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Instant ADUs... Great, an easy way to increase the density of suburban neighborhoods that weren't designed for it while enriching wealthy landowners and providi

Instant ADUs... Great, an easy way to increase the density of suburban neighborhoods that weren't designed for it while enriching wealthy landowners and providing sub-standard housing to the lower class. Shower thought: when will we see a company like Amazon or Costco experiment with providing an entire city, leveraging their efficient production chains and cost-cutting techniques? Would you live in a pre-fab town engineered to your demographics (even if Amazon owned all your data)?

buf 5y ago
Did you see the latest Loki? In the year 2050(?), they had a town in Alabama owned and operated by a company named Roxxcart.
hytdstd 5y ago
>providing sub-standard housing to the lower class. Can you elaborate on the problem with this? I don't see how adding an ADU to the market hurts the lower class.
- musingsole 5y ago
  > sub-standard housing > increase the density of suburban neighborhoods that weren't designed for it GP's vision of how this hurts the lower class seems readily apparent.
  - hytdstd 5y ago
    If the ADU is sub-standard, then the lower class can choose to not live there. I didn't ask about the density statement, I understand the argument the GP made.
    - lovich 5y ago
      > If the ADU is sub-standard, then the lower class can choose to not live there. Buddy, not for nothing but that sentence could be a textbook definition of a synonym for “Let them eat cake” Are the lower class supposed to use their vast sums of savings to choose more expensive housing? If a 20 year old Toyota Corolla with 200k miles is substandard for them can they simply choose to buy new?
      - hytdstd 5y ago
        I earnestly believe that an ADU (or anything, such as a car) on market provides an option. That is what I was trying to say. My original question was this: how does adding an ADU to the market hurt the lower class?
        lovich 5y ago
        I don’t think providing an adu of <120 sq ft will hurt the lower class in the same that I don’t think sweatshops in developing countries are hurting the lower class. I get how they aren’t great but the fact that people will use/work at them without coercion shows that they are better than nothing. I agree that you are correct there. What am I pointing out is how you phrased your statement like the lower class has other options than the cheapest option available, whether or not it’s sub standard. If you are unaware the mythological story around Marie Antoinette is that when she was told the peasantry could no longer afford bread responded with “let them eat cake” because she did not understand that going above the basics was not a viable option. The phrasing of your statement combined with the reality of the world came off like you were suggesting the lower class can simply spend more money if they didn’t like the low tier housing, regardless of your actual intent
        ctdonath 5y ago
        This is part of an ongoing attempt to create quality affordable housing - just as other products have done over time. If the product weren’t there, the option wouldn’t be there - and your reasoning functionally favors driving down lower classes by denying them steps up. No, there is not some grand capitalist conspiracy to subjugate multitudes into poverty to seize their paltry holdings. Capitalism raises the poor by giving them options that benefit both parties; the burgeoning ADU market seeks to give better homes to poor, which is a hard goal with limited (but existing!) incentives.
        lovich 5y ago
        I feel like no one responding to me in this thread is capable of understanding how the tone of your wording changes how it is received by others. I understand how capitalism works and that this provides an option that wasn’t available before. Telling people who have next to nothing that they can simply choose another house if they think this one is sub standard, while factually accurate, makes you sound like a complete asshole who doesn’t understand that they don’t have the resources to pick other options That’s the entire point I’m making. Any response about capitalism or ADUs is ignoring my point and talking past me
- stevenicr 5y ago
  the way I read the comment, it's a way to create a new lower class - while propping up landowners. "enriching wealthy landowners and providing sub-standard housing to the lower class" While I don't think all or most 'average home(land)owners are "wealthy" ' - It is an interesting view to consider - there is an income bracket that could afford these in someone else's backyard - and likely never save enough money for a down-payment on a similar located chunk of suburban land - and being in that spot you may see the average homeowner as being wealthy comparatively. Just because I read it that way, does not mean that's the way the OP intended it - I dunno what the full though process was. This may simply reflect the cascading experiences I have had and lead me to think of it in that light. I myself hope that ADUs are a standard option in all zoning across the country and only in rare cases prevented. I can see positive and negative things coming from increased housing supply in areas, i think it's fair to consider many side effects and consider ways to buffer any negative effects as well.
atwebb 5y ago
Amazon is building a bunch of workforce housing in some cities I believe (probably someone here knows a bit more). Also, queue up Sixteen Tons and some mentions of company scrip.
jfim 5y ago
> Shower thought: when will we see a company like Amazon or Costco experiment with providing an entire city, leveraging their efficient production chains and cost-cutting techniques? This was a thing a century ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Modern_Homes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Modern_Homes
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  Did you read that comment right? Selling pallets of materials and blueprints to individual people to make a single house is not even close to building up a wide area themselves.
fighterpilot 5y ago
> Shower thought: when will we see a company like Amazon or Costco experiment with providing an entire city Hershey did that in 1903, although it was more a means to an end rather than a product in itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey,_Pennsylvania#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey,_Pennsylvania#History
JKCalhoun 5y ago
I thought I saw a lot of corporate-branded housing (skyscrapers) in Seoul years ago but I may have been mistaken about their function.
- baybal2 5y ago
  http://www.koreasigns.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/apart-cluster.png http://www.koreasigns.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/apar...
cbhl 5y ago
They already did. Circa the early 1900s -- the Sears catalog offered kit homes by catalog. All the necessary parts would come, pre-cut, in a wax-sealed boxcar.

buf 5y ago

Did you see the latest Loki? In the year 2050(?), they had a town in Alabama owned and operated by a company named Roxxcart.

hytdstd 5y ago

>providing sub-standard housing to the lower class. Can you elaborate on the problem with this? I don't see how adding an ADU to the market hurts the lower class.

musingsole 5y ago
> sub-standard housing > increase the density of suburban neighborhoods that weren't designed for it GP's vision of how this hurts the lower class seems readily apparent.
- hytdstd 5y ago
  If the ADU is sub-standard, then the lower class can choose to not live there. I didn't ask about the density statement, I understand the argument the GP made.
  - lovich 5y ago
    > If the ADU is sub-standard, then the lower class can choose to not live there. Buddy, not for nothing but that sentence could be a textbook definition of a synonym for “Let them eat cake” Are the lower class supposed to use their vast sums of savings to choose more expensive housing? If a 20 year old Toyota Corolla with 200k miles is substandard for them can they simply choose to buy new?
    - hytdstd 5y ago
      I earnestly believe that an ADU (or anything, such as a car) on market provides an option. That is what I was trying to say. My original question was this: how does adding an ADU to the market hurt the lower class?
      - lovich 5y ago
        I don’t think providing an adu of <120 sq ft will hurt the lower class in the same that I don’t think sweatshops in developing countries are hurting the lower class. I get how they aren’t great but the fact that people will use/work at them without coercion shows that they are better than nothing. I agree that you are correct there. What am I pointing out is how you phrased your statement like the lower class has other options than the cheapest option available, whether or not it’s sub standard. If you are unaware the mythological story around Marie Antoinette is that when she was told the peasantry could no longer afford bread responded with “let them eat cake” because she did not understand that going above the basics was not a viable option. The phrasing of your statement combined with the reality of the world came off like you were suggesting the lower class can simply spend more money if they didn’t like the low tier housing, regardless of your actual intent
        ctdonath 5y ago
        This is part of an ongoing attempt to create quality affordable housing - just as other products have done over time. If the product weren’t there, the option wouldn’t be there - and your reasoning functionally favors driving down lower classes by denying them steps up. No, there is not some grand capitalist conspiracy to subjugate multitudes into poverty to seize their paltry holdings. Capitalism raises the poor by giving them options that benefit both parties; the burgeoning ADU market seeks to give better homes to poor, which is a hard goal with limited (but existing!) incentives.
        lovich 5y ago
        I feel like no one responding to me in this thread is capable of understanding how the tone of your wording changes how it is received by others. I understand how capitalism works and that this provides an option that wasn’t available before. Telling people who have next to nothing that they can simply choose another house if they think this one is sub standard, while factually accurate, makes you sound like a complete asshole who doesn’t understand that they don’t have the resources to pick other options That’s the entire point I’m making. Any response about capitalism or ADUs is ignoring my point and talking past me
stevenicr 5y ago
the way I read the comment, it's a way to create a new lower class - while propping up landowners. "enriching wealthy landowners and providing sub-standard housing to the lower class" While I don't think all or most 'average home(land)owners are "wealthy" ' - It is an interesting view to consider - there is an income bracket that could afford these in someone else's backyard - and likely never save enough money for a down-payment on a similar located chunk of suburban land - and being in that spot you may see the average homeowner as being wealthy comparatively. Just because I read it that way, does not mean that's the way the OP intended it - I dunno what the full though process was. This may simply reflect the cascading experiences I have had and lead me to think of it in that light. I myself hope that ADUs are a standard option in all zoning across the country and only in rare cases prevented. I can see positive and negative things coming from increased housing supply in areas, i think it's fair to consider many side effects and consider ways to buffer any negative effects as well.

atwebb 5y ago

Amazon is building a bunch of workforce housing in some cities I believe (probably someone here knows a bit more). Also, queue up Sixteen Tons and some mentions of company scrip.

jfim 5y ago

> Shower thought: when will we see a company like Amazon or Costco experiment with providing an entire city, leveraging their efficient production chains and cost-cutting techniques? This was a thing a century ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Modern_Homes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Modern_Homes

Dylan16807 5y ago
Did you read that comment right? Selling pallets of materials and blueprints to individual people to make a single house is not even close to building up a wide area themselves.

fighterpilot 5y ago

> Shower thought: when will we see a company like Amazon or Costco experiment with providing an entire city Hershey did that in 1903, although it was more a means to an end rather than a product in itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey,_Pennsylvania#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey,_Pennsylvania#History

JKCalhoun 5y ago

I thought I saw a lot of corporate-branded housing (skyscrapers) in Seoul years ago but I may have been mistaken about their function.

baybal2 5y ago
http://www.koreasigns.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/apart-cluster.png http://www.koreasigns.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/apar...

cbhl 5y ago

They already did. Circa the early 1900s -- the Sears catalog offered kit homes by catalog. All the necessary parts would come, pre-cut, in a wax-sealed boxcar.