbucks and do some email today. If I had asked for those things then 110% yes, I love that decent service. But if it is all assumption...? then please leave me alone and don't think you know what I want. Kthx bai

neom 5y ago
From what he wrote, it sounds like he discussed his plans for the day with the breakfast butler, and they were able to infer based on his discussed plans what he would need (including a map with the route that they talked about marked). I also don't like to be bothered, but that would be fine enough by me.
hnlmorg 5y ago
You would have asked for them. That's the point of those kinds of services: you decide on our plans and leave the arrangements to someone else. For what it's worth, I've stopped at B&Bs in Peak District (England) where you tell them which tor you wish to hike and you're provided with a map and packed lunch.

dzhiurgis 5y ago

I was amazed by service in Ryokan too - by the time we checked in our suitcases were in our rooms. By the time we had breakfast (with lady getting on her knees and explaining everything) our futons were done (we felt a bit embarrassed leaving mess and personal items everywhere). Ryokan is one of the best experiences in travel!

m4rtink 5y ago
The Ryokan futon we got in Kinosaki are the best ones I've ever slept in, super comfy! :) And of course they magically spawned in our rooms after we returned from our last tour of the towns famous onsen for that day, perfect! :)
bamboozled 5y ago
Just like regular hotels, there are plenty of good and bad Ryokan, I've been many times very inconvenienced by bad Ryokan staff too.

euske 5y ago

Actually this is kinda standard in Japanese ryokans. Many places offer umbrella/rain boots for rent, and hotel staffs marking pathways on their giveaway map is common. Now, it's possible that they might have went an extra mile for a clueless (as they thought) foreigner, but I find this kind of thing a little too nosy. This probably explains why many Japanese people prefer a more businesslike Western hotel today, and ryokans are more or less for foreign tourists.

sithadmin 5y ago
Ryokan are certainly not just for 'foreign tourists' - many have a very limited interest in serving international customers and do not making booking or staying there easy for non-Japanese speakers. They're mostly dedicated to serving Japanese nationals seeking a relaxing domestic trip for a special occasion. That said, the Japanese 'business hotel' is really a thing of beauty. They have everything a traveller truly needs, and nothing they don't. Half the time, you don't even need to speak to a human being to do predictable traveller things like check in, check out, or order breakfast. Even the most dirt cheap business hotel in Japan seems to have a shockingly large (by western standards) set of in-room amenities, and though almost trashy, the fact that you can self-serve a beer/highball/sake from the vending machine placed on every other floor for a mere ~120 yen is a nice departure from the egregiously overpriced hotel bar drinks you will find in western-style hotel bars.