7 ms·
Ask HN: How to stop download.cnet.com from hosting my app?
download.cnet.com is hosting an ancient version of my app and I never submitted it to them or contacted them in any way. They simply stole my installer and content from my website without asking or getting permission. I won't get into my reasons for not wanting any of these download sites to offer my software. They are of course entitled to provide a link to my website and some do that and only that which is OK.
there is a link in in old HN post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2910554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2910554) that no longer works:
http://cnet-upload.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2064 http://cnet-upload.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2064
anyone know if there is good contact form or email address for any of these download sites to ask that they not offer my app?
If I am not successful getting them to comply, would a DMCA be appropriate and would I be asking for legal troubles if I submit a DCMA?
- jaked122 5y agoThis is precisely what the dcma is for
- amelius 5y agoBut it could backfire, if you can't pay for a lawyer I suppose. I suspect DMCA is for big companies with a legal department only.
- gruez 5y agoBacfire how?
- buran77 5y agoMaybe misfire is a better term. The DMCA process ends up with a lawsuit if the 2 parties don't agree. This means that the submitter of the complaint has to be ready for an expensive legal battle even if they win, or can drop the whole thing. The US justice system encourages anyone with deep enough pockets to freely step over the law when their opponent can't outspend them.
- eli 5y agoThere’s no plausible scenario where sending a DMCA notice gets you into a lawsuit you don’t want to be in.
- buran77 5y agoI said nothing about "lawsuit you don’t want to be in". A DMCA claim either ends in an agreement (CNET agrees it's infringement or the submitter agrees it's not), or else the submitter has to go to court to prove their case. As I said they can of course "drop the whole thing": avoid any lawsuit but also drop the claim. Which is where the "misfire" rather than "backfire" analogy comes from. Unlike the usual YouTube situations, CNET is both the online service provider and the party accused of infringing so the content can only go down if CNET agrees to take it down, or a court decides this.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- colejohnson66 5y agoNo. If CNET refuses to take it down, you (OP) could file a lawsuit, but CNET has no grounds to sue you for a DMCA notice that you are legally correct in sending.
- buran77 5y agoNo to which part exactly? Nothing in "ends up with a lawsuit if the 2 parties don't agree [...] or can drop the whole thing" suggests CNET can file a lawsuit. Without an agreement the only way to take down the content is a lawsuit.
- macintux 5y agoI think the fundamental dispute is this: sure, CNET could ignore the DMCA notice, but in that case the developer is in no worse shape legally than if they don't file the notice at all. So "backfire" is definitely not the right word, and "misfire" is true but not a reason to discard the best, cheapest weapon in this fight.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago> But it could backfire, if you can't pay for a lawyer I suppose. How? If anything, the biggest complaint about the DMCA is that it has no penalties even against people acting in obviously unreasonable ways. > I suspect DMCA is for big companies with a legal department only. No? Looks like you just send a certified letter to the address listed at https://www.redventures.com/legal/cmg-terms-of-use.html https://www.redventures.com/legal/cmg-terms-of-use.html under "Legal Complaints" and you're done. (IANAL, of course, but nothing here seems special)
- teddyh 5y agoAre they violating your copyright? Does the license of the software which they obtained allow them to give copies away? If not, then this is a straight case of copyright infringement.
- donmcronald 5y agoI don’t know about your options, but download it and see if it’s actually your installer or if someone has modified it.
- ivraatiems 5y agoIf the version of your software they are hosting is subject to a non-permissive license, you should simply be able to tell them so and theoretically, they're obligated to take it down. The DMCA may or may not be precisely the right tool (license violation and copyright violation are similar but not 100% the same thing), but it should also work OK. (IANAL, but this is my experience.) If your software is MIT licensed or similar, you can still ask, but you're probably SOL if they don't agree to remove it. With those kinds of licenses, they're under no obligation to remove it just because you ask them. Simply contacting them at any of the email addresses listed here: https://www.cnet.com/about/contact-us/ https://www.cnet.com/about/contact-us/ or calling them should get you routed to the right person eventually. You could also try generic emails like legal@cnet.com, abuse@cnet.com, dmca@cnet.com, etc. In the worst case, here's a list of CNet employees: https://www.cnet.com/about/meet-us/ https://www.cnet.com/about/meet-us/ - figure out their email format (e.g. firstname.lastname@cnet.com) and shoot them some emails. However, you should be prepared for them to simply do nothing unless/until there's an attorney involved. Do you stand to lose income or receive some other kind of material injury if they don't take it down? Edit: The help center at the bottom of the Download site took me here: https://cbsi.secure.force.com/CBSi/articles/en_US/Knowledge/Copyright-complaints?retURL=%2FCBSi%2Fapex%2Fknowledgehome%3FsfdcIFrameOrigin%3Dnull&popup=false&categories=CBS_Interactive%3ACNETDownload&template=template_download&referer=dl.com&data=&cfs=SFS_Download https://cbsi.secure.force.com/CBSi/articles/en_US/Knowledge/... - this might be what you want?
- teddyh 5y ago> (license violation and copyright violation are similar but not 100% the same thing) How? Absent a license, there is nothing permitting the redistributing of software. There is no such thing as a “license violation”; if you do not fulfill the terms of the license, you have no license to distribute, and are violating copyright.
- dataflow 5y agoOne example: "If the licensing agreement states that a licensee will have to pay additional fees for use beyond the scope of the agreement, a breach of the licensing agreement on these grounds generally will be considered a breach of contract, rather than copyright infringement." https://www.romanolaw.com/2020/01/13/is-breach-of-a-licensing-agreement-considered-a-breach-of-contract-or-copyright-infringement/ https://www.romanolaw.com/2020/01/13/is-breach-of-a-licensin...
- textman 5y agoOP here. thanks for the suggested links which I will try. I hope I don]t offend any open source folks here but this is commercial software with a EULA that clearly states the software may not be redistributed without written permission so it is a license violation and has cost me some $. I found out from a potential customer that alerted me to this and said he thought my software being on sleazy download sites creates a bad image for me. I am a tiny, 1 person bootstrapped operation so I really don't want to go the DMCA route if I can avoid it.
- morpheuskafka 5y agoIn that case you are definitely in the right position legally. The DMCA is about as simple as it gets. No lawyer is needed, its just a form letter. Most likely they will just take it down, only if the uploader submitted a counter-notice would you have to take further legal action.
- geocrasher 5y agoAgreed. A DMCA is the correct route, won't cost you anything, and will work. Be sure to send it to their upstream providers too.
- judge2020 5y ago> Be sure to send it to their upstream providers too. Not immediately. > we recommend that you submit a notification pursuant to the DMCA directly to the originating site. In order for a DMCA takedown notice to a system caching service provider to be effective under 17 U.S.C. 512(b), the notice provider must demonstrate either (a) that the content has already been removed from the originating site or (b) the notice provider has obtained a court order requiring the content be removed from the originating site or access to the content to be disabled. https://www.fastly.com/acceptable-use/ https://www.fastly.com/acceptable-use/
- geocrasher 5y agoI work in the web hosting industry. A lot of times people will only send dmca complaints to our upstream providers. Those upstream providers require us to take that information offline or else they'll actually cut off our access. It's a dirty tactic but it is effective.
- gumby 5y agoNo matter how slimy CNET is (and that is very slimy) I don’t really consider it “stealing” that they downloaded something you specifically provided as a download. But they do a lot of misrepresentation (apart from other slimy things) and you are well within your rights to object. As another posted commented: this is what filling a dmca claim is for, and you can do it without paying a lawyer or anyone else. The only problem is whom to send it to. You’ll find that CNET’s download is actually download.com. You’ll have to start there.
- mannykannot 5y ago> I don’t really consider it “stealing” that they downloaded something you specifically provided as a download. AFICS, The issue is not that they downloaded it, but that they are hosting it.
- textman 5y agothey wrap my installer inside their installer which includes some sort of toolbar I am checking out before I finish installing it because I read some reports it is malware.
- gumby 5y agoUgh, that’s even more disgusting than I thought, and that kind of thing is like “stealing” — your reputation in this case. Good luck with dmca, possibly a trademark fraud case too, which could have actual financial consequences for them.
- hermitcrab 5y agoIf so, that is horrible behaviour on their part.
- blooalien 5y agoVile beyond any stretch of reason. Here's hoping you find a valid way to "put them in their place" as it were… Wishing you the absolute best of luck handling/resolving this.
- avipars 5y agoSend a DMCA to them. They'll either comply or ignore it in most cases.
- Silhouette 5y agoPeople are suggesting sending a DMCA takedown notice, but is download.cnet.com hosting OP's software because a user has uploaded it? If they have chosen to host it themselves, why isn't this ordinary copyright infringement for which the operators of the site would be liable without any safe harbor under the DMCA to protect them in the first place? The US legal system provides for considerable damages in cases of copyright infringement, so if there is reasonable evidence for a claim and OP believes they have lost money as a result of the infringing hosting, an initial discussion with a real IP lawyer might be a more useful starting point for OP here.
- miki_tyler 5y agoYour app could show a popup, warning that a new version is available together with a link or an alternative mechanism to download the latest version from your website. Obviously your app cannot do this now. Hope this could be useful to others in the future.
- allyourhorses 5y agoFor the future, and as a Windows/OSX-specific hack, there are HFS/NTFS extended attributes attached to any downloaded file indicating the domain/URL it came from. You could introspect this and refuse to run the installer with a suitably angry message. edit: ah sucks, seems on Windows this only gives you the network zone the file came from, not the URL. I think on OS X it is definitely the URL though https://superuser.com/questions/1513910/windows-extended-attribute-to-determine-where-file-was-downloaded-from https://superuser.com/questions/1513910/windows-extended-att...
- Something1234 5y ago> The "hint" you are referring to is the Zone.Identifier - which only tells you what internet zone it was downloaded from (trusted, internet or untrusted). It's only available for browser downloads to an NTFS disk ~ from the superuser link above. So what actual use is this small field? Wouldn't it be more useful for windows to provide the url and some function to determine if it was trusted?
- allyourhorses 5y agoI can see how they ended up with an attribute that did not duplicate a potentially private URL. Consider downloading from an Intranet and copying to a USB pen that is then handed over to a customer It also freezes in place the network policy active at the time of download. Would personally still prefer the URL!
- not2b 5y agoShort answer: file a DMCA takedown notice if you want them to stop violating your copyright (distributing it without permission). Anything else is wasting time; they will ignore polite letters.
- shaicoleman 5y agoFirst thing to try is the "Report Software" link, and say that you're the author, and it's against the EULA to redistribute the software, and you will take legal action if it's not removed with x days. Just the threat of legal action may be enough to get them to remove it.
- andix 5y agoI always do something like that, if a company doesn't treat me well. Quite often it works. The important thing is to set a reasonable deadline.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rambojazz 5y agoDid they alter your app in any way? Did you check the hashes?
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoDownload.com used to put a wrapper around other peoples software, I'm not sure if they still do this.