16 ms·
Guess I'd better say a few things. First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a
by CliffStoll 5y ago
Guess I'd better say a few things.
First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a Tuesday evening!
I don't really care that much about selling Klein bottles over Amazon - it's mainly to reach parents over the holidays. But I do wish that Amazon would do something about this kind of thing.
Finally, I"m very low on stocks of glass Klein bottles. It's weird for me to ask my friends not to buy the things I've worked so hard to make, but I guess I'd better. I hope to have more manifolds in mid to late summer.
Warm wishes all around,
-Cliff (way late on a cloudy Tuesday evening in Oakland)
- atlanta90210 5y agoBig fan sir - thank you for all you have done and continue to do.
- meesterdude 5y agoHold lots of respect for you and regret that this has happened to you, but thanks for bringing these specifics to light. Amazon needs to fix this - or regulators need to force them to.
- furyg3 5y agoHey Cliff, I just have to say thanks. I read the Cuckoo's Egg in the early 90s and while I was already interested in computers, the idea that there were "networks" of them out there... well... it blew my mind. I immediately went to my school librarian and said I wanted to try to connect computers together, or try to dial-up to library information services, etc. We started learning together. You were a huge inspiration, thanks.
- beardyw 5y agoI read it only last year. A brilliant and now historical book.
- BuildTheRobots 5y agoMind slightly blown. The Cookoo's Egg is a great book, Cliff is amazing to watch in the Klein Bottle videos, but I've only just realised they're the same person!
- rbanffy 5y agoThere’s a movie about it, with Cliff Stoll himself on the lead role.
- incompatible 5y agoThere's a movie about the hacker: 23 – Nichts ist so wie es scheint.
- rbanffy 5y agoThat’s true. I like both movies.
- Tepix 5y agoSame here, my copy from 1989 is still on my bookshelf. Thanks for being inspiring!
- cartoonworld 5y agoThere was also a television adaptation, "The KGB, the Computer, and Me" produced by PBS Nova in like 1992, starring Clifford Stoll as Cliff Stoll! Here is a bootlegged youtube link--it's the best I've got. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGv5BqNL164 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGv5BqNL164 A legend!
- MR4D 5y agoThat you are linking to a bootleg copy of video on this thread is...ironic, to say the least.
- adolph 5y agoWell, it is unavailable on Amazon... https://www.amazon.com/KGB-Computer-Me-VHS/dp/B00004Y50L https://www.amazon.com/KGB-Computer-Me-VHS/dp/B00004Y50L https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B000JLM0RQ/ref=atv_dp_season_select_s1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B000JLM0RQ/ref=atv_dp...
- ASalazarMX 5y agoDon't worry, I'm sure "AMVOOM The KGB, the Computer, and Me" will be listed anytime soon.
- kirillzubovsky 5y agoFascinating movie, thank you for linking to it! I loved to see what logging and tracing looked like back in the day. Looks a lot more fun than just dumping terabytes to S3. I also really enjoyed how stoked and energetic Cliff was about the whole thing. What a gem!
- belter 5y agoThank you for the link. Amazing. And Cliff as himself ! I read the book but just could not stop watching the documentary. Next time I am in Hannover will have to take a photo in front of the flat. It got a repaint though... https://www.google.com/maps/@52.371627,9.7208921,3a,53.1y,139.11h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjE4vXqAv0Vh8Rzco1Nk0LQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@52.371627,9.7208921,3a,53.1y,13...
- theelous3 5y agoHa! I didn't know the klien bottle guy was the accounting error guy. That's very cool. Googled him there and he's listed as an astronomer. But the astronomers consider him a computer guy ;)
- cartoonworld 5y agoYou should read his book! He discusses this in the first chapter. He helped (or maybe solely) design the lens at W. M. Keck observatory, and you can see him on Numberphile a lot.
- _joel 5y agoDefinitely, I read it in a day it was so enthralling.
- CliffStoll 5y agoTook a year to write. Asynchronous I/O, I guess.
- bigiain 5y agoSo long as more than 365 people spent a day or more reading it, you got your revenge on the universe… ;-)
- CliffStoll 5y agoAaah - a tilt of the karmic plane!
- theelous3 5y agoI did! A long long time ago. That's why I mentioned it. It always stuck with me :) Brilliant read.
- alexdean 5y agoI just wanted to jump in and say the same thing. I had the hardback of the Cuckoo's Egg as a teenager in the 90s. Huge inspiration to me and I have worked in and around tech ever since. Thank you.
- JshWright 5y agoOne of my (very sincerely held) goals in life is to be as excited about _something_ as Cliff Stoll is about _everything_.
- queuebert 5y agoThat book changed my life.
- CliffStoll 5y agoChanged mine, too. Q-Bert.
- noefingway 5y agoa fantastic and inspirational read. also great cookie recipe! made them many times
- CliffStoll 5y agoMy reciprocal appreciation to Fury, Atlanta/n, and Meester (and my many other friends on Hacker News). I deeply appreciate the kindness and support of the hacker community - sends me back thirty five years to when I was fooling with a Unix workstation and stumbled on a small accounting error. Back then, I was surprised by the outpouring of help, suggestions, and collaboration from other computer folk. At this moment, I again thank this community -- across decades and across the globe, I'm heartened and happy to be one of the gang. Warm wishes all around, -Cliff
- omgJustTest 5y agoTheir blackhead remover product might be brand hijacking, but their ACME Remover Product! it's the real deal. Just see this review of their product: "100% success at removing ACME (Klein bottles) from some kids, parents, even works on some websites!" -Cliff Stoll (He did not say this, its a joke!)
- cowmix 5y agoWhen I had my little ISP in the early 90s, Cliff's book was given to every new customer for the first few years.
- cwkoss 5y agoYou seem like a really cool and interesting person, Cliff. Do you still use the RC mini forklift for storage? I've always thought that seemed like a lot of fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg6woZULFeM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg6woZULFeM
- smithza 5y agoCliff, if you ever read this, I have a computer science book club that could use reading suggestions. Thoughts? Anything from management to best practices ... we will be adding your seminal work to our list too :)
- Qwertious 5y agoDon't buy this guy's klein bottles, they're a scam - they're only THREE dimensional! Such a rip off. How am I supposed to store a ŷ̶̺̎͌͐̿̽̊́̕ŏ̶̗̈́̓̍̎̃͠g̶̝̺̜̜͋̿̚ͅ-̷̧̛̈́̔́s̷̰̀͌́̈́ơ̷̝̭̫͛́͘ẗ̴̹̱̖̥́h̸̡̡͙̻̀o̸̹̘̾̀͗̇̕t̵̗̠̄̽̈́͑ḧ̵̳̰̩̲͈̜͉̝́́͌͐ in this thing?
- Y_Y 5y agoThe classic Klein bottle is a 2D surface. It doesn't embed in R^3 regardless of whether you give it a little thickness so you can make it out of matter.
- bawana 5y agoDoes anyone else see 10 vertical lines of characters that look like the ‘matrix’ font overlaid on the word ‘yog so Thoth’ in the last two lines of qwertious’ post?
- martyvis 5y agoIt's a Unicode trick https://lingojam.com/GlitchTextGenerator https://lingojam.com/GlitchTextGenerator
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- neilpmas 5y agoI do
- technothrasher 5y agoPh’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gerdesj 5y ago
- GistNoesis 5y agoWhat about the following listing (first result for the search "acme klein bottle" ) : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08YWM31V4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08YWM31V4 by "Brand: Cradle & Dew" "Kleinverse Exquisite Glass Klein Bottle, Handmade Math & Science Education Vase, Mobius Strip Glass Display for Gifts, Geometry Decoration & Theorem Glass - Collab with Mr Cliff Stoll" $74.90 + shipping How linked to you is this ? Are these just reselling your products or are they independently made ? Edit : In the description it states "These Klein bottles are proudly designed in Singapore, The Garden City".
- jfk13 5y agoI was going to ask about this too -- my suspicious nature immediately thinks they're improperly taking advantage of Cliff's name to promote their product. But maybe there's a genuine collaboration and it's all above board?
- zwaps 5y agoSeems they are also ripping off his product descriptions. Anything that can be done to get these people off of amazon?
- atatatat 5y agoGet it to affect their revenue somehow (people used to do boycotts for things like this, but now everything is one company, so what do we do?)
- lopis 5y agoSo in 2015 [1] you said you ordered enough bottles for about 10 years, but you're already running out? That's quite the success story you have there! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU
- CliffStoll 5y agoLopis, you're right. Forward planning has never been my strong suit, and backward planning doesn't seem to work for me. There are some smart people in the world who can predict demand. Not me! And, about twenty minutes ago, I ran out of large Klein bottles. It'll be September before I can get more, what with shortages of borosilicate glass.
- williesleg 5y agoGo back to punched cards ass munch
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- kabbalf 5y agoHey Cliff, just wanted to say that the Klein bottle I bought in 2014 or so is the best buying experience I’ve ever had. It’s still the only piece of home decoration I own. Thanks!
- CliffStoll 5y agoMany thanks, indeed, Kabb. I hope the manifold is still working after, uh, seven years. (You're aware, of course, that it's covered by my exclusive 1,000,000 year guarantee.)
- prepend 5y agoThanks for your book. A friend recommended it to me as a “beach book” and I bought it not knowing anything about it. Best beach book ever.
- duxup 5y agoThere was a story about a guy who had a self published book. He was the only person printing / selling his book. Until someone showed up on amazon and sold it too, they just copied it and printed it themselves. The copied book is identical, cover and all, images in the Amazon listing too ... Amazon chose to do nothing.
- fourseventy 5y agoHe should just sue for copyright infringement.
- duxup 5y agoIIRC: Amazon won't tell him who it is and he suspects it's just someone out of legal reach / as the book is just self published his legal resources are pretty limited.
- EricE 5y agoWhich is what the infringers hope - and the major engine driving much of Amazon's profits. Fraud. I remember when people used to (heck still do) get worked up about Walmart but those same people not only order from Amazon all the time, they even join B mans private club (Prime).
- kevin_thibedeau 5y agoYou sue Amazon for contributory infringement. Subpoena for the number of fraudulent copies they sold and then press for triple damages plus all of your fees. Even if that number is tiny you'll cost them much more in legal bills.
- wpietri 5y agoI'm not sure why I'd spend $50k forcing Amazon to spend $250k. They can play that game a lot longer than me. Honestly, all the stories in this thread make me very glad I canceled my Prime subscription. I still use Amazon occasionally, but now most of my purchases go direct. With the exception of books; there I order from my local bookstore.
- capitainenemo 5y agoMuch love, I've read your site through, often times out loud to family and coworkers. GL w/ Amazon. Minor nitpick. The link to go back to top of page at the bottom of https://kleinbottle.com/ https://kleinbottle.com/ links to index.htm and not index.html and is thus a 404. I guess you could just link it to / or ideally change <body bgcolor="#fff"> to <body id="top" bgcolor="#fff"> and link to <a href="#top"> to avoid a new page load.
- capitainenemo 5y ago(if anyone's wondering, now fixed )
- CliffStoll 5y agoFixed, because of your help and advice. >Thank you!< -Cliff (who stumbles over .htm and .html files)
- amluto 5y agoHave you considered filing an FTC complaint? The new FTC commissioner actually seems to care about these things.
- silexia 5y agoI second this!
- heavyset_go 5y agoThis is a good idea. It also would help to reach out to your state and Amazon's Attorneys General offices, too.
- js2 5y agoYou signed a copy of The Cuckoo's Egg for me, oh, maybe 30 years ago, which I still own. I just wanted to say thank you for being a positive inspiration in my life. Hot ziggitty! https://ibb.co/8jy12Z8 https://ibb.co/8jy12Z8 https://ibb.co/Nxt7V6j https://ibb.co/Nxt7V6j
- CliffStoll 5y agoJay - that looks surprisingly like my signature. Wonder who counterfeited it... Cheers, -Cliff
- randylahey 5y agoCliff, reading `The Cuckoo's Egg` in the 90's when I was in my early teens was a watershed moment in my life. Set me up upon a path of discovery and fascination with technology of all kinds. Countless thanks!
- astrange 5y agoI was going to say, I don’t think that’s the message you were supposed to take from it, but it looks like he retracted his next book. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Snake_Oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Snake_Oil
- blairanderson 5y agoHi Cliff, I'm an independent amazon consultant. Your Amazon problems would be solved with a regular USPTO trademark. They don't recognize common-law trademarks because they are heavily arguable in litigation. USPTO is a database of trademarks already scrutinized by trademark attorneys and government. It's not perfect, but it is a collection that Amazon recognizes. You can do this for $2000-ish and never think about it again. then GS1.org for barcodes Now you can sell your bottles in museum gift-shops!
- hhh 5y agoWhile this would probably work, it seems insane to me that this would be the only thing to protect his listing from a completely different category of product being merged with another.
- Accujack 5y agoYou're not wrong. Because Amazon's system is insane unless you realize it's designed only for the benefit of the corporation, not for any kind of fairness or quality.
- krferriter 5y agoThe success of Amazon retail is in part because of the ~feature~ of seamless, rampant IP infringement and zero legal or financial liability on the part of Amazon for making money off it.
- greyhair 5y agoWhich has gotten worse over time, and one of the several reasons why my Prime membership will not renew this year.
- cbsmith 5y agoWhat's unfortunate is that ideally fairness & quality should be in the interests of the marketplace.
- shostack 5y agoJust wanted to say while your bottles are awesome, your under-house storage and retrieval system is the stuff of my childhood dreams and my claustrophobic adult nightmares. How did you go about designing it? Was it fairly organic? Or did you have the full plan from the beginning?
- ggerules 5y agoCliff, Thanks for being in this world. I still own my hardback copy of "The Cuckoo's Egg" from 30 some odd years ago. I also talk about the events that unfolded in that book to my students! It's a great story!
- jayspell 5y agoCliff I love your website, it makes me all nostalgic for the internet of the 90's / early 2000's - full of personality and humor.
- code_duck 5y agoThis borosilicate shortage sounds worrisome! I’m inactive now, but did boro flamework for ~20 years and just wanted to say as a fellow glassblower that I love what you do with glass.
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y agoI love my Klein bottle earrings, there so tiny! Thanks Cliff!
- artful-hacker 5y agoHi Cliff, I want to buy your books, but suddenly I don't want to buy them through Amazon, is there a better website for me to buy them from?