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Weren't Intel to use TSMC on 5nm in 2H 2021? -- https://www.extremetech.com/computing/319301-report-intel-will-outsource-core-i3-production-to-tsmcs-5nm-node ht

Weren't Intel to use TSMC on 5nm in 2H 2021? -- https://www.extremetech.com/computing/319301-report-intel-will-outsource-core-i3-production-to-tsmcs-5nm-node https://www.extremetech.com/computing/319301-report-intel-wi... I doubt Intel would move any of their core designs across to TSMC. Only fringe products... Its not like their CPU designs port across natively and from my understanding, they would have to have an entirely different team that would work with TSMCs IP.

xiphias2 5y ago
You can't have fringe products on 3nm, they have to be profitable ones. It seems like a risky, but exciting strategy. I prefer that over the old boring Intel.
- sharken 5y ago
  It's a much better strategy for sure, as for AMD it seems that hard times are ahead if they can not move to 3nm after 5nm. It seems very likely that AMD has no other option than moving most of their products to Samsung 3nm. I hope that works out as the competition is needed. https://www.gizmochina.com/2021/02/02/amd-outsource-gpu-apu-production-to-samsung-semiconductor/ https://www.gizmochina.com/2021/02/02/amd-outsource-gpu-apu-...
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Samsung's fabs have been getting better and better over the years, we could see a surprise blowout on the 3nm node. Hell, just the other day Samsung was testing an RDNA2 iGPU that was faster than the GPU on the iPhone 12... on the 7nm node. I'm no expert here, but AMD might finally have the silicon it needs to compete with Nvidia in raw compute.
    - atty 5y ago
      That’s exciting news, but I can’t help but feel that at least in my field (machine learning), Nvidia is far more sticky than just their compute dominance. As long as CUDA is Nvidia proprietary, I just don’t think our team can afford to move. I’m seeing lots of very impressive movements from Tensorflow and Pytorch to support ROCm, but it’s just not at a level yet where it would make good business sense for us to switch, even if AMD GPUs were 50% faster than Nvidia. And it seems like Nvidia is improving and widening their compute stack faster than AMD is catching up.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        I'm right there with you, I have an Nvidia GPU on all my machines too. With that being said, however, there are plenty of software-agnostic workloads that I run that could benefit from a truly open, powerful GPU.
baybal2 5y ago
From my passing birdie, Intel will still be doing TSMC 5nm, but chose to announce the far in the future 3nm first because it "sounds big," and make it look as if they are ahead of AMD to Wall street people. I haven't heard anything certain of AMD, but they are guaranteed to do very aggressive TSMC roadmap following, being fully aware that cutting edge node capacity is bought years in advance, and that Intel wanted it for the last ~3 years. They probably simply don't have things set in stone for so far in the future.
- belval 5y ago
  It's not to impress wall street, so much as they can hijack TSMC production and constrain AMD's volume.
  - adventured 5y ago
    Exactly. Intel's profits are still running near all-time record highs (which is 12x that of AMD). They can trivially constrain AMD by taking away their access to fabrication, buy as much of it out as possible. If nothing else it'll buy them more time to try to dig out of their mess.
    - andy_ppp 5y ago
      Surely that would be anti competitive in the extreme? I'm surprised TSMC are just taking the money now... I'd be really surprised if Intel don't learn a load of tricks as the drill into getting silicon onto a different fab provider - both about their own processes and the underlying details of the technology.
      - zsmi 5y ago
        > Surely that would be anti competitive in the extreme? Now prove it. TSMC accepts paying customers. Intel is a paying customer too. Haven't we spent years bemoning how Intel is behind TSMC? It seems natural Intel would take advantage of TSMC's expertise if they are ahead. And Intel probably is happy to use TSMC. Two rabbits with one shot. Even if you could prove it, where do you plan to file the complaint?

xiphias2 5y ago

You can't have fringe products on 3nm, they have to be profitable ones. It seems like a risky, but exciting strategy. I prefer that over the old boring Intel.

sharken 5y ago
It's a much better strategy for sure, as for AMD it seems that hard times are ahead if they can not move to 3nm after 5nm. It seems very likely that AMD has no other option than moving most of their products to Samsung 3nm. I hope that works out as the competition is needed. https://www.gizmochina.com/2021/02/02/amd-outsource-gpu-apu-production-to-samsung-semiconductor/ https://www.gizmochina.com/2021/02/02/amd-outsource-gpu-apu-...
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Samsung's fabs have been getting better and better over the years, we could see a surprise blowout on the 3nm node. Hell, just the other day Samsung was testing an RDNA2 iGPU that was faster than the GPU on the iPhone 12... on the 7nm node. I'm no expert here, but AMD might finally have the silicon it needs to compete with Nvidia in raw compute.
  - atty 5y ago
    That’s exciting news, but I can’t help but feel that at least in my field (machine learning), Nvidia is far more sticky than just their compute dominance. As long as CUDA is Nvidia proprietary, I just don’t think our team can afford to move. I’m seeing lots of very impressive movements from Tensorflow and Pytorch to support ROCm, but it’s just not at a level yet where it would make good business sense for us to switch, even if AMD GPUs were 50% faster than Nvidia. And it seems like Nvidia is improving and widening their compute stack faster than AMD is catching up.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      I'm right there with you, I have an Nvidia GPU on all my machines too. With that being said, however, there are plenty of software-agnostic workloads that I run that could benefit from a truly open, powerful GPU.

baybal2 5y ago

From my passing birdie, Intel will still be doing TSMC 5nm, but chose to announce the far in the future 3nm first because it "sounds big," and make it look as if they are ahead of AMD to Wall street people. I haven't heard anything certain of AMD, but they are guaranteed to do very aggressive TSMC roadmap following, being fully aware that cutting edge node capacity is bought years in advance, and that Intel wanted it for the last ~3 years. They probably simply don't have things set in stone for so far in the future.

belval 5y ago
It's not to impress wall street, so much as they can hijack TSMC production and constrain AMD's volume.
- adventured 5y ago
  Exactly. Intel's profits are still running near all-time record highs (which is 12x that of AMD). They can trivially constrain AMD by taking away their access to fabrication, buy as much of it out as possible. If nothing else it'll buy them more time to try to dig out of their mess.
  - andy_ppp 5y ago
    Surely that would be anti competitive in the extreme? I'm surprised TSMC are just taking the money now... I'd be really surprised if Intel don't learn a load of tricks as the drill into getting silicon onto a different fab provider - both about their own processes and the underlying details of the technology.
    - zsmi 5y ago
      > Surely that would be anti competitive in the extreme? Now prove it. TSMC accepts paying customers. Intel is a paying customer too. Haven't we spent years bemoning how Intel is behind TSMC? It seems natural Intel would take advantage of TSMC's expertise if they are ahead. And Intel probably is happy to use TSMC. Two rabbits with one shot. Even if you could prove it, where do you plan to file the complaint?