8 ms·

It does sound a bit weird. How long do they last? In UK you would expect a house to remain standing for 80-150 years. Maybe more.

echelon 5y ago
Wooden homes last just as long. There are many wooden homes of that age, and they have a ton of character and command steep prices.
capitainenemo 5y ago
My current home is a dirt cheap one built during the explosion in housing post world war II. It's wood on top of poured concrete slabs for a foundation (yes, ok, some concrete - maybe something else could have been used? brick?). It has no structural issues. (it has issues due to stupid design decisions from stamping out homes at that time, but none related to the wood). It is now 60 years old. I imagine it will be standing for a long time to come.
- calvinmorrison 5y ago
  Cinderblock foundations aren't uncommon, brick or stone and mortar. And lots of basements were packed eaeth, a whole nother level of 'unfinished'
RosanaAnaDana 5y ago
I live in a 100 year old wooden house. Its got some character due to modifications and its era (1920's). But its been well maintained and there is no apparent reason it wouldn't survive another 100 years.
- waynesonfire 5y ago
  same. and it was built so long ago that the 2x4s used in it's construction are actually 2"x4", and probably made from old growth.
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    A lot of codes are directly or indirectly moving to whatever size a 2x6 is because of increased insulation requirements. For exterior walls anyway.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      The codes are moving back to 2x4 walls. Since the 1970s 2x6 started becoming common, but that reversed when someone realized you can put 2 inches of foam outside the 2x4, have the same wall thickness (meaning common doors/windows fit), and there is no break in the wall insulation. The wood itself in a board is not great insulation, so the foam around the whole house even while it seems to offer the same r value offers more. (you can also get foam with r values much better than wood, I'm not aware of code requiring that, but some builders offer it as an upgrade). Note that this foam is foil faced meaning it insulates against radiation energy as well as conduction or convection.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        That must be regional. I live in the PNW, and it's pretty temperate here (the last few days notwithstanding...). House construction is still 100% 2x6 for exterior (and interior load-supporting) walls. Most houses are not being built with foam on the outside. I've heard of that happening where it's legitimately cold, though.
        bluGill 5y ago
        I'm sure it is regional. Close climates need more insulation than warmer ones. I've seen variations of this in El Paso (only 1 in foam) for high end housing where the cooling advantages can be sold. I doubt interior load supporting walls are 2x6. Often there are internal 2x6 walls, but that is to allow extra space for plumbing - 2x4 is plenty strong enough for load bearing in most houses, but toilet drains/vents don't really fit.
        rootusrootus 5y ago
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > I live in a 100 year old wooden house I don’t understand if people posting this realise what a low bar this is? Brick and stone houses last a thousand years.
zdragnar 5y ago
I live near one of a state's first cities in the Midwest. Many of the original buildings, brick and wood alike, are still standing. Those are between 140 and 180 years old. Many (brick and wood alike) were destroyed by fires and floods. All in all, the lifespan of wooden structures is more than adequate, and significantly cheaper.
- handrous 5y ago
  There are whole neighborhoods of 120+ year old wooden houses in the US. If they're cared for they look great. If they're not, they look like shit but are still standing and basically fine as long as water's been kept out (no long-term roof leaks). They're largely made of WTF-good timber by modern standards, but worse construction in other ways (balloon framing is common, for instance, and fire protection is otherwise poor as well). Further, they're designed to exist without modern heating and cooling, and many still don't have those (or they don't work very well). Yet they stand, and often still have perfectly-aligned original wooden trim work, despite being subject to swings in internal temperature and humidity that'd ruin a modern house in a hurry (modern ones are too air-tight to survive that, aren't built with any care to wood grain direction, and use much lower-quality timber throughout, including for trim, though they may benefit from extensive use of dimensionally-stable plywood).
  - cp9 5y ago
    I live in one of those neighborhoods and the thing that kills our houses (aside from leaking roofs) is poor foundations. I've literally never heard of one of these houses falling over because of a structural issue with the actual timber it's built from. It's either that the wood has rotten because of roofing issues or (more likely) the rubble stone foundations fell apart edit: and even if some of the wood has rotten you can almost always just replace or sister up that piece and be absolutely fine.
    - Gibbon1 5y ago
      There is a contractor in LA that posts picture of houses they've inspected. https://imgur.com/user/AlphaStructural https://imgur.com/user/AlphaStructural What's interesting to me is you have Europeans marveling at houses built of flimsy wood instead of strong brick and concrete. Yet except for occasional water and termite damage what's failing in these houses is the concrete and brick foundations. Not the wood framing.
michaelt 5y ago
Well, some American states are extremely hot and dry by UK standards - meaning issues like rot and rust are less of a problem. And Americans build a lot of detached single-storey houses [1], which mitigates some of the disadvantage of wood: Noisy neighbours? You've got a six-foot-plus air gap between your houses. Fire risk? Escape is trivial when every room has a ground floor window. Rain getting onto the wooden walls? Much reduced by a porch stretching around the entire building. Needs regular repainting? Easy when it's a single-storey building. Wood is also substantially cheaper in the US than in the UK - so while it might not look like a cheap material from the prices at British wood stockists, Americans who call it a cheap way of building aren't paying those prices! [1] https://goo.gl/maps/de1ZCXtpjS49sSHB7 https://goo.gl/maps/de1ZCXtpjS49sSHB7
- kube-system 5y ago
  6 foot between detached single family homes only in the densest old city neighborhoods. The legal minimum in most places is now 10. These would be properties that many Americans describe as “right up my neighbors ass”. Your average home in the burbs is going to have 30+ feet between them, especially in the hot dry (read: developed post AC) areas of the US you’re talking about. > Rain getting onto the wooden walls? Needs regular repainting? Most “wooden” US homes do not have wood siding. Vinyl is extremely common, and most homes that predate vinyl have had vinyl installed because it eliminates the maintenance associated with painted wood. Mine is decorative masonry. (And I wish I had vinyl)
  - genericone 5y ago
    And in SF and Daly City, and other 'old affordable neighborhoods', no detachment at all.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    > Most “wooden” US homes do not have wood siding. Vinyl is extremely common, and most homes that predate vinyl have had vinyl installed because it eliminates the maintenance associated with painted wood. Mine is decorative masonry. (And I wish I had vinyl) I thought all new homes in the past decade or so came with cement fiber siding like Hardibacker, Durock, or Wonderboard. I have not seen new construction with vinyl siding in a long time (west of Rockies).
anonAndOn 5y ago
My last one was built in 1895. I really miss the 10 foot ceilings. The increased air space + transom windows were a fantastic passive cooling system.
- handrous 5y ago
  Old houses are amazing if you need to live in them without modern heating and cooling. They're built to work about as well as possible, under those circumstances. They suck if you want to retrofit them to have modern heating and cooling. The high ceilings, giant windows on all sides, large open attics (vital for temp control without AC!), and generally poor sealing (=great if you need them to survive temp and humidity changes throughout the year, and not turn into a giant mold farm like a modern house would) all work against you.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I looked at a house in Boston that was built in the 1700s, and it had the opposite problem. Ceilings were like 6.5 feet, felt claustrophobic. Where I live now, ceiling heights are going back up. 10 years ago it was common to have 9 foot ceilings on the first floor, 8 foot on the second. Now it's common to have 9 foot on the second floor as well. And there are a not-insignificant number of houses being built with 10 foot ceilings.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    In an air conditioned house, I do not see the purpose of 9ft and 10ft ceilings other than vanity. It just results in more cost to condition air that is above your head. I would rather spend less on my utility bills, and conserve the energy.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      I don't feel too strongly about it, though on balance I like the open feel to 9 foot ceilings. It seems to be standardized on most new houses these days, so unless I have another house built I don't expect to be able to make a choice.
CalRobert 5y ago
The UK has wattle and daub wood frame houses that are 500 years old, too. The hatred for wood frame houses in the UK and Ireland is a strange thing, especially considering the pyrite scandal a few years back, the mica one now, and the hideous carbon footprint of concrete. There are a few people fighting this, https://gracedesign.ie/ https://gracedesign.ie/ makes stunning beautiful house frames, and I'm having my own house built in wood right now. By coincidence, so are the people in the field next to me. But there's decades of prejudice to overcome.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  The hatred for wood frame houses in the UK and Ireland is a strange thing It's not when you consider that we cut down most of our trees.
  - CalRobert 5y ago
    Well, cut down, and grazed the rest to oblivion to turn the islands in to meat factories.
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    13.1% of UK as woodland in 2018; 4.7% in 1905. Not too shabby! https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools-and-resources/statistics/forestry-statistics/forestry-statistics-2018/woodland-areas-and-planting/woodland-area/area-of-woodland-changes-over-time/ https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools-and-resources/statis...
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  Door and window frames are the only wooden element in most houses. You can instantly see if they have never been replaced, and after 70 - 80 years they look quite old. Now imagine the whole house looking like that.
  - CalRobert 5y ago
    To each their own; I live in a town full of cracked, heavily-stained plastered and pebble dashed block buildings that look pretty terrible.
rootusrootus 5y ago
My mom lives in a 110 year old house in one of the wettest regions of the United States. The walls are a bit thin by current standards, just 2x4 even though it's two stories with a basement, but it's holding up fine. Rot has never been a problem. She just keeps up on the routine maintenance -- painting about every 10 years, roof shingles every 25 years. It would still be fine 100 years from now, I expect, though I'm certain that when she passes someone will buy the house, gut it, modernize the wiring, plumbing, and insulation, and then rebuild the interior to look as original as possible. Very popular around this area.

echelon 5y ago

Wooden homes last just as long. There are many wooden homes of that age, and they have a ton of character and command steep prices.

capitainenemo 5y ago

My current home is a dirt cheap one built during the explosion in housing post world war II. It's wood on top of poured concrete slabs for a foundation (yes, ok, some concrete - maybe something else could have been used? brick?). It has no structural issues. (it has issues due to stupid design decisions from stamping out homes at that time, but none related to the wood). It is now 60 years old. I imagine it will be standing for a long time to come.

calvinmorrison 5y ago
Cinderblock foundations aren't uncommon, brick or stone and mortar. And lots of basements were packed eaeth, a whole nother level of 'unfinished'

RosanaAnaDana 5y ago

I live in a 100 year old wooden house. Its got some character due to modifications and its era (1920's). But its been well maintained and there is no apparent reason it wouldn't survive another 100 years.

waynesonfire 5y ago
same. and it was built so long ago that the 2x4s used in it's construction are actually 2"x4", and probably made from old growth.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  A lot of codes are directly or indirectly moving to whatever size a 2x6 is because of increased insulation requirements. For exterior walls anyway.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    The codes are moving back to 2x4 walls. Since the 1970s 2x6 started becoming common, but that reversed when someone realized you can put 2 inches of foam outside the 2x4, have the same wall thickness (meaning common doors/windows fit), and there is no break in the wall insulation. The wood itself in a board is not great insulation, so the foam around the whole house even while it seems to offer the same r value offers more. (you can also get foam with r values much better than wood, I'm not aware of code requiring that, but some builders offer it as an upgrade). Note that this foam is foil faced meaning it insulates against radiation energy as well as conduction or convection.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      That must be regional. I live in the PNW, and it's pretty temperate here (the last few days notwithstanding...). House construction is still 100% 2x6 for exterior (and interior load-supporting) walls. Most houses are not being built with foam on the outside. I've heard of that happening where it's legitimately cold, though.
      - bluGill 5y ago
        I'm sure it is regional. Close climates need more insulation than warmer ones. I've seen variations of this in El Paso (only 1 in foam) for high end housing where the cooling advantages can be sold. I doubt interior load supporting walls are 2x6. Often there are internal 2x6 walls, but that is to allow extra space for plumbing - 2x4 is plenty strong enough for load bearing in most houses, but toilet drains/vents don't really fit.
        rootusrootus 5y ago
chrisseaton 5y ago
> I live in a 100 year old wooden house I don’t understand if people posting this realise what a low bar this is? Brick and stone houses last a thousand years.

zdragnar 5y ago

I live near one of a state's first cities in the Midwest. Many of the original buildings, brick and wood alike, are still standing. Those are between 140 and 180 years old. Many (brick and wood alike) were destroyed by fires and floods. All in all, the lifespan of wooden structures is more than adequate, and significantly cheaper.

handrous 5y ago
There are whole neighborhoods of 120+ year old wooden houses in the US. If they're cared for they look great. If they're not, they look like shit but are still standing and basically fine as long as water's been kept out (no long-term roof leaks). They're largely made of WTF-good timber by modern standards, but worse construction in other ways (balloon framing is common, for instance, and fire protection is otherwise poor as well). Further, they're designed to exist without modern heating and cooling, and many still don't have those (or they don't work very well). Yet they stand, and often still have perfectly-aligned original wooden trim work, despite being subject to swings in internal temperature and humidity that'd ruin a modern house in a hurry (modern ones are too air-tight to survive that, aren't built with any care to wood grain direction, and use much lower-quality timber throughout, including for trim, though they may benefit from extensive use of dimensionally-stable plywood).
- cp9 5y ago
  I live in one of those neighborhoods and the thing that kills our houses (aside from leaking roofs) is poor foundations. I've literally never heard of one of these houses falling over because of a structural issue with the actual timber it's built from. It's either that the wood has rotten because of roofing issues or (more likely) the rubble stone foundations fell apart edit: and even if some of the wood has rotten you can almost always just replace or sister up that piece and be absolutely fine.
  - Gibbon1 5y ago
    There is a contractor in LA that posts picture of houses they've inspected. https://imgur.com/user/AlphaStructural https://imgur.com/user/AlphaStructural What's interesting to me is you have Europeans marveling at houses built of flimsy wood instead of strong brick and concrete. Yet except for occasional water and termite damage what's failing in these houses is the concrete and brick foundations. Not the wood framing.

michaelt 5y ago

Well, some American states are extremely hot and dry by UK standards - meaning issues like rot and rust are less of a problem. And Americans build a lot of detached single-storey houses [1], which mitigates some of the disadvantage of wood: Noisy neighbours? You've got a six-foot-plus air gap between your houses. Fire risk? Escape is trivial when every room has a ground floor window. Rain getting onto the wooden walls? Much reduced by a porch stretching around the entire building. Needs regular repainting? Easy when it's a single-storey building. Wood is also substantially cheaper in the US than in the UK - so while it might not look like a cheap material from the prices at British wood stockists, Americans who call it a cheap way of building aren't paying those prices! [1] https://goo.gl/maps/de1ZCXtpjS49sSHB7 https://goo.gl/maps/de1ZCXtpjS49sSHB7

kube-system 5y ago
6 foot between detached single family homes only in the densest old city neighborhoods. The legal minimum in most places is now 10. These would be properties that many Americans describe as “right up my neighbors ass”. Your average home in the burbs is going to have 30+ feet between them, especially in the hot dry (read: developed post AC) areas of the US you’re talking about. > Rain getting onto the wooden walls? Needs regular repainting? Most “wooden” US homes do not have wood siding. Vinyl is extremely common, and most homes that predate vinyl have had vinyl installed because it eliminates the maintenance associated with painted wood. Mine is decorative masonry. (And I wish I had vinyl)
- genericone 5y ago
  And in SF and Daly City, and other 'old affordable neighborhoods', no detachment at all.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > Most “wooden” US homes do not have wood siding. Vinyl is extremely common, and most homes that predate vinyl have had vinyl installed because it eliminates the maintenance associated with painted wood. Mine is decorative masonry. (And I wish I had vinyl) I thought all new homes in the past decade or so came with cement fiber siding like Hardibacker, Durock, or Wonderboard. I have not seen new construction with vinyl siding in a long time (west of Rockies).

anonAndOn 5y ago

My last one was built in 1895. I really miss the 10 foot ceilings. The increased air space + transom windows were a fantastic passive cooling system.

handrous 5y ago
Old houses are amazing if you need to live in them without modern heating and cooling. They're built to work about as well as possible, under those circumstances. They suck if you want to retrofit them to have modern heating and cooling. The high ceilings, giant windows on all sides, large open attics (vital for temp control without AC!), and generally poor sealing (=great if you need them to survive temp and humidity changes throughout the year, and not turn into a giant mold farm like a modern house would) all work against you.
rootusrootus 5y ago
I looked at a house in Boston that was built in the 1700s, and it had the opposite problem. Ceilings were like 6.5 feet, felt claustrophobic. Where I live now, ceiling heights are going back up. 10 years ago it was common to have 9 foot ceilings on the first floor, 8 foot on the second. Now it's common to have 9 foot on the second floor as well. And there are a not-insignificant number of houses being built with 10 foot ceilings.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  In an air conditioned house, I do not see the purpose of 9ft and 10ft ceilings other than vanity. It just results in more cost to condition air that is above your head. I would rather spend less on my utility bills, and conserve the energy.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    I don't feel too strongly about it, though on balance I like the open feel to 9 foot ceilings. It seems to be standardized on most new houses these days, so unless I have another house built I don't expect to be able to make a choice.

CalRobert 5y ago

The UK has wattle and daub wood frame houses that are 500 years old, too. The hatred for wood frame houses in the UK and Ireland is a strange thing, especially considering the pyrite scandal a few years back, the mica one now, and the hideous carbon footprint of concrete. There are a few people fighting this, https://gracedesign.ie/ https://gracedesign.ie/ makes stunning beautiful house frames, and I'm having my own house built in wood right now. By coincidence, so are the people in the field next to me. But there's decades of prejudice to overcome.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
The hatred for wood frame houses in the UK and Ireland is a strange thing It's not when you consider that we cut down most of our trees.
- CalRobert 5y ago
  Well, cut down, and grazed the rest to oblivion to turn the islands in to meat factories.
- robertlagrant 5y ago
  13.1% of UK as woodland in 2018; 4.7% in 1905. Not too shabby! https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools-and-resources/statistics/forestry-statistics/forestry-statistics-2018/woodland-areas-and-planting/woodland-area/area-of-woodland-changes-over-time/ https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools-and-resources/statis...
FridayoLeary 5y ago
Door and window frames are the only wooden element in most houses. You can instantly see if they have never been replaced, and after 70 - 80 years they look quite old. Now imagine the whole house looking like that.
- CalRobert 5y ago
  To each their own; I live in a town full of cracked, heavily-stained plastered and pebble dashed block buildings that look pretty terrible.

rootusrootus 5y ago

My mom lives in a 110 year old house in one of the wettest regions of the United States. The walls are a bit thin by current standards, just 2x4 even though it's two stories with a basement, but it's holding up fine. Rot has never been a problem. She just keeps up on the routine maintenance -- painting about every 10 years, roof shingles every 25 years. It would still be fine 100 years from now, I expect, though I'm certain that when she passes someone will buy the house, gut it, modernize the wiring, plumbing, and insulation, and then rebuild the interior to look as original as possible. Very popular around this area.