4 ms·

This is a retort I see online a lot, and it is not a good one. When people say how its dangerous to voice opinions nowadays, they aren't using medieval Europe

This is a retort I see online a lot, and it is not a good one. When people say how its dangerous to voice opinions nowadays, they aren't using medieval Europe as a reference point (where it was also very dangerous to voice unpopular opinions). The reference point people use is their own experiences online from ~10 years ago. People used to be able to say whatever they wanted online, and now doing so is dangerous. You may think that is a good thing, but it is still unequivocally true that voicing unpopular opinions online is more dangerous than it used to be. Making some snide remark about history is completely missing the point.

staticman2 5y ago
I feel quite confident there are unpopular opinions from 10 years ago that would land you in trouble. "People used to say whatever they wanted" is hyperbole.
- slumdev 5y ago
  None of these statements were even controversial twenty years ago: "Sex and gender are the same; they are immutable; and there are only two of them." "Every child has a right to a mother and a father." "An individual can't change his race." "China is the world's worst human rights transgressor and currency manipulator."
  - klyrs 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Womyn%27s_Music_Festival https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Womyn%27s_Music_Fes... The immutability of gender was controversial in 1991, but okay.
    - slumdev 5y ago
      In 1991, the immutability of gender might have raised the ire of 1 in 10,000 -- if even that many.
      - klyrs 5y ago
        That's a gross underestimate of the number of transgender people. And given that we haven't been recognized as legitimate until very recently, historical statistics are extremely shoddy. I personally knew two people who identified as transgender in the late 90s, in my high school class of ~450. They didn't transition until much later in life, so wouldn't be counted in stats.
  - staticman2 5y ago
    The person upthread claimed nothing was controversial/ unpopular 10 years ago, the internet was some sort of free speech utopia. I'm not sure how bringing up anti LGBT crowds typing things like "it's Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" 20 years ago shows there was no controversy on the internet 10 or 20 years ago. If you are correct that typing things like that was not controversial, it sounds like identifying as gay or LGBT was indeed controversial, putting false the claim that the internet was a free speech utopia where you could type anything and nobody would care.
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      I used the word "dangerous", not "controversial". In the past, you could have a controversial opinion online without risking your livelyhood and safety. No longer.
      - staticman2 5y ago
        The conservative cancellation of Dixie Chicks in 2003 would seem to suggest otherwise. From wikipedia "At a 2003 performance in London, Natalie Maines of the American country band the Dixie Chicks, now known as the Chicks, made a statement criticizing President George W. Bush and the imminent Allied invasion of Iraq. The criticism led to backlash from country listeners, who were mostly right-wing and supported the war. The Dixie Chicks were blacklisted by thousands of country radio stations, and the band members received death threats."
oblio 5y ago
https://www.statista.com/statistics/273018/number-of-internet-users-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/273018/number-of-interne... Normal people joined the internet and they want normal people things. The internet is almost like real life now. Communication has consequences in real life, as kindergartners find out.
kenjackson 5y ago
"it is still unequivocally true that voicing unpopular opinions online is more dangerous than it used to be." This is because the online audience is much larger than it used to be. I could say something on usenet in 1994 and the reach was pretty limited. To be clear, stating unpopular opinions has always been dangerous if the wrong people hear them. Now its just that they're much more likely to hear it online.
- rufus_foreman 5y ago
  In the communities I participated in in the 90's, although most of them were left-leaning politically, people with different opinions were welcomed. People wanted to hear counter arguments and they wanted to hear the other side of the story. As far as I can tell, that is all gone now. People with unpopular opinions just get banned immediately. Sometimes it is the same exact people in the exact same communities who 20 years ago would have wanted to hear that unpopular opinion. I don't know if the cause is that they have been trolled one too many times, they just got older and changed, something in the culture, who knows. The big sort keeps getting bigger though.

staticman2 5y ago

I feel quite confident there are unpopular opinions from 10 years ago that would land you in trouble. "People used to say whatever they wanted" is hyperbole.

slumdev 5y ago
None of these statements were even controversial twenty years ago: "Sex and gender are the same; they are immutable; and there are only two of them." "Every child has a right to a mother and a father." "An individual can't change his race." "China is the world's worst human rights transgressor and currency manipulator."
- klyrs 5y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Womyn%27s_Music_Festival https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Womyn%27s_Music_Fes... The immutability of gender was controversial in 1991, but okay.
  - slumdev 5y ago
    In 1991, the immutability of gender might have raised the ire of 1 in 10,000 -- if even that many.
    - klyrs 5y ago
      That's a gross underestimate of the number of transgender people. And given that we haven't been recognized as legitimate until very recently, historical statistics are extremely shoddy. I personally knew two people who identified as transgender in the late 90s, in my high school class of ~450. They didn't transition until much later in life, so wouldn't be counted in stats.
- staticman2 5y ago
  The person upthread claimed nothing was controversial/ unpopular 10 years ago, the internet was some sort of free speech utopia. I'm not sure how bringing up anti LGBT crowds typing things like "it's Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" 20 years ago shows there was no controversy on the internet 10 or 20 years ago. If you are correct that typing things like that was not controversial, it sounds like identifying as gay or LGBT was indeed controversial, putting false the claim that the internet was a free speech utopia where you could type anything and nobody would care.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    I used the word "dangerous", not "controversial". In the past, you could have a controversial opinion online without risking your livelyhood and safety. No longer.
    - staticman2 5y ago
      The conservative cancellation of Dixie Chicks in 2003 would seem to suggest otherwise. From wikipedia "At a 2003 performance in London, Natalie Maines of the American country band the Dixie Chicks, now known as the Chicks, made a statement criticizing President George W. Bush and the imminent Allied invasion of Iraq. The criticism led to backlash from country listeners, who were mostly right-wing and supported the war. The Dixie Chicks were blacklisted by thousands of country radio stations, and the band members received death threats."

oblio 5y ago

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273018/number-of-internet-users-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/273018/number-of-interne... Normal people joined the internet and they want normal people things. The internet is almost like real life now. Communication has consequences in real life, as kindergartners find out.

kenjackson 5y ago

"it is still unequivocally true that voicing unpopular opinions online is more dangerous than it used to be." This is because the online audience is much larger than it used to be. I could say something on usenet in 1994 and the reach was pretty limited. To be clear, stating unpopular opinions has always been dangerous if the wrong people hear them. Now its just that they're much more likely to hear it online.

rufus_foreman 5y ago
In the communities I participated in in the 90's, although most of them were left-leaning politically, people with different opinions were welcomed. People wanted to hear counter arguments and they wanted to hear the other side of the story. As far as I can tell, that is all gone now. People with unpopular opinions just get banned immediately. Sometimes it is the same exact people in the exact same communities who 20 years ago would have wanted to hear that unpopular opinion. I don't know if the cause is that they have been trolled one too many times, they just got older and changed, something in the culture, who knows. The big sort keeps getting bigger though.