11 ms·

There are currently many "working out of the box" distros available. Mint, Solus, Manjaro, Ubuntu, KDE Neon, Fedora, MX, Elementary etc. to name a few.

headsoup 5y ago
Linux as an ecosystem is a lot further along that many people seem to either realise or give credit for. It most certainly works out of the box for most general tasks. Of course there are still limitations like a lack of some software (Photoshop...) and peripherals support, but these are becoming far more uncommon. I even find with Steam's proton implementation I can install and run most Windows games without a second thought.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  > I even find with Steam's proton implementation I can install and run most Windows games without a second thought. Which begs the question why bother with Linux then.
  - teekert 5y ago
    You mean for devs to support Linux? That is indeed an issue of some concern, because most Linux users would prefer native Linux games. But, if you mean "bother installing Linux", then get ready for the whole privacy and control discussion :)
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      OS/2 proved what happens when that route is followed. As for privacy and control discussion, when most GNU/Linux users happen to mostly consume Electron and Web Apps, install applications via curl | sudo sh, there is hardly anything to discuss, other than cargo cult of a false sense of privacy and control.
      - teekert 5y ago
        Still it's a pretty different baseline from Windows where you get ads in the start menu and a lot of telemetry is send home by default.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        A matter that depends on the distribution on the Linux side, and which Windows version on the other.
        anthk 5y ago
        Even the LTSC version is not safe enough.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Same applies to certain Linux distributions, like Android and ChromeOS, or are they Linux for promoting desktop and non-Linux for when it isn't convenient?
        dvdkon 5y ago
        There are many supported and distinct Linux distributions, not so for Windows versions. I wouldn't want to run Windows 2000 in 2021 because it's the last one without telemetry.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Indeed, distrowatch is full of them, one user distributions that hardly anyone heard of. Pity that all that security goes away the second an Electron app or Chrome is made use of.
        headsoup 5y ago
        Which is different to Windows because...? You're making silly arguments based on your own strawmen.
  - dTal 5y ago
    How does that even follow? You'd say the same if Linux couldn't run Windows games. Also, you used "begs the question" incorrectly. You mean "raises the question". Also, because Windows is a steaming pile of donkey turd that shoves ads in your OS, reboots when you're trying to get work done, resets privacy and power management settings after many of its coerced updates, and has a spazzy and inconsistent UI that offers limited customization. Also closed source.
  - headsoup 5y ago
    Because it's free for one. Second because I have so many more options and control of what my OS is. But really, reality is that Linux support for games is still caught in the cycle of too few customers to bother -> customers want better Linux support before moving over -> too few customers to bother... So I can now have all the (my) benefits of Linux and enjoy gaming that otherwise I wouldn't.
lasagnaphil 5y ago
Manjaro is currently what I'm settled on. It manages different kernel versions and graphics drivers really well, much better than Ubuntu. And the package manager is much easier to use (It's easy to create your own packages from PKGBUILDs) The XFCE version is incredibly solid, and with a few tweaks you can even get i3 to work alongside it!
- squarefoot 5y ago
  My recent experience with Manjaro has been extremely good as well, so that although I'm still using Debian for tinkering, I now put Manjaro on all other new Linux users PCs.
  - Avi0n 5y ago
    That sounds funny to me, using arch for daily driving and Debian for tinkering xD Not saying you’re wrong, I just found it amusing and slightly ironic.
    - squarefoot 5y ago
      I get your point:) Many among the users I introduced to Linux are elderly with no or little computer experience, and others just need it for the usual web+office+media applications, so having a very consistent desktop where everything works out of the box as in Manjaro beats the incredible number of packages available on Debian. This is about XFCE of course, which is what I install: close enough to Windows to be useable by all, simple enough not to balk at the first inconsistence, fast enough to run pretty much everywhere. Gnome, Mate and KDE would probably be fantastic on all Distros, but XFCE on Debian defaults to ugly and unnecessary settings (a DM ideal for small screen laptops which defaults to two panels?). I don't have experience with plain Arch, but having read only good things about it will probably try it soon. Debian has been really good for just about everything since I moved to it many moons ago, and as of today is still my daily driver on all machines, but sometimes requires constant fiddling here and there, and I'm getting old; I stopped recompiling my kernels on PCs over 10 years ago, and a system that works just out of the box is too temping:) Not to criticize Debian, which has been great almost everywhere, but it gave some problems with some niche applications, for example music: a working LinVST installation is not easy to obtain, and it is tightly tied with the running kernel, which if has _rt extensions will help with low latency but sometimes doesn't let one compile with standard Wine libraries, and when one finds a good compromise, bang! VirtualBox stops working because now its kernel module doesn't build anymore. Grrrr!:) So I may take the chance to test some other options, and Arch might be a good candidate.
wlesieutre 5y ago
As an occasional Linux user, I still get annoyed with situations like "GNOME people decided that you shouldn't want to put files on the desktop" which then spills over into supposedly user friendly distros. So it's not all sunshine and roses even when it's officially working-as-intended. Lately I've been using Mint-XFCE in a VM for some of my Linux needs and that's been much better performing than trying to virtualize the fancier desktop environments. But Pop_OS looks promising for next time I need a native linux environment.
- jjice 5y ago
  What's this about GNOME and files on the desktop? I have file on my GNOME desktop. Sometimes the ordering of them is a little weird, but I've never had an issue with it.
  - GrayShade 5y ago
    And you had to install an extension for it.
    - yissp 5y ago
      Honestly, why is that a problem? Installing shell extensions is trivial.
      - jbnorth 5y ago
        For the average non-technical user going through the trouble of installing an extension to put files on the desktop is a non-starter. If I switched my parents to Linux with GNOME they would be completely lost being unable to put files on the desktop. If people want Linux to be the next great desktop OS then things like this are a huge barrier to usability.
      - GrayShade 5y ago
        It might be trivial, but it's something that can annoy new Linux users. And they also break on every GNOME release, often enough that I kinda' gave up on my favorite GNOME extension (Dash to Dock). Not that I blame the extension developers, but e.g. the review times on extensions.gnome.org are atrocious, and the build system is fiddly enough that I can't remember what I did to install it manually 6, 12 or 18 months earlier.
beermonster 5y ago
There are lots which allow you to install proprietary drivers and or codecs at install time. Or give you the choice to enable non-free repos. Not everyone cares about free vs libre. Some people want ‘obvious’ things to just work out of the box as they would on other OSes. But of the ones above you mention that I’ve used in anger you’re absolutely right and that’s the very idea of them. To ‘just work’.
scns 5y ago
GeckoLinux building on SUSE stable or rolling. I prefer Tumbleweed though. Well tested rolling release (https://openbuildservice.org/ https://openbuildservice.org/), snapshots on update. With the opi package you can install: chrome, codecs, dotnet, msedge, msteams, plex, skype, signal, slack, teamviewer, vivaldi, vscode, vscodium, zoom and more. Brave is app i am missing so far, but having the newest version KDE and other software that required a PPA on Ubuntu is pretty nice. And it feels much snappier installed on a SATA SSD than Mint from a NVME SSD on the same machine! [edit: more info]

headsoup 5y ago

Linux as an ecosystem is a lot further along that many people seem to either realise or give credit for. It most certainly works out of the box for most general tasks. Of course there are still limitations like a lack of some software (Photoshop...) and peripherals support, but these are becoming far more uncommon. I even find with Steam's proton implementation I can install and run most Windows games without a second thought.

pjmlp 5y ago
> I even find with Steam's proton implementation I can install and run most Windows games without a second thought. Which begs the question why bother with Linux then.
- teekert 5y ago
  You mean for devs to support Linux? That is indeed an issue of some concern, because most Linux users would prefer native Linux games. But, if you mean "bother installing Linux", then get ready for the whole privacy and control discussion :)
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    OS/2 proved what happens when that route is followed. As for privacy and control discussion, when most GNU/Linux users happen to mostly consume Electron and Web Apps, install applications via curl | sudo sh, there is hardly anything to discuss, other than cargo cult of a false sense of privacy and control.
    - teekert 5y ago
      Still it's a pretty different baseline from Windows where you get ads in the start menu and a lot of telemetry is send home by default.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        A matter that depends on the distribution on the Linux side, and which Windows version on the other.
        anthk 5y ago
        Even the LTSC version is not safe enough.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Same applies to certain Linux distributions, like Android and ChromeOS, or are they Linux for promoting desktop and non-Linux for when it isn't convenient?
        dvdkon 5y ago
        There are many supported and distinct Linux distributions, not so for Windows versions. I wouldn't want to run Windows 2000 in 2021 because it's the last one without telemetry.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Indeed, distrowatch is full of them, one user distributions that hardly anyone heard of. Pity that all that security goes away the second an Electron app or Chrome is made use of.
        headsoup 5y ago
        Which is different to Windows because...? You're making silly arguments based on your own strawmen.
- dTal 5y ago
  How does that even follow? You'd say the same if Linux couldn't run Windows games. Also, you used "begs the question" incorrectly. You mean "raises the question". Also, because Windows is a steaming pile of donkey turd that shoves ads in your OS, reboots when you're trying to get work done, resets privacy and power management settings after many of its coerced updates, and has a spazzy and inconsistent UI that offers limited customization. Also closed source.
- headsoup 5y ago
  Because it's free for one. Second because I have so many more options and control of what my OS is. But really, reality is that Linux support for games is still caught in the cycle of too few customers to bother -> customers want better Linux support before moving over -> too few customers to bother... So I can now have all the (my) benefits of Linux and enjoy gaming that otherwise I wouldn't.

lasagnaphil 5y ago

Manjaro is currently what I'm settled on. It manages different kernel versions and graphics drivers really well, much better than Ubuntu. And the package manager is much easier to use (It's easy to create your own packages from PKGBUILDs) The XFCE version is incredibly solid, and with a few tweaks you can even get i3 to work alongside it!

squarefoot 5y ago
My recent experience with Manjaro has been extremely good as well, so that although I'm still using Debian for tinkering, I now put Manjaro on all other new Linux users PCs.
- Avi0n 5y ago
  That sounds funny to me, using arch for daily driving and Debian for tinkering xD Not saying you’re wrong, I just found it amusing and slightly ironic.
  - squarefoot 5y ago
    I get your point:) Many among the users I introduced to Linux are elderly with no or little computer experience, and others just need it for the usual web+office+media applications, so having a very consistent desktop where everything works out of the box as in Manjaro beats the incredible number of packages available on Debian. This is about XFCE of course, which is what I install: close enough to Windows to be useable by all, simple enough not to balk at the first inconsistence, fast enough to run pretty much everywhere. Gnome, Mate and KDE would probably be fantastic on all Distros, but XFCE on Debian defaults to ugly and unnecessary settings (a DM ideal for small screen laptops which defaults to two panels?). I don't have experience with plain Arch, but having read only good things about it will probably try it soon. Debian has been really good for just about everything since I moved to it many moons ago, and as of today is still my daily driver on all machines, but sometimes requires constant fiddling here and there, and I'm getting old; I stopped recompiling my kernels on PCs over 10 years ago, and a system that works just out of the box is too temping:) Not to criticize Debian, which has been great almost everywhere, but it gave some problems with some niche applications, for example music: a working LinVST installation is not easy to obtain, and it is tightly tied with the running kernel, which if has _rt extensions will help with low latency but sometimes doesn't let one compile with standard Wine libraries, and when one finds a good compromise, bang! VirtualBox stops working because now its kernel module doesn't build anymore. Grrrr!:) So I may take the chance to test some other options, and Arch might be a good candidate.

wlesieutre 5y ago

As an occasional Linux user, I still get annoyed with situations like "GNOME people decided that you shouldn't want to put files on the desktop" which then spills over into supposedly user friendly distros. So it's not all sunshine and roses even when it's officially working-as-intended. Lately I've been using Mint-XFCE in a VM for some of my Linux needs and that's been much better performing than trying to virtualize the fancier desktop environments. But Pop_OS looks promising for next time I need a native linux environment.

jjice 5y ago
What's this about GNOME and files on the desktop? I have file on my GNOME desktop. Sometimes the ordering of them is a little weird, but I've never had an issue with it.
- GrayShade 5y ago
  And you had to install an extension for it.
  - yissp 5y ago
    Honestly, why is that a problem? Installing shell extensions is trivial.
    - jbnorth 5y ago
      For the average non-technical user going through the trouble of installing an extension to put files on the desktop is a non-starter. If I switched my parents to Linux with GNOME they would be completely lost being unable to put files on the desktop. If people want Linux to be the next great desktop OS then things like this are a huge barrier to usability.
    - GrayShade 5y ago
      It might be trivial, but it's something that can annoy new Linux users. And they also break on every GNOME release, often enough that I kinda' gave up on my favorite GNOME extension (Dash to Dock). Not that I blame the extension developers, but e.g. the review times on extensions.gnome.org are atrocious, and the build system is fiddly enough that I can't remember what I did to install it manually 6, 12 or 18 months earlier.

beermonster 5y ago

There are lots which allow you to install proprietary drivers and or codecs at install time. Or give you the choice to enable non-free repos. Not everyone cares about free vs libre. Some people want ‘obvious’ things to just work out of the box as they would on other OSes. But of the ones above you mention that I’ve used in anger you’re absolutely right and that’s the very idea of them. To ‘just work’.

scns 5y ago

GeckoLinux building on SUSE stable or rolling. I prefer Tumbleweed though. Well tested rolling release (https://openbuildservice.org/ https://openbuildservice.org/), snapshots on update. With the opi package you can install: chrome, codecs, dotnet, msedge, msteams, plex, skype, signal, slack, teamviewer, vivaldi, vscode, vscodium, zoom and more. Brave is app i am missing so far, but having the newest version KDE and other software that required a PPA on Ubuntu is pretty nice. And it feels much snappier installed on a SATA SSD than Mint from a NVME SSD on the same machine! [edit: more info]