3 ms·

Why do roads, rail, and infrastructure cost so much to build in the US?

18 points by jseliger 5y ago

n0mad01 5y ago
i think this topic was covered here not so long ago and the short, suggested explanation was, as far as i can remember, corruption.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  "corruption and legally sanctioned corruption masquerading as legitimate expenditures" would probably be a better TL;DR but yeah, corruption is it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- m0llusk 5y ago
  This article is better than most and breaks down how different factors like politics and NIMBY influence, both of which can be considered corruption or linked to corruption, play a role in this.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    I heard the expression "vetocracy" not a long time ago. The set of players that can say "no" to any project is not exactly small.
gamblor956 5y ago
TLDR: NIMBYs suing to block projects, delaying the work. Simple inflation in materials, wages, property values, etc., during the legal battles drive up the ultimate costs. Also, America builds infrastructure largely as 1-off projects, rather than continuously, so there are startup and shutdown costs added on. IOW...bureaucracy would actually reduce costs. Corruption is a drop in the bucket compared to these other items.
- imtringued 5y ago
  1-off projects is a big problem with nuclear. You build them for 50+ years. People retire and now you have no clue how they built them that cheap.
egberts1 5y ago
Corruption? Probably but not as much as project (mis)management. Send a couple of those guys to Japan and have them watch roads being repaved at 11 miles per day on a same stretch. Maybe they can learn a few thing or two.
truffdog 5y ago
Alon Levy's blog is a gold mine for more in-depth looks at various facets of this. https://pedestrianobservations.com/2021/01/15/friends-dont-let-friends-build-ppps/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2021/01/15/friends-dont-l... comes to mind as a touchstone gripe about institutions and projects
jjk166 5y ago
Here in America we put the communities who will be most directly affected by these projects in charge of the projects. It seems at first like a sensible and democratic idea, we don't want some distant government shoving decisions down our throats. Unfortunately these local governments lack the expertise and manpower to effectively manage such large projects, and they are at the mercy of small but vocal groups who don't care about the long term success of their communities. It is incredibly inefficient for every municipality to create and maintain the bureaucratic infrastructure necessary to administrate projects on this scale when they might actually use it once every few decades, and it is unreasonable to expect the various parties involved to forego their personal interests and biases and look at the situation objectively. It would make much more sense for the local population just to be consulted on what the major requirements for the project are, and for a state, regional, or federal organization to take those requirements and figure out a way to get them done. At that larger level, you'll have enough projects going on that you can justify a large staff of experts, the wheel won't have to be reinvented time and time again, and decisions will be made based on well developed best practices by people who don't have obvious conflicts of interest.
alessandroetc 5y ago
Is it just me or does the author never actually answer the question in the title? Also, does anyone know if the pricing graph accounts for inflation?

18 points by jseliger 5y ago

i think this topic was covered here not so long ago and the short, suggested explanation was, as far as i can remember, corruption.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
"corruption and legally sanctioned corruption masquerading as legitimate expenditures" would probably be a better TL;DR but yeah, corruption is it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
m0llusk 5y ago
This article is better than most and breaks down how different factors like politics and NIMBY influence, both of which can be considered corruption or linked to corruption, play a role in this.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  I heard the expression "vetocracy" not a long time ago. The set of players that can say "no" to any project is not exactly small.

gamblor956 5y ago

TLDR: NIMBYs suing to block projects, delaying the work. Simple inflation in materials, wages, property values, etc., during the legal battles drive up the ultimate costs. Also, America builds infrastructure largely as 1-off projects, rather than continuously, so there are startup and shutdown costs added on. IOW...bureaucracy would actually reduce costs. Corruption is a drop in the bucket compared to these other items.

imtringued 5y ago
1-off projects is a big problem with nuclear. You build them for 50+ years. People retire and now you have no clue how they built them that cheap.

egberts1 5y ago

Corruption? Probably but not as much as project (mis)management. Send a couple of those guys to Japan and have them watch roads being repaved at 11 miles per day on a same stretch. Maybe they can learn a few thing or two.

truffdog 5y ago

Alon Levy's blog is a gold mine for more in-depth looks at various facets of this. https://pedestrianobservations.com/2021/01/15/friends-dont-let-friends-build-ppps/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2021/01/15/friends-dont-l... comes to mind as a touchstone gripe about institutions and projects

jjk166 5y ago

Here in America we put the communities who will be most directly affected by these projects in charge of the projects. It seems at first like a sensible and democratic idea, we don't want some distant government shoving decisions down our throats. Unfortunately these local governments lack the expertise and manpower to effectively manage such large projects, and they are at the mercy of small but vocal groups who don't care about the long term success of their communities. It is incredibly inefficient for every municipality to create and maintain the bureaucratic infrastructure necessary to administrate projects on this scale when they might actually use it once every few decades, and it is unreasonable to expect the various parties involved to forego their personal interests and biases and look at the situation objectively. It would make much more sense for the local population just to be consulted on what the major requirements for the project are, and for a state, regional, or federal organization to take those requirements and figure out a way to get them done. At that larger level, you'll have enough projects going on that you can justify a large staff of experts, the wheel won't have to be reinvented time and time again, and decisions will be made based on well developed best practices by people who don't have obvious conflicts of interest.

alessandroetc 5y ago

Is it just me or does the author never actually answer the question in the title? Also, does anyone know if the pricing graph accounts for inflation?