10 ms·

That's ironic, since wood construction has a much longer history than reinforced concrete, and I'm not by any means convinced that the latter will be as durable

That's ironic, since wood construction has a much longer history than reinforced concrete, and I'm not by any means convinced that the latter will be as durable.

throw1234651234 5y ago
Reinforced concrete buildings have better thermal and sound isolation. They are obviously more resistant to damage. Proof of this are Khruschev-era Soviet apartment blocks that are standing today. A condo I lived in had brick walls between neighbors - definitely a huge plus compared to drywall in apartments where the neighbors can hear you turning on the tv at whisper sound levels.
- greesil 5y ago
  The last building I lived in was reinforced concrete. It was great, I definitely couldn't hear the neighbors, except I could still hear the people upstairs walking around in what sounded like tap shoes at 2am on Saturday nights. Some people just have more fun than me.
- baybal2 5y ago
  > Khruschev-era Soviet apartment They were terrible, yet better than a wooden house. As somebody who spent few years of my childhood in Russia, I find it bizarre that today construction quality actually went lower than that.
- timeon 5y ago
  > Reinforced concrete buildings have better thermal and sound isolation. Thermal conductivity of materials are telling different story [1]. Polystyrene or mineral wool are good for insulation because they have low thermal conductivity 0.032 - 0.038 W/mK (these values are not exact obviously, you can also find mineral wool with values 0.033 not 0.038 but that is just detail). Timber here is 0.14 - 0.17 W/mK. We can find also concrete with 0.16 which is pretty low for concrete but unfortunately that is just aerated concrete which is different from more dense - reinforced one. So for example in my home country (in central/eastern Europe) where we have Soviet apartment blocks and decide to insulate them we need to cover them with 30cm thick layer of mineral wool or polystyrene foam in order to meet current standards for thermal resistance. Most of them are already insulated at least decade now (unfortunately with just 10-20cm thin layer). [1] https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Thermal_conductivity https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Thermal_conductivi...
Retric 5y ago
Reinforced concrete structures are known to have a relatively short lifespan. Wood easily lasts several times as long with proper care.
- neals 5y ago
  Is there no proper care for concrete though?
  - Retric 5y ago
    Keeping it dry and sealing large cracks helps, but reinforced concrete breaks down on contact with air so not really. Best option would actually be keeping it in a vacuum, but that’s just not cost effective.
  - bilbo0s 5y ago
    If concrete is reinforced, even with proper care, physics will get you eventually. It'll happen faster if you're near a coast. It'll take longer if you're inland. But eventually, the inevitable will happen. Our reinforced concrete structures will never last as long as, say, the Pyramids. Wood will last longer [than reinforced concrete], again, with proper care. But in the end, entropy wins against wood as well. [And again, wood will never outlast the Pyramids]. In civil engineering, there really is no such thing as a free lunch. All materials come with drawbacks. EDIT: To clarify wording.
    - maayank 5y ago
      What timespans are we talking about here? 30 years until reinforced concrete starts failing? 100?
      - ska 5y ago
        As usual "it depends". Basically rust is the problem, so if you are scrupulous on upkeep (read, spend money) it will last much longer than if not. How long is also enviroment dependents (temperature swings, salt air, emiisions etc. can make it worse)
mcguire 5y ago
I think the major advantage wood construction has over concrete is that individual wood elements are replaceable. It would be hard to ship-of-Theseus a reinforced concrete structure.
- Arrath 5y ago
  Plain reinforced concrete is fine to repair and work with. Very basic: Erect temporary supports around the area if its load-bearing, saw-cut/hammer out the working area, splice and retie any reinforcement, prepare the existing concrete surface for a fresh pour, pour and cure. Certainly more involved and time consuming than, say, replacing some siding or moving a wall inside a stick built house but its all doable. Pre/Post stressed components? Yeah good luck.
lmilcin 5y ago
Concrete is very durable. It is reinforcement that rusts and causes thermally induced stress as steel expand and contracts at different rate than concrete.
contravariant 5y ago
I know a couple of examples of millenia old concrete. Can't say the same for wooden buildings.

That's ironic, since wood construction has a much longer history than reinforced concrete, and I'm not by any means convinced that the latter will be as durable.

throw1234651234 5y ago

Reinforced concrete buildings have better thermal and sound isolation. They are obviously more resistant to damage. Proof of this are Khruschev-era Soviet apartment blocks that are standing today. A condo I lived in had brick walls between neighbors - definitely a huge plus compared to drywall in apartments where the neighbors can hear you turning on the tv at whisper sound levels.

greesil 5y ago
The last building I lived in was reinforced concrete. It was great, I definitely couldn't hear the neighbors, except I could still hear the people upstairs walking around in what sounded like tap shoes at 2am on Saturday nights. Some people just have more fun than me.
baybal2 5y ago
> Khruschev-era Soviet apartment They were terrible, yet better than a wooden house. As somebody who spent few years of my childhood in Russia, I find it bizarre that today construction quality actually went lower than that.
timeon 5y ago
> Reinforced concrete buildings have better thermal and sound isolation. Thermal conductivity of materials are telling different story [1]. Polystyrene or mineral wool are good for insulation because they have low thermal conductivity 0.032 - 0.038 W/mK (these values are not exact obviously, you can also find mineral wool with values 0.033 not 0.038 but that is just detail). Timber here is 0.14 - 0.17 W/mK. We can find also concrete with 0.16 which is pretty low for concrete but unfortunately that is just aerated concrete which is different from more dense - reinforced one. So for example in my home country (in central/eastern Europe) where we have Soviet apartment blocks and decide to insulate them we need to cover them with 30cm thick layer of mineral wool or polystyrene foam in order to meet current standards for thermal resistance. Most of them are already insulated at least decade now (unfortunately with just 10-20cm thin layer). [1] https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Thermal_conductivity https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Thermal_conductivi...

Retric 5y ago

Reinforced concrete structures are known to have a relatively short lifespan. Wood easily lasts several times as long with proper care.

neals 5y ago
Is there no proper care for concrete though?
- Retric 5y ago
  Keeping it dry and sealing large cracks helps, but reinforced concrete breaks down on contact with air so not really. Best option would actually be keeping it in a vacuum, but that’s just not cost effective.
- bilbo0s 5y ago
  If concrete is reinforced, even with proper care, physics will get you eventually. It'll happen faster if you're near a coast. It'll take longer if you're inland. But eventually, the inevitable will happen. Our reinforced concrete structures will never last as long as, say, the Pyramids. Wood will last longer [than reinforced concrete], again, with proper care. But in the end, entropy wins against wood as well. [And again, wood will never outlast the Pyramids]. In civil engineering, there really is no such thing as a free lunch. All materials come with drawbacks. EDIT: To clarify wording.
  - maayank 5y ago
    What timespans are we talking about here? 30 years until reinforced concrete starts failing? 100?
    - ska 5y ago
      As usual "it depends". Basically rust is the problem, so if you are scrupulous on upkeep (read, spend money) it will last much longer than if not. How long is also enviroment dependents (temperature swings, salt air, emiisions etc. can make it worse)

mcguire 5y ago

I think the major advantage wood construction has over concrete is that individual wood elements are replaceable. It would be hard to ship-of-Theseus a reinforced concrete structure.

Arrath 5y ago
Plain reinforced concrete is fine to repair and work with. Very basic: Erect temporary supports around the area if its load-bearing, saw-cut/hammer out the working area, splice and retie any reinforcement, prepare the existing concrete surface for a fresh pour, pour and cure. Certainly more involved and time consuming than, say, replacing some siding or moving a wall inside a stick built house but its all doable. Pre/Post stressed components? Yeah good luck.

lmilcin 5y ago

Concrete is very durable. It is reinforcement that rusts and causes thermally induced stress as steel expand and contracts at different rate than concrete.

contravariant 5y ago

I know a couple of examples of millenia old concrete. Can't say the same for wooden buildings.