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I like how unicorns can do such hiring challenges while normal companies are desperate for people to apply. I think my current company would hire anyone who can

I like how unicorns can do such hiring challenges while normal companies are desperate for people to apply. I think my current company would hire anyone who can breath and write 3 lines of code per month, but no one fitting these criteria applies.

onion2k 5y ago
I can write 4 lines of code per month, so I guess I'm overqualified.
- speedgoose 5y ago
  Do they work ?
  - reificator 5y ago
    Oh, now we're moving the goalposts eh?
  - malux85 5y ago
    On my machine, yes
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    They've got +3 on StackOverflow so fully peer reviewed.
gccs 5y ago
There is a shortage of engineers because companies don't want to pay them what their worth.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  This gets spouted all the time on HN, and I find it rarely to be true, or at least a gross oversimplification. In my experience what usually happens is a programmer's "worth" is hugely dependent on the scale of the organization, moreso than nearly every other individual contributor-level role, which means that smaller orgs have an extremely difficult time competing with larger orgs. For example, suppose at some company there is a business process that generates $1 billion in annual revenue, and a programmer has implemented something that can increase that by, say, .2%. So the programmer's "worth" in that situation is 2 million dollars. A much smaller company only does $10 million in annual revenue, so the commensurate .2% improvement is only worth 20k. This is a gross oversimplification, of course, but it really gets to the heart of way the FAANGS can pay such huge salaries and suck up a lot of the best talent. It's not that all the other companies are being stingy, it's just that in many cases they can't pay a programmer anywhere near what a FAANG can because that programmer just can't generate that much business value at a smaller company.
  - lostcolony 5y ago
    It kinda goes the other way too though, no? A business generating $1 billion in revenue might have 10k employees. A smaller company doing $10 million in revenue might have 100. The commensurate value of a given employee is not that different. And the number of employees also affects the types of efficiencies you can introduce; the likelihood of finding something that will increase revenue at a higher percentage for a large company is drastically lower than the likelihood of finding something that will increase revenue at a higher percentage for a small company. And that's if it's percentage based in the first place, rather than fixed savings. Anyway, relatedly, it has more to do with the fact that a lot of the leading tech companies have a high amount of revenue -per employee-. That is, revenue/employee = big number. There's a few different reasons for that, but that's the main thing. Per the example above, it's really more like a company doing $1 billion in revenue has 10k employees, and another doing $100 million has 5k employees. Obviously the former has more to spend on employees, as they're generating more with fewer.
  - repsilat 5y ago
    An annoying and more complicated (but perhaps not less accurate) heuristic is that the revenue of the company is related to the sum of prior work. For a product company, the number of features drives use more than the rate of new features being added. Under that model taken as-is there are some interesting features: - The company could fire all the engineers and coast if the product is "done". Mostly reasonable, though products are never done. - More "solve for the equilibrium", engineers are paid for the present value of their contributions rather than some proportion of current revenues. Depends on the company either being well-funded, paying in stock, or being able to take on debt. Again, rings true-ish? Hard to measure so obviously expected present value will differ greatly from the actual value.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  The only reason there's a shortage of housing is because people don't want to pay what housing is worth.
  - z3t4 5y ago
    If there is a house shortage - prices will go up - the problem with the dev job market is that's its a market for lemons. You cant tell if someone is a good dev unless you yourself is a good dev.
    - lostcolony 5y ago
      Not even then, until you've hired them. Interviewing is a joke.
      - fapjacks 5y ago
        Yeah, and even "good engineers" can take jobs that they don't do well at. It's weird how this works and seems in many cases not related only to the job or type of work, but many factors both on and off the job. I think this is the reason hiring is so hard, because there are factors not taken into account that have a real effect on how well a person does at some particular job.
  - harry8 5y ago
    There is no housing shortage among the rich. There may be a profit shortage among companies claiming they can't find people to hire.
- adrianN 5y ago
  There is a shortage of engineers if companies can't afford to pay them.
michaelcampbell 5y ago
What's the work, and the pay? Those 2 things will play big roles more than a dearth of candidates. Told my son for years if you want to make more money, find something to do that no else wants to. Turns out the same is on the hiring side.
- speedgoose 5y ago
  Very average IT work in healt-care. Glorified CRUD plus some. Pay is average too.
  - infinite8s 5y ago
    What does average mean in this case?
    - bombcar 5y ago
      Low.
    - speedgoose 5y ago
      Average, according to the data collected by the government and the unions.
  - eps 5y ago
    "You get what you pay for" as they say. Your company needs to revise what they mean by "average."
  - smabie 5y ago
    Then pay more?
    - speedgoose 5y ago
      I wish yes.
- airhead969 5y ago
  Schlepping.. embrace the suck for $$. Really nasty, lots of headaches, complexity, risks, and/or people think it's magic.
porphyra 5y ago
I think public hiring challenges like this are less of a barrier that filters out candidates, and more of an attractor that increases the number of applicants by "nerd sniping" people.
- speedgoose 5y ago
  You need a strong brand and good marketing to attract people with a challenge. A normal company has difficulties to reach people.
satya71 5y ago
Are you hiring on-site or remote? Which country?
harry8 5y ago
Tells us their price point is below market for competent let alone good.
deviledeggs 5y ago
I can get 250k a year from a unicorn. Why would I apply anywhere else?

onion2k 5y ago

I can write 4 lines of code per month, so I guess I'm overqualified.

speedgoose 5y ago
Do they work ?
- reificator 5y ago
  Oh, now we're moving the goalposts eh?
- malux85 5y ago
  On my machine, yes
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  They've got +3 on StackOverflow so fully peer reviewed.

gccs 5y ago

There is a shortage of engineers because companies don't want to pay them what their worth.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
This gets spouted all the time on HN, and I find it rarely to be true, or at least a gross oversimplification. In my experience what usually happens is a programmer's "worth" is hugely dependent on the scale of the organization, moreso than nearly every other individual contributor-level role, which means that smaller orgs have an extremely difficult time competing with larger orgs. For example, suppose at some company there is a business process that generates $1 billion in annual revenue, and a programmer has implemented something that can increase that by, say, .2%. So the programmer's "worth" in that situation is 2 million dollars. A much smaller company only does $10 million in annual revenue, so the commensurate .2% improvement is only worth 20k. This is a gross oversimplification, of course, but it really gets to the heart of way the FAANGS can pay such huge salaries and suck up a lot of the best talent. It's not that all the other companies are being stingy, it's just that in many cases they can't pay a programmer anywhere near what a FAANG can because that programmer just can't generate that much business value at a smaller company.
- lostcolony 5y ago
  It kinda goes the other way too though, no? A business generating $1 billion in revenue might have 10k employees. A smaller company doing $10 million in revenue might have 100. The commensurate value of a given employee is not that different. And the number of employees also affects the types of efficiencies you can introduce; the likelihood of finding something that will increase revenue at a higher percentage for a large company is drastically lower than the likelihood of finding something that will increase revenue at a higher percentage for a small company. And that's if it's percentage based in the first place, rather than fixed savings. Anyway, relatedly, it has more to do with the fact that a lot of the leading tech companies have a high amount of revenue -per employee-. That is, revenue/employee = big number. There's a few different reasons for that, but that's the main thing. Per the example above, it's really more like a company doing $1 billion in revenue has 10k employees, and another doing $100 million has 5k employees. Obviously the former has more to spend on employees, as they're generating more with fewer.
- repsilat 5y ago
  An annoying and more complicated (but perhaps not less accurate) heuristic is that the revenue of the company is related to the sum of prior work. For a product company, the number of features drives use more than the rate of new features being added. Under that model taken as-is there are some interesting features: - The company could fire all the engineers and coast if the product is "done". Mostly reasonable, though products are never done. - More "solve for the equilibrium", engineers are paid for the present value of their contributions rather than some proportion of current revenues. Depends on the company either being well-funded, paying in stock, or being able to take on debt. Again, rings true-ish? Hard to measure so obviously expected present value will differ greatly from the actual value.
WalterBright 5y ago
The only reason there's a shortage of housing is because people don't want to pay what housing is worth.
- z3t4 5y ago
  If there is a house shortage - prices will go up - the problem with the dev job market is that's its a market for lemons. You cant tell if someone is a good dev unless you yourself is a good dev.
  - lostcolony 5y ago
    Not even then, until you've hired them. Interviewing is a joke.
    - fapjacks 5y ago
      Yeah, and even "good engineers" can take jobs that they don't do well at. It's weird how this works and seems in many cases not related only to the job or type of work, but many factors both on and off the job. I think this is the reason hiring is so hard, because there are factors not taken into account that have a real effect on how well a person does at some particular job.
- harry8 5y ago
  There is no housing shortage among the rich. There may be a profit shortage among companies claiming they can't find people to hire.
adrianN 5y ago
There is a shortage of engineers if companies can't afford to pay them.

michaelcampbell 5y ago

What's the work, and the pay? Those 2 things will play big roles more than a dearth of candidates. Told my son for years if you want to make more money, find something to do that no else wants to. Turns out the same is on the hiring side.

speedgoose 5y ago
Very average IT work in healt-care. Glorified CRUD plus some. Pay is average too.
- infinite8s 5y ago
  What does average mean in this case?
  - bombcar 5y ago
    Low.
  - speedgoose 5y ago
    Average, according to the data collected by the government and the unions.
- eps 5y ago
  "You get what you pay for" as they say. Your company needs to revise what they mean by "average."
- smabie 5y ago
  Then pay more?
  - speedgoose 5y ago
    I wish yes.
airhead969 5y ago
Schlepping.. embrace the suck for $$. Really nasty, lots of headaches, complexity, risks, and/or people think it's magic.

porphyra 5y ago

I think public hiring challenges like this are less of a barrier that filters out candidates, and more of an attractor that increases the number of applicants by "nerd sniping" people.

speedgoose 5y ago
You need a strong brand and good marketing to attract people with a challenge. A normal company has difficulties to reach people.

satya71 5y ago

Are you hiring on-site or remote? Which country?

harry8 5y ago

Tells us their price point is below market for competent let alone good.

deviledeggs 5y ago

I can get 250k a year from a unicorn. Why would I apply anywhere else?