5 ms·

The film The Game Changers has plenty of examples of thriving humans on a vegan diet, it is the opposite of what you claim. You are just showing a bias.

wyager 5y ago
> The film The Game Changers has plenty of examples of thriving humans on a vegan diet… You are just showing a bias. I am showing a bias and the silly vegan propaganda movie isn’t? OK. Btw, if you want some examples of veganism not working as advertised, look up the ongoing “vegans: the epitome of malnourishment” series on YouTube. It tracks various vegan influencers throughout the years.
- happytoexplain 5y ago
  I tend to avoid the word "propaganda" where I think the term "one-sided" would qualitatively suffice, but those YouTube videos are fairly close to the definition of propaganda. The series is essentially one of the common hate-driven cherry-picking machines the internet is constructed out of. This is coming from me, a non-vegan who thinks that adequate nutrition is much more difficult for vegans, and therefore by the very laws of statistics, if that assumption is true, then vegans are in fact on average less well-nourished compared to people with adequate access to food and no dietary restrictions.
- ElijahLynn 5y ago
  Have you watched it?
- uxcolumbo 5y ago
  Replace "vegan" with "stop cruelty". It's not a diet. It's a mindset not wanting to cause unnecessary suffering. Why would you want to continue funding a cruel and biosphere destroying industry (factory farming) if you don't need their products to survive. In our society eating animal flesh is mostly to experience culinary pleasures. If you look at it from a logical perspective, it doesn't make sense, all that waste and inefficiencies in that system - tech folks should appreciate that. Veganism doesn't mean you're automatically on a healthy diet. You can be vegan on Pringles and Coke. Game Changers just shows you can thrive at an athletic level on a plant based diet. We humans gave up other horrific practices from the past - so the future is vegan (reduced cruelty), but we don't have to wait - we can start now.
  - wyager 5y ago
    > It's not a diet. It's a mindset not wanting to cause unnecessary suffering. This religious marketing isn’t helping your cause. > Why would you want to continue funding a cruel I am strictly opposed to animal cruelty. Killing animals at all is a net negative for me. However, it’s not my primary concern and I also don’t think the marginal improvement veganism provides animals is significant. > and biosphere destroying This is mostly bullshit. > (factory farming) I am opposed to the most abysmal methods of meat production. > if you don't need their products to survive. I need them to be healthy. Vegans can object all they want but the truth is right there for me to see. Whenever a scrawny balding vegan with sunken eyes tells me they’re perfectly healthy, I know they’re deluded and not giving me good advice. > Game Changers just shows you can thrive at an athletic level on a plant based diet. It’s a few cherry picked examples. In reality going vegan will tank your athletic performance and injury resistance. https://www.lonesomelands.com/new-blog/2019/9/16/t2amoscp1u1ynq1ms3sk9shr5ewlvj https://www.lonesomelands.com/new-blog/2019/9/16/t2amoscp1u1... > We humans gave up other horrific practices from the past - so the future is vegan (reduced cruelty) I actually agree with you on this. People in the future will view animal consumption like we view slavery. > but we don't have to wait - we can start now. Unfortunately this is not true, if we want to stay healthy. Give it 100 years and maybe the tech will be where it needs to be.
    - uxcolumbo 5y ago
      Thanks for commenting in a more civil manner and agreeing that where most of the meat comes from (factory farming) is abysmal. > This religious marketing isn’t helping your cause. Why is it religious marketing? What is religious about it? It's about ethics - not religion. Most humans not practicing slavery for example, is that also being religious? What's wrong with having moral principles? We say killing other humans is wrong. We say animal cruelty is wrong and yet a lot of humans practice or support it on a daily basis. Mostly because people don't know the reality of where their animal meat comes from and what the externalities are. This is down to some very good propaganda campaigns by the meat and dairy industry actually. Funny that there are things like Ag-Gag laws. What is this industry afraid of? That people would find out how horrific it is and god forbid making the right choice and not buy their products anymore? There is also the human cost. Could you work in a factory farm? Or just a slaughter house that kills any animals whether from factory farms or 'happy' farms? Could you kill animals day in day out, hearing their screams, smelling the blood and feces? Reports by folks who did that said they had to suppress their compassion and actually suffered from PTSD. A guest on Joe Rogan's show said he worked in that industry and couldn't last more than 2 weeks and he was an MMA guy, so could be considered tough. > This is mostly bullshit. Can you provide your sources? My comment was based on studies by the UN, Oxford University and other academic sources [0] [1]. Not just merely a blog post by some bloke with an opinion. > It’s a few cherry picked examples. And yet you're cherry picking yourself. Here are more athletes who chose to give up meat: https://www.greatveganathletes.com/all-athletes/ https://www.greatveganathletes.com/all-athletes/ - it's a long list. Have you actually watched the documentary? It's funny - the creator of the documentary, ex MMA fighter, actually said his performance went up. This is echoed by many other athletes. But they didn't say they are injury resistant. But most of us are not professional athletes, so it's a moot point. But if we chose to operate at a more athletic level, a plant based diet can still provide all we need. If you choose not to pay for cruelty - you still have to make an effort to eat healthily, which is easier to find out how nowadays. We are not carnivores. Yes we can eat meat, but it's not required for our survival if we have other food sources. > I need them to be healthy. You can be healthy on a plant-based diet. Check this resource by medical experts: https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/plant-based-diets/nutrition-faq https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/plant-based-diets/nutrit... If people absolutely can't give up animal meat, then at least hunt or raise and kill your own to ensure that suffering can be minimized to an absolute minimal level. But guess what, most of us couldn't do that and it's not scalable. ---- [0] https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/nature-decline-unprecedented-report/ https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/natur... [1] https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-environmental-cost-food https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-environme...
nradov 5y ago
That movie is biased propaganda advocating a particular diet, not a proper scientific study. You can certainly cherry pick a few elite athletes who perform well on vegan diets, but the vast majority of elite athletes are omnivores. Ever some of the movie subjects ate certain animal products such as eggs. If you search around a bit you'll also find numerous anecdotal reports from elite athletes who tried vegan diets and found that they seemed to have more difficulty recovering from injuries. There seem to be some subtle nutritional deficiencies which aren't fully captured in the USRDA. This issue is difficult to study in a rigorous, controlled way due to individual differences so we'll probably never get conclusive data one way or the other.

wyager 5y ago

> The film The Game Changers has plenty of examples of thriving humans on a vegan diet… You are just showing a bias. I am showing a bias and the silly vegan propaganda movie isn’t? OK. Btw, if you want some examples of veganism not working as advertised, look up the ongoing “vegans: the epitome of malnourishment” series on YouTube. It tracks various vegan influencers throughout the years.

happytoexplain 5y ago
I tend to avoid the word "propaganda" where I think the term "one-sided" would qualitatively suffice, but those YouTube videos are fairly close to the definition of propaganda. The series is essentially one of the common hate-driven cherry-picking machines the internet is constructed out of. This is coming from me, a non-vegan who thinks that adequate nutrition is much more difficult for vegans, and therefore by the very laws of statistics, if that assumption is true, then vegans are in fact on average less well-nourished compared to people with adequate access to food and no dietary restrictions.
ElijahLynn 5y ago
Have you watched it?
uxcolumbo 5y ago
Replace "vegan" with "stop cruelty". It's not a diet. It's a mindset not wanting to cause unnecessary suffering. Why would you want to continue funding a cruel and biosphere destroying industry (factory farming) if you don't need their products to survive. In our society eating animal flesh is mostly to experience culinary pleasures. If you look at it from a logical perspective, it doesn't make sense, all that waste and inefficiencies in that system - tech folks should appreciate that. Veganism doesn't mean you're automatically on a healthy diet. You can be vegan on Pringles and Coke. Game Changers just shows you can thrive at an athletic level on a plant based diet. We humans gave up other horrific practices from the past - so the future is vegan (reduced cruelty), but we don't have to wait - we can start now.
- wyager 5y ago
  > It's not a diet. It's a mindset not wanting to cause unnecessary suffering. This religious marketing isn’t helping your cause. > Why would you want to continue funding a cruel I am strictly opposed to animal cruelty. Killing animals at all is a net negative for me. However, it’s not my primary concern and I also don’t think the marginal improvement veganism provides animals is significant. > and biosphere destroying This is mostly bullshit. > (factory farming) I am opposed to the most abysmal methods of meat production. > if you don't need their products to survive. I need them to be healthy. Vegans can object all they want but the truth is right there for me to see. Whenever a scrawny balding vegan with sunken eyes tells me they’re perfectly healthy, I know they’re deluded and not giving me good advice. > Game Changers just shows you can thrive at an athletic level on a plant based diet. It’s a few cherry picked examples. In reality going vegan will tank your athletic performance and injury resistance. https://www.lonesomelands.com/new-blog/2019/9/16/t2amoscp1u1ynq1ms3sk9shr5ewlvj https://www.lonesomelands.com/new-blog/2019/9/16/t2amoscp1u1... > We humans gave up other horrific practices from the past - so the future is vegan (reduced cruelty) I actually agree with you on this. People in the future will view animal consumption like we view slavery. > but we don't have to wait - we can start now. Unfortunately this is not true, if we want to stay healthy. Give it 100 years and maybe the tech will be where it needs to be.
  - uxcolumbo 5y ago
    Thanks for commenting in a more civil manner and agreeing that where most of the meat comes from (factory farming) is abysmal. > This religious marketing isn’t helping your cause. Why is it religious marketing? What is religious about it? It's about ethics - not religion. Most humans not practicing slavery for example, is that also being religious? What's wrong with having moral principles? We say killing other humans is wrong. We say animal cruelty is wrong and yet a lot of humans practice or support it on a daily basis. Mostly because people don't know the reality of where their animal meat comes from and what the externalities are. This is down to some very good propaganda campaigns by the meat and dairy industry actually. Funny that there are things like Ag-Gag laws. What is this industry afraid of? That people would find out how horrific it is and god forbid making the right choice and not buy their products anymore? There is also the human cost. Could you work in a factory farm? Or just a slaughter house that kills any animals whether from factory farms or 'happy' farms? Could you kill animals day in day out, hearing their screams, smelling the blood and feces? Reports by folks who did that said they had to suppress their compassion and actually suffered from PTSD. A guest on Joe Rogan's show said he worked in that industry and couldn't last more than 2 weeks and he was an MMA guy, so could be considered tough. > This is mostly bullshit. Can you provide your sources? My comment was based on studies by the UN, Oxford University and other academic sources [0] [1]. Not just merely a blog post by some bloke with an opinion. > It’s a few cherry picked examples. And yet you're cherry picking yourself. Here are more athletes who chose to give up meat: https://www.greatveganathletes.com/all-athletes/ https://www.greatveganathletes.com/all-athletes/ - it's a long list. Have you actually watched the documentary? It's funny - the creator of the documentary, ex MMA fighter, actually said his performance went up. This is echoed by many other athletes. But they didn't say they are injury resistant. But most of us are not professional athletes, so it's a moot point. But if we chose to operate at a more athletic level, a plant based diet can still provide all we need. If you choose not to pay for cruelty - you still have to make an effort to eat healthily, which is easier to find out how nowadays. We are not carnivores. Yes we can eat meat, but it's not required for our survival if we have other food sources. > I need them to be healthy. You can be healthy on a plant-based diet. Check this resource by medical experts: https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/plant-based-diets/nutrition-faq https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/plant-based-diets/nutrit... If people absolutely can't give up animal meat, then at least hunt or raise and kill your own to ensure that suffering can be minimized to an absolute minimal level. But guess what, most of us couldn't do that and it's not scalable. ---- [0] https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/nature-decline-unprecedented-report/ https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/natur... [1] https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-environmental-cost-food https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-environme...

nradov 5y ago

That movie is biased propaganda advocating a particular diet, not a proper scientific study. You can certainly cherry pick a few elite athletes who perform well on vegan diets, but the vast majority of elite athletes are omnivores. Ever some of the movie subjects ate certain animal products such as eggs. If you search around a bit you'll also find numerous anecdotal reports from elite athletes who tried vegan diets and found that they seemed to have more difficulty recovering from injuries. There seem to be some subtle nutritional deficiencies which aren't fully captured in the USRDA. This issue is difficult to study in a rigorous, controlled way due to individual differences so we'll probably never get conclusive data one way or the other.