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I guess it is downvoted because we don't know for sure whether this incident is caused by climate change, or forest mismanagement or maybe forest fire happens t

I guess it is downvoted because we don't know for sure whether this incident is caused by climate change, or forest mismanagement or maybe forest fire happens there every second year and it is normal. Don't get me wrong. Climate change is real. But these blunt claims like "it was raining today and the same day last year there was no rain so we are all doomed" hurt more than help dealing with the issue. We need more statistics. We need to make less conclusion from single incidents.

orthecreedence 5y ago
> single incidents. Yes, dozens of them, year after year! Nothing to see here. Def not climate change tho, just a coincidence.
- winphone1974 5y ago
  We mock the deniers who pick single events to disprove climate change, so we need to be held to the same standard. It doesn't matter how many crazy bad events happen, they're symptoms. You need to focus on the underlying causes; the macro trends
lhorie 5y ago
GP didn't mention global warming though. They're just observing that there appears to be an awful lot of bad things happening lately. Re: climate change, I don't quite get the call for "less conclusions from single incidents". It's not like research is non-existent or contradictory, is it? Just a quick google search leads me to articles like this[0] saying there's well over 300 studies supporting the idea that extreme weather events can be blamed on humans. I feel like saying "correlation is not causation" when the world is quite literally on fire is about as close as it gets to the "this is fine" meme... [0] https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-how-climate-change-affects-extreme-weather-around-the-world https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-how-climate-change-affect...
- asteroidbelt 5y ago
  > They're just observing that there appears to be an awful lot of bad things happening lately. OK, then present statistics (not you, but everyone who try to convince climate change from single incidents). Individual incidents only damage the cause. Fires happened all the time in the last million years. One can't come to correct conclusions about they getting more frequent from their personal observation of news feed. > Just a quick google search leads me to articles like this As I said, I'm not denying climate change, global warming, increased frequency of forest fires etc. Just don't be (not you) religious pro-climate-change fanatic indistinguishable from client-change-denier fanatic. Present data, studies.
  - lhorie 5y ago
    > Fires happened all the time in the last million years No offense, but this sounds awfully like the "temperature rises occurred before" rhetoric, while ignoring magnitude[0] Yes forest fires can be natural, but for this specific one, another comment upthread mentioned it potentially being linked to a history of illegal logging. The melting of the polar cap has been documented fairly thoroughly, and I already mentioned the existence of studies about extreme weather. We know for fact that there's a strong relationship between our polluting ways and arctic ice melting, and that there's a relationship between that and extreme weather events. Hopefully it shouldn't take a PhD to figure out irresponsible human-made logging fires + record high temperatures are a recipe for disaster(tm) Personally, I think we're a little past the "show us the data" territory. "Seriously, WTF?" might be more in order at this point. [0] https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/
    - asteroidbelt 5y ago
      No offence, but I'm afraid you didn't read my comment. So I'll repeat it again using different words. Maybe climate change is real, maybe it is not. If it is real, it maybe nothing, maybe dangerous, maybe catastrophic. I have some opinion about that (and I clearly stated it in another comments), but this is not the point here. The point is: stop presenting examples as a proof of that we are all doomed. People who are doing that are not different from people who present individual cases as a proof that everything's fine. Only data, statistics and large scale studies matter.
throw1212 5y ago
It was likely downvoted at the time because it adds little to the discussion. It just laundry-lists some disasters. Disasters occur every year, with the caveat that we may know about more of them for various reasons including more information being gathered and more information being disseminated. Unfortunately, the dipshit comment (now flagged) a couple of replies above yours catapulted the other dipshit comment into upvote territory because despite its total lack of substance, people had to upvote it as some kind of political statement. Yeah, how dare this be downvoted, it's a very important comment (stating nothing of importance) about how disaster is happening everywhere all the time with zero nuance or introspection about why this might be! Le upvote!
- vaer-k 5y ago
  Did you create a throwaway account just to call me a dipshit? For asking an earnest question? I was just interested in why the comment was being voted down, because I'm interested in learning more about the community's standards and moderation policies. I'd also like to know what my comment was flagged for, but I guess that's out of the question too. It's not very fun being censored with no explanation whatsoever. Why did you jump to so many conclusions and resort so quickly to namecalling?

orthecreedence 5y ago

> single incidents. Yes, dozens of them, year after year! Nothing to see here. Def not climate change tho, just a coincidence.

winphone1974 5y ago
We mock the deniers who pick single events to disprove climate change, so we need to be held to the same standard. It doesn't matter how many crazy bad events happen, they're symptoms. You need to focus on the underlying causes; the macro trends

lhorie 5y ago

GP didn't mention global warming though. They're just observing that there appears to be an awful lot of bad things happening lately. Re: climate change, I don't quite get the call for "less conclusions from single incidents". It's not like research is non-existent or contradictory, is it? Just a quick google search leads me to articles like this[0] saying there's well over 300 studies supporting the idea that extreme weather events can be blamed on humans. I feel like saying "correlation is not causation" when the world is quite literally on fire is about as close as it gets to the "this is fine" meme... [0] https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-how-climate-change-affects-extreme-weather-around-the-world https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-how-climate-change-affect...

asteroidbelt 5y ago
> They're just observing that there appears to be an awful lot of bad things happening lately. OK, then present statistics (not you, but everyone who try to convince climate change from single incidents). Individual incidents only damage the cause. Fires happened all the time in the last million years. One can't come to correct conclusions about they getting more frequent from their personal observation of news feed. > Just a quick google search leads me to articles like this As I said, I'm not denying climate change, global warming, increased frequency of forest fires etc. Just don't be (not you) religious pro-climate-change fanatic indistinguishable from client-change-denier fanatic. Present data, studies.
- lhorie 5y ago
  > Fires happened all the time in the last million years No offense, but this sounds awfully like the "temperature rises occurred before" rhetoric, while ignoring magnitude[0] Yes forest fires can be natural, but for this specific one, another comment upthread mentioned it potentially being linked to a history of illegal logging. The melting of the polar cap has been documented fairly thoroughly, and I already mentioned the existence of studies about extreme weather. We know for fact that there's a strong relationship between our polluting ways and arctic ice melting, and that there's a relationship between that and extreme weather events. Hopefully it shouldn't take a PhD to figure out irresponsible human-made logging fires + record high temperatures are a recipe for disaster(tm) Personally, I think we're a little past the "show us the data" territory. "Seriously, WTF?" might be more in order at this point. [0] https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/
  - asteroidbelt 5y ago
    No offence, but I'm afraid you didn't read my comment. So I'll repeat it again using different words. Maybe climate change is real, maybe it is not. If it is real, it maybe nothing, maybe dangerous, maybe catastrophic. I have some opinion about that (and I clearly stated it in another comments), but this is not the point here. The point is: stop presenting examples as a proof of that we are all doomed. People who are doing that are not different from people who present individual cases as a proof that everything's fine. Only data, statistics and large scale studies matter.

throw1212 5y ago

It was likely downvoted at the time because it adds little to the discussion. It just laundry-lists some disasters. Disasters occur every year, with the caveat that we may know about more of them for various reasons including more information being gathered and more information being disseminated. Unfortunately, the dipshit comment (now flagged) a couple of replies above yours catapulted the other dipshit comment into upvote territory because despite its total lack of substance, people had to upvote it as some kind of political statement. Yeah, how dare this be downvoted, it's a very important comment (stating nothing of importance) about how disaster is happening everywhere all the time with zero nuance or introspection about why this might be! Le upvote!

vaer-k 5y ago
Did you create a throwaway account just to call me a dipshit? For asking an earnest question? I was just interested in why the comment was being voted down, because I'm interested in learning more about the community's standards and moderation policies. I'd also like to know what my comment was flagged for, but I guess that's out of the question too. It's not very fun being censored with no explanation whatsoever. Why did you jump to so many conclusions and resort so quickly to namecalling?