14 ms·

Not even mentioning the hardware bits, I have been collaborating with postmarketOS for a while now, and believe that the main thing we need to make those device

Not even mentioning the hardware bits, I have been collaborating with postmarketOS for a while now, and believe that the main thing we need to make those devices longer-lasting would be an unlockable bootloader by law. This sounds so logical (why cannot I run, by voiding the warranty, any code I want on my machine, whatever it is?), yet apparently so hard to make openly illegal, since the problem is barely acknowledged in general.

bluGill 5y ago
You can't do that because someone (probably not you) will then unlock the phone and [insert something evil here - perhaps involving the radio]
- jolmg 5y ago
  Are you missing an /s or are you saying that it shouldn't be done because it would enable e.g. use of radio hardware that goes against radio regulation? If you're really expressing concern, what do you think of e.g. modem modules for regular computers or SDR hardware?
  - bluGill 5y ago
    > Are you missing an /s or are you saying that it shouldn't be done because it would enable e.g. use of radio hardware that goes against radio regulation Great question. I'm intentionally not answering it because I am not sure what I think. There are valid points on both sides. In part what I think depends on how evil evil people get.
    - jolmg 5y ago
      AFAIK, anything phones can do on a hardware level can be done on more open platforms. What could unlocking phones enable evil people to do? What's one of these valid points of the other side?
      - TylerE 5y ago
        Phones are ubiquitous. A phone sitting on a desk is invisible, in a way a random enclosure with a fire wires sticking out of it isn’t.
        yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
        On the other hand, a Pi/ESP32/whatever shoved into a plastic case instantly becomes almost as inconspicuous once again.
        tehbeard 5y ago
        A WiFi pineapple in a backpack is pretty innocuous
        beerandt 5y ago
        Or run it on an actual wifi router or usb stick in plain sight.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - sunshineforever 5y ago
        Im imagining kids watching "turn youe phone into a jammer prank your friends" videos... I still support full freedom though. The problem can be handled via prosecution of offenders.
    - jfk13 5y ago
      However evil you expect people to be, someone will exceed it. That's why we can't have nice things.
  - LeifCarrotson 5y ago
    No, even if this is not the optimal response to the issue it's at least a popular concern to cite. Our ubiquitous radio devices only work because the invisible commons that is the radio spectrum noise floor is aggressively and totally managed. Intentional emitters can only be sold after testing to ensure that their output is within regulated power levels and frequencies. It is trivial for an end user with a high-power transmit-capable SDR or amateur radio to unintentionally, unknowingly, and invisibly pollute this resource, denying nearby devices (scaled to your transmit power and depending on the frequency/bandwidth) the ability to communicate. This could be some noise on your neighbor's FM car radio, or it could be the communicators used by emergency services. Honestly, I think radio spectrum management is one of the greatest success stories of the 20th century - if air or water pollution were as effectively regulated the world would be a very different place! To be clear, I don't think that smartphones with unlockable bootloaders, likely reusing the stock radio binary blob, are actually going to bring about the apocalypse and set us back to the telegraph era. There was a process where Apple or Samsung or whoever brought that device with their bootloader to an expensive laboratory to get their CE mark, and that process proved that combination of hardware and software to be compliant with regulations. That process may have involved modifying some hardware filters and EMI shields, and almost certainly involved adjusting parameters in radio firmware/software, which are subsequently fixed for the lifetime of the product. If you give end users the ability to modify these parameters, you're inviting them to break the law. While enforcement is currently highly effective by requiring this certification process for OEMs, it wouldn't scale if you give everyone the ability to modify their certified emitters. You at least have to consider the possibility that someone could create a "High Power Radio" app or OS that would make smartphones running it have higher-power, faster access to cell towers and cause nearby devices to lose connection; no one wants that outcome. Personally, I think the harm caused by preventing this through locked bootloaders and disposable smartphones is a tragedy. However, I don't know what a comparably effective alternative would look like, and the current state of affairs has both inertia and the backing of major institutions with strong conflicts of interest, and will continue to be very hard to advocate against.
    - jolmg 5y ago
      > However, I don't know what a comparably effective alternative would look like I don't know what the current state of affairs is with regards to radio modem firmware, but I would think that if radio-controlling software should be certified (as following regulation), that should be limited to the firmware, and the modem should only accept firmware updates cryptographically signed by the manufacturer (and possibly the regulator). The firmware should provide an interface that only permits legal use through technical means. IOW, regulation should be limited to the hardware module and the software running inside it. It shouldn't be possible for software residing on any other part of the device to run afoul. If that's impossible for some reason (which I don't think it should be), then I would argue that other alternatives like focusing on prosecuting violations (like the app and OS you mentioned) or modifying the regulations so they can be contained within the firmware while still meeting goals should come before any idea of locking down whole devices for the regulation of a specific module. Also, > You at least have to consider the possibility that someone could create a "High Power Radio" app or OS that would ... If that's possible then, it's possible now. I mean, you don't even have to consider phones. Bootloaders and OSes in regular computers are open source and unlocked. If that's a problem that can arise from unlocked devices, then it already would have been a problem since long ago. Additionally, the discussion was not whether there should be unlocked devices, which there already are. The discussion was whether locking should be illegal.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  The radio is a completely separate sub system that is not affected by unlocking the boot loader of the main computer.
  - bitwize 5y ago
    That's not always true. If it's possible to shave pennies off the BOM by having the radio driven by, or sharing memory with, the main CPU -- and it is possible -- there will be phones in the wild with that configuration.
    - waych 5y ago
      While it is certainly possible, it isn't true for any modern phone with an app store.
    - alerighi 5y ago
      Yes the radio can be on the same physical chip, but still they are two different systems. Unlocking the bootloader you get the ability to run an unsigned kernel on the main CPU, but still it doesn't give you access to the radio part, that has a completely different firmware (stored on a partition of the same flash memory, yes, but you see it as a black box) that is signed and checked and you cannot modify it. See it as the microcode of the CPU, something that is loaded at boot time but you cannot alter, patch, or even see what it does. The kernel can only talk to the modem trough AT commands, the same commands that you would use with a 4G USB modem that you plug into any computer. The fact that are physically on the same SOC doesn't implicate nothing in terms of security. In fact there are no security implication on unlocking a bootloader, if there were, well we would be in trouble since it's a relatively easy operation, that in most cases it's a matter of running a command from a CLI tool, and the only drawback is voiding the warranty.
      - R0b0t1 5y ago
        There are very low cost devices such as those Allwinner or Mediatek produce that are more popular in non-US, non-EU markets that do not have the barriers you are describing.
- jaywalk 5y ago
  Make it require a connection to a computer and disallow the stock OS from running at all when the bootloader is unlocked. I think those two hurdles should be more than enough to satisfy security concerns.
- mmis1000 5y ago
  Android phones triggers wipe on unlock. So use unlock bootloader to stole data simply don't work. Besides that, some phone will add a unremovble giant red exclamation mark on boot screen to notate the phone being unlocked to warn you `the phone is already unlocked, don't trust it unless it is done by you.`
  - thebean11 5y ago
    Don't all modern phones encrypt user data on disk anyway?
    - bosswipe 5y ago
      The wipe on unlock thing is not about preventing others from getting your data, it's about preventing you from getting app data.
      - mmis1000 5y ago
        I though either way it true? There are some apps designed not to being backup without a trace. For example: some 2FA apps are designed to stay exactly on one machine for security reasons (They are meant to replace traditional 2fa device). Being backup easily compromises the requirements.
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    People start their phones rarely.
  - thescriptkiddie 5y ago
    Would be nice if they provided a way to backup your phone before unlocking the bootloader, or at least put a warning that your phone is about to be wiped. I have personally lost data because of this, and there really is no way to backup an android device without having unlocked the bootloader first.
    - marcan_42 5y ago
- foolmeonce 5y ago
  Most phones secured bootloaders are hacked in less than 6 months if there is sufficient interest in the model. So if treatment of this as a huge security threat that makes other rights moot is valid then most of us should be able to return our improperly secured phones before their warranty is up.
  - my123 5y ago
    Not the case, it takes significantly longer... if it happens at all. Much longer. It took until 2019 for checkra1n to become a thing to unlock Apple A7 to A11 devices. Apple A11 is a 2017 SoC. A12, A13, A14 remain uncracked today. In Android lands, bootloaders starting from quite some years ago are quite solid too, with no bypasses except when the device maker provides you the possibility to unlock it.
    - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
      None of which is relevant to the premise that someone is going to do [insert something evil here - perhaps involving the radio]. Because if any device is cracked after any period of time then someone wanting to do [insert something evil] will just buy that device in order to do it.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  [abuse children and drugs, or be racist.]
  - bluGill 5y ago
    That are the current choices. That could change in the future, it has changed in the past. At one time not of the right Christian sect was in the list, today nobody cares - just one example that I won't get into trouble for mentioning.
- swiley 5y ago
  Many SoCs let you burn a hash for the second stage bootloader. If your threat model includes this then build a copy of uboot that will only load kernels signed with your keys and burn the hash into the fuses of your device.
- alerighi 5y ago
  The radio firmware is something that is at another level. Even if you end up unlocking the bootloader, that doesn't give you access to the radio firmware, that is proprietary and needs to be signed, and cannot be modified. It's basically seen by the OS as a modem to which they talk trough AT commands (yes, they are still in use), the same thing that you would obtain by plugging in an USB modem to a normal PC. For Wi-Fi you can tweak the driver, if you want. But you can do the same with a network card that you buy for a couple of dollars so what's the point? Transmitting on the 2.4Ghz is something everyone can do if he wants. It's nonsense what you said. There nothing evil you can do by unlocking a phone. In Android an unlock triggers a factory reset, that will prevent accessing people personal data (and it's not really necessary if you have disk encryption, that every modern phone has as a default), so the concern of accessing people data doesn't exist. The concern about: but then a criminal can steal your phone and use it. Yes, there is. We can require to unlock the phone requesting a code from a website of the manufacturer so they can prove that you bought the phone, as some manufacturers do. But in reality, does it make sense? You can nowaday get a phone that is more powerful than the PC that I used 5 years ago for 200$, I mean 8 core CPU, 8Gb of RAM, 256Gb internal flash, in the following years the price will probably go even lower. Should I care? They only thing that I care is that whoever stoles the phone cannot access my personal data, and this is achieved by the disk encryption, everything else to me is useless, I would just buy another phone, but in reality is more probable that I will loose or break my phone that someone steals it.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    This is not always true. There are chips where the radio DSP cores have their program loaded into main memory and it's unsigned. You talk to them with mutexes and shared memory pages. There is also no legal basis for requiring radio controllers to have signature enforced firmware loading. He's being sarcastic. It's think of the children but with electronics and PII.
    - alerighi 5y ago
      I don't think that is the case of any smartphone SOC. Even for questions about power management you tend to implement radio function with a dedicated hardware, so that for example the CPU can go to sleep and be waked up when a phone call arrives (for examaple). It would be too expensive to have the main CPU implement the 4G radio in software, they don't do so, it would also require precise timing that a non real time OS cannot provide. Typically you have the modem that has its own microcontroller inside that runs its own firmware, that is encrypted. On Android phones you have a partition for the radio firmware, that you should really never touch (since doing so you can brick your device). Of course there will be a shared memory area between the radio and the main CPU to talk, but that is only for communication, then the radio microcontroller has its own RAM to implements its functions.
celestialcheese 5y ago
In the US, at least, unlocking devices is legal as of 2015(?) through DMCA exemptions, which has been huge for recyclers and refurbishers. Still couldn't get game console unlocking through, but at least phones / tablets / other devices that are locked can be unlocked and resold. https://resource-recycling.com/e-scrap/2018/11/01/digital-device-unlocking-allowances-renewed/ https://resource-recycling.com/e-scrap/2018/11/01/digital-de...
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  These exemptions have to be renewed every 3 years. The 2018 exemptions for "jailbreaking" phones and tablets are still in force, but they will expire if not renewed.
  - celestialcheese 5y ago
    There's work happening to make these permanent. [1] Until that happens, there are tireless volunteers and organizations lobbying for these exemptions every 3 years. [1] - https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2020/06/29/copyright-office-begins-period-petitioning-exemptions-section-1201-dmca/id=122887/ https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2020/06/29/copyright-office-begin...
  - saurik 5y ago
    This was changed in the last cycle or so so if there aren't people challenging petitions they get semi-automatic renewals. Honestly, for unlocking bootloaders (note I initially wrote this comment in the mental context of carrier unlocks and then immediately went and edited it as I realized) we probably never needed the exemptions anyway, as there is a standing exempting for interop (which still does most of the work: the argument for the extra exemption is to provide one last step for the end-user as in 2009 it wasn't clear they could run the result, but currently everyone things they should be).
- bosswipe 5y ago
  It's meaningless if hackers can't bypass the security, which is true more and more as the companies get better with their security. What we need is bootloader unlocking provided by the manufacturers.
bluescrn 5y ago
User-replaceable batteries by law might be a better first step. Heck, maybe even some standard sizes for mobile device batteries (and while we're at it, also EV batteries... some sort of standard 'battery module' used by most/all vehicles would hugely help reuse/repair/recycling/upgrades).
- onethought 5y ago
  … that’s unique r&d for some companies. Why does it need to be standardised? Apple batteries are typically much smaller than what is in androids, because their chips are less power hungry… same goes for Tesla, their cars are more efficient… so standard battery packs would harm their overall product Don’t buy a device with a non replaceable battery if you don’t want one… why do you need the government for that?
- samatman 5y ago
  User-replaceable has nothing whatsoever to do with right to repair. Zero, zip, nada. A right to repair law might mandate that any device with a battery also have the battery sold, by the manufacturer, for a reasonable period of time. That gives you a practical right to repair the device by replacing the battery, and it's well-defined. "User replaceable" is not well defined. Does it mean you need to be able to do this with no tools at all? If not, what tools make it not 'user replaceable'? That no glue is used? Solder? My watch is literally a cell phone, and I don't welcome law which might make it bulkier or more awkward, to mollify people who want a plastic hinge to pop out their smartphone battery and swap in a new one in the field. The battery in my smartphone (and watch!) can be replaced by the manufacturer. Right-to-repair is about making sure that the owner of a device can do things themselves or from a third party, without licensing from the manufacturer: so selling consumable parts to all comers, providing some manuals maybe. It is not about whether you have the manual dexterity or special tooling to perform the replacement! If you want to optimize around that part being very easy, buy a product where it is, like the Dragonbox Pyra.
  - bluescrn 5y ago
    But there's not much point having the right to repair if products are designed to be non-repairable and spare parts are unavailable. A battery is a consumable and should be user-replaceable. It might be a bit fiddly, with tiny screws and fragile connectors, but shouldn't require heat guns and chemicals to remove adhesives... (And if we're about to replace billions of vehicles with EVs, perhaps consuming the entire planet's supply of lithium, we should be thinking very carefully about how those batteries will be constructed, replaced, reused, recycled - and ensuring that we don't let capitalism create EVs that after a few years are almost as disposable as few-year-old iPhones...)
canadianfella 5y ago
>why cannot I run Can’t
sunshineforever 5y ago
This policy of smartphones has felt like a knife in my back for years. I hope someday for the widespread return of real computers. Goodbye to consumer media/tracking nodes branded as computers.
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
Thank you for your work. I absolutely agree with you on bootloader. I wanted to try PostmarketOS and found several Moto G4 play (well supported by pmOS) in the used market but alas Motorola has arbitrarily removed unlock codes for older devices from their website! Since Motorola was giving unlock codes by revoking warranty officially, there were no attempts to unlock it elsewhere and so all older Motorola phones which haven't been unlocked earlier are useless for any aftermarket use. As for this law, Considering repairability is the easiest and most accessible way to address e-waste and that phones, computers are a major contributor, There doesn't seem to be a rational explanation behind their exclusion other than briefcases exchanged courtesy of Trillion dollar fruit company.

bluGill 5y ago

You can't do that because someone (probably not you) will then unlock the phone and [insert something evil here - perhaps involving the radio]

jolmg 5y ago
Are you missing an /s or are you saying that it shouldn't be done because it would enable e.g. use of radio hardware that goes against radio regulation? If you're really expressing concern, what do you think of e.g. modem modules for regular computers or SDR hardware?
- bluGill 5y ago
  > Are you missing an /s or are you saying that it shouldn't be done because it would enable e.g. use of radio hardware that goes against radio regulation Great question. I'm intentionally not answering it because I am not sure what I think. There are valid points on both sides. In part what I think depends on how evil evil people get.
  - jolmg 5y ago
    AFAIK, anything phones can do on a hardware level can be done on more open platforms. What could unlocking phones enable evil people to do? What's one of these valid points of the other side?
    - TylerE 5y ago
      Phones are ubiquitous. A phone sitting on a desk is invisible, in a way a random enclosure with a fire wires sticking out of it isn’t.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
        On the other hand, a Pi/ESP32/whatever shoved into a plastic case instantly becomes almost as inconspicuous once again.
        tehbeard 5y ago
        A WiFi pineapple in a backpack is pretty innocuous
        beerandt 5y ago
        Or run it on an actual wifi router or usb stick in plain sight.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - sunshineforever 5y ago
      Im imagining kids watching "turn youe phone into a jammer prank your friends" videos... I still support full freedom though. The problem can be handled via prosecution of offenders.
  - jfk13 5y ago
    However evil you expect people to be, someone will exceed it. That's why we can't have nice things.
- LeifCarrotson 5y ago
  No, even if this is not the optimal response to the issue it's at least a popular concern to cite. Our ubiquitous radio devices only work because the invisible commons that is the radio spectrum noise floor is aggressively and totally managed. Intentional emitters can only be sold after testing to ensure that their output is within regulated power levels and frequencies. It is trivial for an end user with a high-power transmit-capable SDR or amateur radio to unintentionally, unknowingly, and invisibly pollute this resource, denying nearby devices (scaled to your transmit power and depending on the frequency/bandwidth) the ability to communicate. This could be some noise on your neighbor's FM car radio, or it could be the communicators used by emergency services. Honestly, I think radio spectrum management is one of the greatest success stories of the 20th century - if air or water pollution were as effectively regulated the world would be a very different place! To be clear, I don't think that smartphones with unlockable bootloaders, likely reusing the stock radio binary blob, are actually going to bring about the apocalypse and set us back to the telegraph era. There was a process where Apple or Samsung or whoever brought that device with their bootloader to an expensive laboratory to get their CE mark, and that process proved that combination of hardware and software to be compliant with regulations. That process may have involved modifying some hardware filters and EMI shields, and almost certainly involved adjusting parameters in radio firmware/software, which are subsequently fixed for the lifetime of the product. If you give end users the ability to modify these parameters, you're inviting them to break the law. While enforcement is currently highly effective by requiring this certification process for OEMs, it wouldn't scale if you give everyone the ability to modify their certified emitters. You at least have to consider the possibility that someone could create a "High Power Radio" app or OS that would make smartphones running it have higher-power, faster access to cell towers and cause nearby devices to lose connection; no one wants that outcome. Personally, I think the harm caused by preventing this through locked bootloaders and disposable smartphones is a tragedy. However, I don't know what a comparably effective alternative would look like, and the current state of affairs has both inertia and the backing of major institutions with strong conflicts of interest, and will continue to be very hard to advocate against.
  - jolmg 5y ago
    > However, I don't know what a comparably effective alternative would look like I don't know what the current state of affairs is with regards to radio modem firmware, but I would think that if radio-controlling software should be certified (as following regulation), that should be limited to the firmware, and the modem should only accept firmware updates cryptographically signed by the manufacturer (and possibly the regulator). The firmware should provide an interface that only permits legal use through technical means. IOW, regulation should be limited to the hardware module and the software running inside it. It shouldn't be possible for software residing on any other part of the device to run afoul. If that's impossible for some reason (which I don't think it should be), then I would argue that other alternatives like focusing on prosecuting violations (like the app and OS you mentioned) or modifying the regulations so they can be contained within the firmware while still meeting goals should come before any idea of locking down whole devices for the regulation of a specific module. Also, > You at least have to consider the possibility that someone could create a "High Power Radio" app or OS that would ... If that's possible then, it's possible now. I mean, you don't even have to consider phones. Bootloaders and OSes in regular computers are open source and unlocked. If that's a problem that can arise from unlocked devices, then it already would have been a problem since long ago. Additionally, the discussion was not whether there should be unlocked devices, which there already are. The discussion was whether locking should be illegal.
kwhitefoot 5y ago
The radio is a completely separate sub system that is not affected by unlocking the boot loader of the main computer.
- bitwize 5y ago
  That's not always true. If it's possible to shave pennies off the BOM by having the radio driven by, or sharing memory with, the main CPU -- and it is possible -- there will be phones in the wild with that configuration.
  - waych 5y ago
    While it is certainly possible, it isn't true for any modern phone with an app store.
  - alerighi 5y ago
    Yes the radio can be on the same physical chip, but still they are two different systems. Unlocking the bootloader you get the ability to run an unsigned kernel on the main CPU, but still it doesn't give you access to the radio part, that has a completely different firmware (stored on a partition of the same flash memory, yes, but you see it as a black box) that is signed and checked and you cannot modify it. See it as the microcode of the CPU, something that is loaded at boot time but you cannot alter, patch, or even see what it does. The kernel can only talk to the modem trough AT commands, the same commands that you would use with a 4G USB modem that you plug into any computer. The fact that are physically on the same SOC doesn't implicate nothing in terms of security. In fact there are no security implication on unlocking a bootloader, if there were, well we would be in trouble since it's a relatively easy operation, that in most cases it's a matter of running a command from a CLI tool, and the only drawback is voiding the warranty.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      There are very low cost devices such as those Allwinner or Mediatek produce that are more popular in non-US, non-EU markets that do not have the barriers you are describing.
jaywalk 5y ago
Make it require a connection to a computer and disallow the stock OS from running at all when the bootloader is unlocked. I think those two hurdles should be more than enough to satisfy security concerns.
mmis1000 5y ago
Android phones triggers wipe on unlock. So use unlock bootloader to stole data simply don't work. Besides that, some phone will add a unremovble giant red exclamation mark on boot screen to notate the phone being unlocked to warn you `the phone is already unlocked, don't trust it unless it is done by you.`
- thebean11 5y ago
  Don't all modern phones encrypt user data on disk anyway?
  - bosswipe 5y ago
    The wipe on unlock thing is not about preventing others from getting your data, it's about preventing you from getting app data.
    - mmis1000 5y ago
      I though either way it true? There are some apps designed not to being backup without a trace. For example: some 2FA apps are designed to stay exactly on one machine for security reasons (They are meant to replace traditional 2fa device). Being backup easily compromises the requirements.
- robertlagrant 5y ago
  People start their phones rarely.
- thescriptkiddie 5y ago
  Would be nice if they provided a way to backup your phone before unlocking the bootloader, or at least put a warning that your phone is about to be wiped. I have personally lost data because of this, and there really is no way to backup an android device without having unlocked the bootloader first.
  - marcan_42 5y ago
foolmeonce 5y ago
Most phones secured bootloaders are hacked in less than 6 months if there is sufficient interest in the model. So if treatment of this as a huge security threat that makes other rights moot is valid then most of us should be able to return our improperly secured phones before their warranty is up.
- my123 5y ago
  Not the case, it takes significantly longer... if it happens at all. Much longer. It took until 2019 for checkra1n to become a thing to unlock Apple A7 to A11 devices. Apple A11 is a 2017 SoC. A12, A13, A14 remain uncracked today. In Android lands, bootloaders starting from quite some years ago are quite solid too, with no bypasses except when the device maker provides you the possibility to unlock it.
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    None of which is relevant to the premise that someone is going to do [insert something evil here - perhaps involving the radio]. Because if any device is cracked after any period of time then someone wanting to do [insert something evil] will just buy that device in order to do it.
pessimizer 5y ago
[abuse children and drugs, or be racist.]
- bluGill 5y ago
  That are the current choices. That could change in the future, it has changed in the past. At one time not of the right Christian sect was in the list, today nobody cares - just one example that I won't get into trouble for mentioning.
swiley 5y ago
Many SoCs let you burn a hash for the second stage bootloader. If your threat model includes this then build a copy of uboot that will only load kernels signed with your keys and burn the hash into the fuses of your device.
alerighi 5y ago
The radio firmware is something that is at another level. Even if you end up unlocking the bootloader, that doesn't give you access to the radio firmware, that is proprietary and needs to be signed, and cannot be modified. It's basically seen by the OS as a modem to which they talk trough AT commands (yes, they are still in use), the same thing that you would obtain by plugging in an USB modem to a normal PC. For Wi-Fi you can tweak the driver, if you want. But you can do the same with a network card that you buy for a couple of dollars so what's the point? Transmitting on the 2.4Ghz is something everyone can do if he wants. It's nonsense what you said. There nothing evil you can do by unlocking a phone. In Android an unlock triggers a factory reset, that will prevent accessing people personal data (and it's not really necessary if you have disk encryption, that every modern phone has as a default), so the concern of accessing people data doesn't exist. The concern about: but then a criminal can steal your phone and use it. Yes, there is. We can require to unlock the phone requesting a code from a website of the manufacturer so they can prove that you bought the phone, as some manufacturers do. But in reality, does it make sense? You can nowaday get a phone that is more powerful than the PC that I used 5 years ago for 200$, I mean 8 core CPU, 8Gb of RAM, 256Gb internal flash, in the following years the price will probably go even lower. Should I care? They only thing that I care is that whoever stoles the phone cannot access my personal data, and this is achieved by the disk encryption, everything else to me is useless, I would just buy another phone, but in reality is more probable that I will loose or break my phone that someone steals it.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  This is not always true. There are chips where the radio DSP cores have their program loaded into main memory and it's unsigned. You talk to them with mutexes and shared memory pages. There is also no legal basis for requiring radio controllers to have signature enforced firmware loading. He's being sarcastic. It's think of the children but with electronics and PII.
  - alerighi 5y ago
    I don't think that is the case of any smartphone SOC. Even for questions about power management you tend to implement radio function with a dedicated hardware, so that for example the CPU can go to sleep and be waked up when a phone call arrives (for examaple). It would be too expensive to have the main CPU implement the 4G radio in software, they don't do so, it would also require precise timing that a non real time OS cannot provide. Typically you have the modem that has its own microcontroller inside that runs its own firmware, that is encrypted. On Android phones you have a partition for the radio firmware, that you should really never touch (since doing so you can brick your device). Of course there will be a shared memory area between the radio and the main CPU to talk, but that is only for communication, then the radio microcontroller has its own RAM to implements its functions.

celestialcheese 5y ago

In the US, at least, unlocking devices is legal as of 2015(?) through DMCA exemptions, which has been huge for recyclers and refurbishers. Still couldn't get game console unlocking through, but at least phones / tablets / other devices that are locked can be unlocked and resold. https://resource-recycling.com/e-scrap/2018/11/01/digital-device-unlocking-allowances-renewed/ https://resource-recycling.com/e-scrap/2018/11/01/digital-de...

EvanAnderson 5y ago
These exemptions have to be renewed every 3 years. The 2018 exemptions for "jailbreaking" phones and tablets are still in force, but they will expire if not renewed.
- celestialcheese 5y ago
  There's work happening to make these permanent. [1] Until that happens, there are tireless volunteers and organizations lobbying for these exemptions every 3 years. [1] - https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2020/06/29/copyright-office-begins-period-petitioning-exemptions-section-1201-dmca/id=122887/ https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2020/06/29/copyright-office-begin...
- saurik 5y ago
  This was changed in the last cycle or so so if there aren't people challenging petitions they get semi-automatic renewals. Honestly, for unlocking bootloaders (note I initially wrote this comment in the mental context of carrier unlocks and then immediately went and edited it as I realized) we probably never needed the exemptions anyway, as there is a standing exempting for interop (which still does most of the work: the argument for the extra exemption is to provide one last step for the end-user as in 2009 it wasn't clear they could run the result, but currently everyone things they should be).
bosswipe 5y ago
It's meaningless if hackers can't bypass the security, which is true more and more as the companies get better with their security. What we need is bootloader unlocking provided by the manufacturers.

bluescrn 5y ago

User-replaceable batteries by law might be a better first step. Heck, maybe even some standard sizes for mobile device batteries (and while we're at it, also EV batteries... some sort of standard 'battery module' used by most/all vehicles would hugely help reuse/repair/recycling/upgrades).

onethought 5y ago
… that’s unique r&d for some companies. Why does it need to be standardised? Apple batteries are typically much smaller than what is in androids, because their chips are less power hungry… same goes for Tesla, their cars are more efficient… so standard battery packs would harm their overall product Don’t buy a device with a non replaceable battery if you don’t want one… why do you need the government for that?
samatman 5y ago
User-replaceable has nothing whatsoever to do with right to repair. Zero, zip, nada. A right to repair law might mandate that any device with a battery also have the battery sold, by the manufacturer, for a reasonable period of time. That gives you a practical right to repair the device by replacing the battery, and it's well-defined. "User replaceable" is not well defined. Does it mean you need to be able to do this with no tools at all? If not, what tools make it not 'user replaceable'? That no glue is used? Solder? My watch is literally a cell phone, and I don't welcome law which might make it bulkier or more awkward, to mollify people who want a plastic hinge to pop out their smartphone battery and swap in a new one in the field. The battery in my smartphone (and watch!) can be replaced by the manufacturer. Right-to-repair is about making sure that the owner of a device can do things themselves or from a third party, without licensing from the manufacturer: so selling consumable parts to all comers, providing some manuals maybe. It is not about whether you have the manual dexterity or special tooling to perform the replacement! If you want to optimize around that part being very easy, buy a product where it is, like the Dragonbox Pyra.
- bluescrn 5y ago
  But there's not much point having the right to repair if products are designed to be non-repairable and spare parts are unavailable. A battery is a consumable and should be user-replaceable. It might be a bit fiddly, with tiny screws and fragile connectors, but shouldn't require heat guns and chemicals to remove adhesives... (And if we're about to replace billions of vehicles with EVs, perhaps consuming the entire planet's supply of lithium, we should be thinking very carefully about how those batteries will be constructed, replaced, reused, recycled - and ensuring that we don't let capitalism create EVs that after a few years are almost as disposable as few-year-old iPhones...)

canadianfella 5y ago

>why cannot I run Can’t

sunshineforever 5y ago

This policy of smartphones has felt like a knife in my back for years. I hope someday for the widespread return of real computers. Goodbye to consumer media/tracking nodes branded as computers.

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

Thank you for your work. I absolutely agree with you on bootloader. I wanted to try PostmarketOS and found several Moto G4 play (well supported by pmOS) in the used market but alas Motorola has arbitrarily removed unlock codes for older devices from their website! Since Motorola was giving unlock codes by revoking warranty officially, there were no attempts to unlock it elsewhere and so all older Motorola phones which haven't been unlocked earlier are useless for any aftermarket use. As for this law, Considering repairability is the easiest and most accessible way to address e-waste and that phones, computers are a major contributor, There doesn't seem to be a rational explanation behind their exclusion other than briefcases exchanged courtesy of Trillion dollar fruit company.