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> “Think of this as an endless war,” > "Fear and anger have to be a part of this campaign" > "exploit the public’s short attention span for scientific debate,

> “Think of this as an endless war,” > "Fear and anger have to be a part of this campaign" > "exploit the public’s short attention span for scientific debate, and play on people’s emotions" He just described almost every religion out there. Scary...

ttctciyf 5y ago
I think it's more a broad brush description of age-old propaganda techniques[1], which have been widely employed by many organized religions over the years, just as they have been by others with an interest in controlling debate. One particularly interesting (IMO) tidbit was Berman's strategy of encouraging doubt and ignorance. Rather than argue facts, try and muddy the waters he suggests: > “Instead of getting the ‘he said she said’ debate, what you will get with the factual debate, often times, you’re going to get into people get overwhelmed by the science and ‘I don’t know who to believe,” Berman told the attendees at the conference. “But if you got enough on your side you get people into a position of paralysis on the issue.” > “You get into people’s minds a tie. They don’t know who is right,” he said. “And you get all ties because a tie basically ensures the status quo.” [2] Thus the utility of paid-for "expert" opinion taking issue with one strand or other of the broad scientific consensus on climate: not to win the public debate but to make reasoned debate ineffective and "ensure the status quo." This methodology is part of the subject matter of Agnotology - "the study of culturally-conditioned ignorance." [3] 1: https://propagandaprinciples.wordpress.com/propaganda-techniques/ https://propagandaprinciples.wordpress.com/propaganda-techni... 2: https://www.desmog.com/2014/10/31/oil-and-gas-industry-s-endless-war-fracking-critics-revealed-rick-berman/ https://www.desmog.com/2014/10/31/oil-and-gas-industry-s-end... 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology
- skapadia 5y ago
  Thank you for those links/references - much appreciated!
- smokelegend 5y ago
  Isn't all marketing a form of propaganda?
minikites 5y ago
The religion is capitalism. Millions of people believe in it with such fervor that any criticism of the idea feels like a criticism of them personally. Any criticism of deities (billionaires) or their church (business) is dismissed as sour grapes, because our deities are always benevolent.
- simonh 5y ago
  I really wish, pretty please, if every time someone slagged off capitalism here they would suggest their alternative. I know what you're against, but that's not useful or interesting because you don't even say why. What are you for? How would you fix this flaw, this one here in this thread that you say is because of capitalism. Why is it because of capitalism and what's your solution to it? Why would your system not have this flaw? Can you give an example of a non-capitalist system that avoided this problem? That would be an interesting and useful comment. Even if I disagreed with you I would gladly upvote it as a useful contribution. Yes this is a flaw in capitalism, simply because it's a flaw in human nature. What system is going to change that? As Adam Smith said in the Wealth of Nations: "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." These people are vile scumbags, they are taking the freedoms and benefits liberal democracy and capitalism provide and abusing them. We should expose them, counter their narrative, lobby our representatives and use the freedoms liberal democracy and capitalism provide us to oppose them.
  - orwin 5y ago
    Worker-owned companies, only financed by debt and not actions. You can have the top management own 20% of the company, middle management 20%, and the workers 60%, prorate the votes following that, and vote should be anonymous. On highly disputed issues (defining a new direction that needs more than the CEO/CTO opinion), you can have a lottery to form a team representing those percentages. Make the workers invested in the company, in the product, in security. Having your top management paid to extract as much money as they can for the investor is a recipe for exploitation and poor products.
roody15 5y ago
Seems like covid coverage (IMO)
MR4D 5y ago
Or any political campaign.
swayvil 5y ago
It covers our recent (big, vague, heavily propagandized) "wars" nicely too. IE : wars on communism, drugs, terror... And now we have a new "war". The war on covid. To win it we must sacrifice everything (free speech, free assembly, travel) It may go on forever (2 weeks to flatten the curve ... 1 year to... variants, delta...) Are you seeing the pattern here? Does it inspire you to raise your eyebrow?
- IntelMiner 5y ago
  I don't think it's entirely fair to compare the "red scare" and the manufactured war on drugs to a literal pandemic
  - swayvil 5y ago
    Then consider the pattern to which I referred.
    - IntelMiner 5y ago
      It's drawing an increeeedibly long bow
chha 5y ago
Reminds me about the Thursday Next series by Jasper Fforde. One of the subplots in book four is about the company "Goliath" and their attempts to be recognized as a religious organization. T

ttctciyf 5y ago

I think it's more a broad brush description of age-old propaganda techniques[1], which have been widely employed by many organized religions over the years, just as they have been by others with an interest in controlling debate. One particularly interesting (IMO) tidbit was Berman's strategy of encouraging doubt and ignorance. Rather than argue facts, try and muddy the waters he suggests: > “Instead of getting the ‘he said she said’ debate, what you will get with the factual debate, often times, you’re going to get into people get overwhelmed by the science and ‘I don’t know who to believe,” Berman told the attendees at the conference. “But if you got enough on your side you get people into a position of paralysis on the issue.” > “You get into people’s minds a tie. They don’t know who is right,” he said. “And you get all ties because a tie basically ensures the status quo.” [2] Thus the utility of paid-for "expert" opinion taking issue with one strand or other of the broad scientific consensus on climate: not to win the public debate but to make reasoned debate ineffective and "ensure the status quo." This methodology is part of the subject matter of Agnotology - "the study of culturally-conditioned ignorance." [3] 1: https://propagandaprinciples.wordpress.com/propaganda-techniques/ https://propagandaprinciples.wordpress.com/propaganda-techni... 2: https://www.desmog.com/2014/10/31/oil-and-gas-industry-s-endless-war-fracking-critics-revealed-rick-berman/ https://www.desmog.com/2014/10/31/oil-and-gas-industry-s-end... 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology

skapadia 5y ago
Thank you for those links/references - much appreciated!
smokelegend 5y ago
Isn't all marketing a form of propaganda?

minikites 5y ago

The religion is capitalism. Millions of people believe in it with such fervor that any criticism of the idea feels like a criticism of them personally. Any criticism of deities (billionaires) or their church (business) is dismissed as sour grapes, because our deities are always benevolent.

simonh 5y ago
I really wish, pretty please, if every time someone slagged off capitalism here they would suggest their alternative. I know what you're against, but that's not useful or interesting because you don't even say why. What are you for? How would you fix this flaw, this one here in this thread that you say is because of capitalism. Why is it because of capitalism and what's your solution to it? Why would your system not have this flaw? Can you give an example of a non-capitalist system that avoided this problem? That would be an interesting and useful comment. Even if I disagreed with you I would gladly upvote it as a useful contribution. Yes this is a flaw in capitalism, simply because it's a flaw in human nature. What system is going to change that? As Adam Smith said in the Wealth of Nations: "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." These people are vile scumbags, they are taking the freedoms and benefits liberal democracy and capitalism provide and abusing them. We should expose them, counter their narrative, lobby our representatives and use the freedoms liberal democracy and capitalism provide us to oppose them.
- orwin 5y ago
  Worker-owned companies, only financed by debt and not actions. You can have the top management own 20% of the company, middle management 20%, and the workers 60%, prorate the votes following that, and vote should be anonymous. On highly disputed issues (defining a new direction that needs more than the CEO/CTO opinion), you can have a lottery to form a team representing those percentages. Make the workers invested in the company, in the product, in security. Having your top management paid to extract as much money as they can for the investor is a recipe for exploitation and poor products.

roody15 5y ago

Seems like covid coverage (IMO)

MR4D 5y ago

Or any political campaign.

swayvil 5y ago

It covers our recent (big, vague, heavily propagandized) "wars" nicely too. IE : wars on communism, drugs, terror... And now we have a new "war". The war on covid. To win it we must sacrifice everything (free speech, free assembly, travel) It may go on forever (2 weeks to flatten the curve ... 1 year to... variants, delta...) Are you seeing the pattern here? Does it inspire you to raise your eyebrow?

IntelMiner 5y ago
I don't think it's entirely fair to compare the "red scare" and the manufactured war on drugs to a literal pandemic
- swayvil 5y ago
  Then consider the pattern to which I referred.
  - IntelMiner 5y ago
    It's drawing an increeeedibly long bow

chha 5y ago

Reminds me about the Thursday Next series by Jasper Fforde. One of the subplots in book four is about the company "Goliath" and their attempts to be recognized as a religious organization. T