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Maybe it’s time to signal political leaders that climate collapse is an urgent issue.
by andrei_says_ 5y ago
Maybe it’s time to signal political leaders that climate collapse is an urgent issue.
- jeffbee 5y agoPerhaps in the same way the civil engineers signal to south Florida condo boards that their buildings are about to collapse? It's the same problem, really. Collective action by a political body controlled by older people who are trying to just hold on to their wealth until they die is impossible. We need new political structures to write down the capital loss on all the junk we built in the 20th century that has no purpose in the 21st, and the political will to tell a handful of people that yes your underground mineral rights are being expropriated.
- 6f8986c3 5y agoEnvironmentalists fought against nuclear power for 70 years. The result? We burned coal. So I’m not interested. You wanted the world to burn. So let it burn.
- Avamander 5y agoHow much of that has actually been environmentalists and not a result of intentional deceptive tactics and undermining of public education by fossil fuel companies?
- 6f8986c3 5y agoMost of it has been environmentalists.
- bavent 5y agoCan you provide some evidence of that?
- robotresearcher 5y agoNot evidence of relative magnitude, but here's a high profile green org that is explicitly anti-nuclear: https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/nuclear-power-is-a-losing-proposition/ https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/nuclear-power-is-a-losing-pro...
- nradov 5y agoMost of the effective opposition has come not from environmentalists per se, but rather from NIMBYs who don't want to live near a nuclear plant. After the incidents at Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima it's difficult to convince local residents that newer designs are inherently very safe. Even if they support nuclear power in principle they want it built somewhere else.
- justshowpost 5y agoThis! You nailed it. Actually, the best practical example is environmentalists-crawled Germany vs. energy-exporting France.
- dillondoyle 5y agoI think about 40% of the country has been 'signaling' pretty hard. 30% are actively pushing for more emissions/denial. And the rest are sick of the infighting. Take the bipartisan infrastructure 'agreement' (not final). Republicans refused to do anything but support more cars...
- TiberiusC 5y agoEconomic empowerment is the single greatest strategy to improve the climate and that is the entirety of the Republican platform.
- dillondoyle 5y agoHow so?
- TiberiusC 5y agoMarc Andreessen expands on this more but essentially GDP growth allows for more productivity growth that wouldn’t occur without economic growth. And the more productivity growth we have the less natural resources we need.
- throwitaway1235 5y agoI would first want to see the study confirming this current heat dome is a result of climate change.
- angst_ridden 5y agoAnd what would you accept as proof? Meteorological models showing the jet stream gets "wavier" with increased temperature?
- throwitaway1235 5y agoI would accept as proof whatever evidence/studies climatologists suggest prove that this heat wave is a result of climate change. Earth science should not be treated as religion.
- paxys 5y agoIt's easy to blame political leaders, but they are (mostly) elected by the general population. Here in the US ~50% of the people vote for climate change deniers, so they are the ones you need to convince.
- TremendousJudge 5y agoUS voters didn't become climate change deniers by chance
- NDizzle 5y agoHow do US voters go about changing climate policy in China and India?
- freeflight 5y agoBy voting for politicians who contribute and participate in international regulation, like the Paris Agreement, instead of just quitting them.
- w-j-w 5y agoTrade war perhaps? Against non-nuclear powers (like Brazil), conventional war is not off the table.
- emgeee 5y agoI'd say voting in officials who are willing to pressure these nations
- 908B64B197 5y agoImport tariffs and immigration quota reduction for countries not doing their part.
- chimprich 5y agoTaking serious steps to make changes in your own country before requesting changes in others.
- 5y ago
- wnevets 5y agoNah, it snowed that one time [1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/02/26/jim-inhofes-snowball-has-disproven-climate-change-once-and-for-all/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/02/26/ji...
- cryptoz 5y agoHaha. They do something like this every time it snows. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/fox-news-buries-al-gore-s-book-in-snow-to-prove-something-or-other-about-climate-change-video https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/fox-news-buries-al-gore-s...
- fooey 5y agoAmazingly, the GOP just last week formed a Conservative Climate Caucus with something around 60 members. They even explicitly admit climate change is man made https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/06/25/utah-congressman-introduces-gop-only-caucus-address-climate-change/5346913001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/06/25/utah...
- heavyset_go 5y agoWhy? They're often part of the same ownership class that stands to make a lot of money from the status quo. Even if the world goes to shit, they're wealthy enough to insulate themselves from the fallout, and probably wouldn't mind being lords of the ashes.
- cal5k 5y agoEh, here's the thing: politicians will use whatever crisis is available to them to cynically further their own agendas. I'm sure plenty of them are tweeting away about how this heatwave is a clear sign of climate change (because that's what their constituents want to hear), and yet any meteorologist worth their salt would be hesitant to make that connection - weather is not climate. Climate is a meta-phenomenon. When they use climate as cover for whatever policy agenda they intended to pursue anyway, it cheapens the discourse - political opposition that agrees on the facts likely disagrees about the solution set, particularly if it is ideologically-driven, and lumping people into childish categories like "climate deniers" only serves to harden positions. And yet - a lot of these so-called "climate deniers" will happily buy an electric F-150 because Ford has made an attractive product that makes good choices easier. No need for a rancher in rural Montana to downgrade to a Prius to signal that he cares about the climate. In the end, politicians are not even the right vehicles for this type of change - there's no good evidence that nation-states can achieve a game-theoretically stable set of climate policies given the harsh economic consequences of taxing the crap out of your country's industrial output. Far better results can be obtained through good old-fashioned free market capitalism. When good choices are easy to make, those choices will be made. The market will abide.
- fragbait65 5y agoThe problem is that we have elected leaders that only care about being in power. They will happily watch the world burn unless a majority of the voters want them to move. Sadly I don't think most people are ready to make the necessary sacrifices to stop climate change. At least not yet. And I think we will pass the point of no return before people are ready to make those sacrifices. The problem is not technology or scientific, the problem is human nature.