7 ms·

“Falling 16% per decade since 1988” I wonder why! Maybe tied to the phase out of leaded gasoline around the same time??

etempleton 5y ago
I always wonder how many toxins are we currently unknowingly afflicting upon ourselves. Lead has been linked to a number of neurological and societal issues. The spike in anxiety and depression in the past decades makes me wonder if there is something going on there or if it is more of a reaction the social environment.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  Estrogenic Chemicals for one. https://www.amazon.com/Estrogeneration-Estrogenics-Making-Sick-Infertile/dp/1946546011 https://www.amazon.com/Estrogeneration-Estrogenics-Making-Si... Pretty much 90% of plastics.
  - throwaway384028 5y ago
    I agree - I think we'll realize in our lifetimes that plastics have a lot to do with rises in some of those mental issues alongside the decline in average testosterone levels in males.
    - zapdrive 5y ago
      Boo fucking hoo. Nobody gives a damn about males. This is the age of feminism. Isn't testosterone a leading cause for toxic masculinity anyways? I forgot the /s, but I'm going to get downvoted either way.
    - astrange 5y ago
      There isn't such a decline. https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1372192564053430279 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1372192564053430279
      - fighterpilot 5y ago
        The first factual claim on miscarriages is false. He says early pregnancy failures have increased ten percent. The graph he links shows no such increase according to line of best fit. It only shows it if he cherry picks the largest observation in the data. Even if I grant this false assumption, his inference that late miscarriages have declined doesn't even follow, the data he's presented is fully consistent with an increase in late miscarriage of a few percent. Regarding the testosterone question. The data in the tweet you mention actually does show such a decline - of almost 50 percent in young US males. His point is that the decline has stopped and levels have increased by an extremely small amount in the last 10 years, although that could easily be statistical noise since it is such a tiny increase. Overall, his data shows a large decrease over 50-100 years in the US.
      - throwaway384028 5y ago
        As much as I want to trust a guy on twitter who made some graphs on excel, according to the journal of endocrinology their is a decline: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434 https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434 Plastics might not be the only factor, I believe a lot of it has to do with lifestyle of average americans as well (obesity, sedentary, high sugar and fat diets) though I do think that plastics play a part as well.
    - bongoman37 5y ago
      I wonder if that's behind the huge rise in MtF transsexuals in recent times. A friend of mine is a teacher in a high school and 4 of 15 kids in her class are trans.
      - bongoman37 5y ago
        Why is it okay to speculate about mental issues from rise in sex hormone mimicking chemicals in the environment but not about actual sexual issues?
- SilverRed 5y ago
  Non stick pans, water resistant shoe spray, plastic, mercury in seafood due to coal mining, various fumes from cars and gas stoves. We know all about it. It's just no one cares.
  - fumar 5y ago
    Does all water resistant proofing that causes issues?
    - extrapickles 5y ago
      You can use the classic techniques such as using waxes and/or oils to add water resistance. There are downsides though in that they add more weight and require special care (eg: oiled items cannot be washed with soap without having to reapply).
  - melling 5y ago
    40% of the world’s electricity is from coal, which is also a very large source of CO2 emissions
  - qq4 5y ago
    I have never seen any conclusive evidence for nonstick cookware being dangerous with normal usage. I know that PTFE shouldn't get too hot, and temperatures above 500F are rare for range cooking.
    - hnick 5y ago
      Even if you burn the heck out of it, it has little direct risk if you're not a bird. I think the worst recorded case had someone fall asleep, burn the pan down to the base metal, and fill his apartment with smoke. All he got were some flu-like breathing symptoms (polymer fume fever) and a few days in hospital to monitor. So the chances of problems from incidentally getting the pan too hot via normal cooking seem low. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4544973/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4544973/ That said, cancer is apparently everywhere these days so that's a possibility, but no links are yet known. Though I do steer towards steel and iron anyway since I like to get a good sear which is easier with iron, and using metal tools is just more fun.
- miguelrochefort 5y ago
  Vegetable oil
- ecmascript 5y ago
  Microplastics is probably a big one. We're just making more of it every year and they will never disappear. It's incredibly stupid and everyone just keeps using it, even in stuff like body wash, sunscreen and toothpaste. People like us should get together and fill the world with at least sensors so that it becomes more visible.
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    does it not eventually get consumed by bacteria? they keep talking about finding bacteria/fungii that can digest it?
- bionhoward 5y ago
  FYI, for true pedantic accuracy, the term toxicant is preferred by toxicologists. Toxins are offensive poisons produced by organisms. Thus Lead is not a toxin unless concentrated to harmful doses by some organism. Highly recommend anyone interested in medicine to study toxicology, because there are so many misconceptions and FUD in this space. It's a great bullshit detector for all the hippies crowing about "removing toxins from the body"
alfon 5y ago
Indeed, every measure that helps decreasing the overall heavy metal burden is welcomed. One of such is the Minamata convention on Mercury [1]. "Studies also confirmed that neurotoxic metals, including lead, mercury, aluminum, and manganese, are measurably more harmful in combination than separately" [2] One researcher that has been advocating for the link between mercury toxicity and Alzheimer's is Dr. Boyd Haley [3]. Lastly, here is a cool video showing how Mercury causes neuron degeneration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpC17nfZVvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpC17nfZVvU [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_Convention_on_Mercury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_Convention_on_Mercury [2] DOI:10.1588/medver.2005.02.00070 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AQxkIcXrt0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AQxkIcXrt0 [4]
adrianN 5y ago
Particulate pollution has also improved since then. Makes you wonder what other ailments will mysteriously become much less prevalent when we finally get rid of ICE cars, and perhaps reduce car traffic in general.
- amarant 5y ago
  Yeah a lot of particles come from the road/tyres, so if we want to be rid of all of them I guess switching to EVs isn't really enough (but it's a damn good start). Long term(as in multiple decades) we might want to switch maglev railways, as there is no friction to stir particles in the air from that. That would also remove the need for batteries whose production is probably harmful to some degree. Infrastructure costs are gonna be fun though...
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    > I guess switching to EVs isn't really enough For completeness EV apply regenerative braking for a large proportion of use, which is for all practical purposes particle free. Obviously tire wear still applies but brake pad wear is largely reduced So with EV you are getting rid of ICE particulates, CO2, CO, and NO2 (particularly on Diesel engines) and also drastically reducing brake particulate from brake pad wear. And to be fair my intuition is that the health impacts of CO and NO2 is likely far more harmful then tire and brake pad particulates. Having said all of that we would still be better off just having everyone using electric buses or trains within Metro areas at least.
    - dcolkitt 5y ago
      My understanding is that most particulate emission isn’t from brake pads, but from asphalt on the road. Regen braking should only have a de minims impact.
  - RobertoG 5y ago
    >>"Yeah a lot of particles come from the road/tyres," It seems some people is working on that too: "The Tyre Collective designed a simple device that collects microplastics as they fly off a car tire. As the group of designers explains it, their device helps on the path toward zero emissions by using electrostatic and airflow around the tire to capture the microplastics and other small particles that are shed over the lifetime of a tire." https://www.ecowatch.com/microplastics-car-tires-james-dyson-award--2647697441.html https://www.ecowatch.com/microplastics-car-tires-james-dyson...
unishark 5y ago
Could be a combination of things, some worse but others better: > A commission organized by medical journal The Lancet last year calculated that modifying a dozen risk factors could prevent or delay dementia in 40% of cases. These 12 variables are lack of education, hypertension, auditive disability, smoking, obesity, depression, lack of physical activity, diabetes, social isolation, excess consumption of alcohol, blows to the head and atmospheric contamination.
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  I remember one of my generation's hobbies especially on the country side was drinking copious amount of booze at every opportunity. You could buy beer in most work canteens. People still drink but it is nowhere close to the frequency that people drank in the 90ies and before: https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/alcohol-use/data-and-statistics/alcohol-country-fact-sheets-2019 https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention...
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    Is there any evidence connecting that to Alzheimers? Regardless, based on your description, the current elderly are the people who grew up drinking heavily.
- thrower123 5y ago
  Mostly this boils down to stupid people who would in previous times have died before dementia was an issue.
inter_netuser 5y ago
Sleep apnea is being fixed from roughly that year. CPAP invented in 80s, commercialized in 1989. "ResMed was established in 1989 by Peter Farrell in Australia." Apnea treatments have improved big time since then, and will keep improving, as most are misdiagnosed.
refurb 5y ago
HN loves it leaded gasoline theories. Could also be the shift towards digital encoding of cell phone calls versus the old analogue?
- NavinF 5y ago
  Honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or just going for a hot take
f6v 5y ago
That’s also the year when table tennis became an Olympic sport.
- dempseye 5y ago
  I know you're making a joke about spurious correlations, but proposing that a link may exist between the reduction in incidence of a neurodegenerative illness and the removal of a substance with proven neurodegenerative effects from the environment is quite reasonable. At the very least, it passes the sniff test for plausibility and it is worth looking into.
amelius 5y ago
Curious, how do you find these kinds of correlations?
bsder 5y ago
More likely smoking bans. Richer countries have been trying very hard to reduce smoking since about 1990.

I always wonder how many toxins are we currently unknowingly afflicting upon ourselves. Lead has been linked to a number of neurological and societal issues. The spike in anxiety and depression in the past decades makes me wonder if there is something going on there or if it is more of a reaction the social environment.

reedjosh 5y ago
Estrogenic Chemicals for one. https://www.amazon.com/Estrogeneration-Estrogenics-Making-Sick-Infertile/dp/1946546011 https://www.amazon.com/Estrogeneration-Estrogenics-Making-Si... Pretty much 90% of plastics.
- throwaway384028 5y ago
  I agree - I think we'll realize in our lifetimes that plastics have a lot to do with rises in some of those mental issues alongside the decline in average testosterone levels in males.
  - zapdrive 5y ago
    Boo fucking hoo. Nobody gives a damn about males. This is the age of feminism. Isn't testosterone a leading cause for toxic masculinity anyways? I forgot the /s, but I'm going to get downvoted either way.
  - astrange 5y ago
    There isn't such a decline. https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1372192564053430279 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1372192564053430279
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      The first factual claim on miscarriages is false. He says early pregnancy failures have increased ten percent. The graph he links shows no such increase according to line of best fit. It only shows it if he cherry picks the largest observation in the data. Even if I grant this false assumption, his inference that late miscarriages have declined doesn't even follow, the data he's presented is fully consistent with an increase in late miscarriage of a few percent. Regarding the testosterone question. The data in the tweet you mention actually does show such a decline - of almost 50 percent in young US males. His point is that the decline has stopped and levels have increased by an extremely small amount in the last 10 years, although that could easily be statistical noise since it is such a tiny increase. Overall, his data shows a large decrease over 50-100 years in the US.
    - throwaway384028 5y ago
      As much as I want to trust a guy on twitter who made some graphs on excel, according to the journal of endocrinology their is a decline: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434 https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/1/196/2598434 Plastics might not be the only factor, I believe a lot of it has to do with lifestyle of average americans as well (obesity, sedentary, high sugar and fat diets) though I do think that plastics play a part as well.
  - bongoman37 5y ago
    I wonder if that's behind the huge rise in MtF transsexuals in recent times. A friend of mine is a teacher in a high school and 4 of 15 kids in her class are trans.
    - bongoman37 5y ago
      Why is it okay to speculate about mental issues from rise in sex hormone mimicking chemicals in the environment but not about actual sexual issues?
SilverRed 5y ago
Non stick pans, water resistant shoe spray, plastic, mercury in seafood due to coal mining, various fumes from cars and gas stoves. We know all about it. It's just no one cares.
- fumar 5y ago
  Does all water resistant proofing that causes issues?
  - extrapickles 5y ago
    You can use the classic techniques such as using waxes and/or oils to add water resistance. There are downsides though in that they add more weight and require special care (eg: oiled items cannot be washed with soap without having to reapply).
- melling 5y ago
  40% of the world’s electricity is from coal, which is also a very large source of CO2 emissions
- qq4 5y ago
  I have never seen any conclusive evidence for nonstick cookware being dangerous with normal usage. I know that PTFE shouldn't get too hot, and temperatures above 500F are rare for range cooking.
  - hnick 5y ago
    Even if you burn the heck out of it, it has little direct risk if you're not a bird. I think the worst recorded case had someone fall asleep, burn the pan down to the base metal, and fill his apartment with smoke. All he got were some flu-like breathing symptoms (polymer fume fever) and a few days in hospital to monitor. So the chances of problems from incidentally getting the pan too hot via normal cooking seem low. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4544973/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4544973/ That said, cancer is apparently everywhere these days so that's a possibility, but no links are yet known. Though I do steer towards steel and iron anyway since I like to get a good sear which is easier with iron, and using metal tools is just more fun.
miguelrochefort 5y ago
Vegetable oil
ecmascript 5y ago
Microplastics is probably a big one. We're just making more of it every year and they will never disappear. It's incredibly stupid and everyone just keeps using it, even in stuff like body wash, sunscreen and toothpaste. People like us should get together and fill the world with at least sensors so that it becomes more visible.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  does it not eventually get consumed by bacteria? they keep talking about finding bacteria/fungii that can digest it?
bionhoward 5y ago
FYI, for true pedantic accuracy, the term toxicant is preferred by toxicologists. Toxins are offensive poisons produced by organisms. Thus Lead is not a toxin unless concentrated to harmful doses by some organism. Highly recommend anyone interested in medicine to study toxicology, because there are so many misconceptions and FUD in this space. It's a great bullshit detector for all the hippies crowing about "removing toxins from the body"

alfon 5y ago

Indeed, every measure that helps decreasing the overall heavy metal burden is welcomed. One of such is the Minamata convention on Mercury [1]. "Studies also confirmed that neurotoxic metals, including lead, mercury, aluminum, and manganese, are measurably more harmful in combination than separately" [2] One researcher that has been advocating for the link between mercury toxicity and Alzheimer's is Dr. Boyd Haley [3]. Lastly, here is a cool video showing how Mercury causes neuron degeneration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpC17nfZVvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpC17nfZVvU [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_Convention_on_Mercury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_Convention_on_Mercury [2] DOI:10.1588/medver.2005.02.00070 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AQxkIcXrt0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AQxkIcXrt0 [4]

adrianN 5y ago

Particulate pollution has also improved since then. Makes you wonder what other ailments will mysteriously become much less prevalent when we finally get rid of ICE cars, and perhaps reduce car traffic in general.

amarant 5y ago
Yeah a lot of particles come from the road/tyres, so if we want to be rid of all of them I guess switching to EVs isn't really enough (but it's a damn good start). Long term(as in multiple decades) we might want to switch maglev railways, as there is no friction to stir particles in the air from that. That would also remove the need for batteries whose production is probably harmful to some degree. Infrastructure costs are gonna be fun though...
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  > I guess switching to EVs isn't really enough For completeness EV apply regenerative braking for a large proportion of use, which is for all practical purposes particle free. Obviously tire wear still applies but brake pad wear is largely reduced So with EV you are getting rid of ICE particulates, CO2, CO, and NO2 (particularly on Diesel engines) and also drastically reducing brake particulate from brake pad wear. And to be fair my intuition is that the health impacts of CO and NO2 is likely far more harmful then tire and brake pad particulates. Having said all of that we would still be better off just having everyone using electric buses or trains within Metro areas at least.
  - dcolkitt 5y ago
    My understanding is that most particulate emission isn’t from brake pads, but from asphalt on the road. Regen braking should only have a de minims impact.
- RobertoG 5y ago
  >>"Yeah a lot of particles come from the road/tyres," It seems some people is working on that too: "The Tyre Collective designed a simple device that collects microplastics as they fly off a car tire. As the group of designers explains it, their device helps on the path toward zero emissions by using electrostatic and airflow around the tire to capture the microplastics and other small particles that are shed over the lifetime of a tire." https://www.ecowatch.com/microplastics-car-tires-james-dyson-award--2647697441.html https://www.ecowatch.com/microplastics-car-tires-james-dyson...

unishark 5y ago

Could be a combination of things, some worse but others better: > A commission organized by medical journal The Lancet last year calculated that modifying a dozen risk factors could prevent or delay dementia in 40% of cases. These 12 variables are lack of education, hypertension, auditive disability, smoking, obesity, depression, lack of physical activity, diabetes, social isolation, excess consumption of alcohol, blows to the head and atmospheric contamination.

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
I remember one of my generation's hobbies especially on the country side was drinking copious amount of booze at every opportunity. You could buy beer in most work canteens. People still drink but it is nowhere close to the frequency that people drank in the 90ies and before: https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/alcohol-use/data-and-statistics/alcohol-country-fact-sheets-2019 https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention...
- wolverine876 5y ago
  Is there any evidence connecting that to Alzheimers? Regardless, based on your description, the current elderly are the people who grew up drinking heavily.
thrower123 5y ago
Mostly this boils down to stupid people who would in previous times have died before dementia was an issue.

inter_netuser 5y ago

Sleep apnea is being fixed from roughly that year. CPAP invented in 80s, commercialized in 1989. "ResMed was established in 1989 by Peter Farrell in Australia." Apnea treatments have improved big time since then, and will keep improving, as most are misdiagnosed.

refurb 5y ago

HN loves it leaded gasoline theories. Could also be the shift towards digital encoding of cell phone calls versus the old analogue?

NavinF 5y ago
Honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or just going for a hot take

f6v 5y ago

That’s also the year when table tennis became an Olympic sport.

dempseye 5y ago
I know you're making a joke about spurious correlations, but proposing that a link may exist between the reduction in incidence of a neurodegenerative illness and the removal of a substance with proven neurodegenerative effects from the environment is quite reasonable. At the very least, it passes the sniff test for plausibility and it is worth looking into.

amelius 5y ago

Curious, how do you find these kinds of correlations?

bsder 5y ago

More likely smoking bans. Richer countries have been trying very hard to reduce smoking since about 1990.