9 ms·

On the general topic of "technology in restaurants", I've noticed an increasing number of restaurants where the waitstaff uses phones/tablets with some kind of

On the general topic of "technology in restaurants", I've noticed an increasing number of restaurants where the waitstaff uses phones/tablets with some kind of specialized app. This happens often: we start telling them our order, and they have to say "wait a sec.... (taps phone for several seconds) okay what was that?". The "UX" as a patron is pretty bad compared to the waitstaff just whipping out a notepad and scribbling as we order, or better yet memorizing the orders.

syshum 5y ago
Several of the large chains already have pay at table kiosk's I have always wondered why they just do not have order at table as well... I am waiting for the first restaurant that only has Cooks and Food Runners with no traditional waitstaff... This will likely coincide with the removal of tipping as a custom in the US. We will move to kiosk ordering, press a button to get drink refills, pay at the table, and leave.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Tipping isn’t going away, an entire industry of wage suppression and exploitation is based on it
  - syshum 5y ago
    Except it is not, but ok. I bet you are one of those people that believe wait staff only make $2/hr right?
    - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
      It’s closer to $3/hr before tips. If they don’t make minimum wage from tips and $3/hr the restaurant must supplement to at least minimum wage. That’s a lot to just make minimum wage.
      - syshum 5y ago
        Well lets do some math. Around here an average meal at a restaurant would be about $14 lunch and $18 dinner per person. So to make the often promoted $15/hr wage, the server would need to clear $96 in tips over the base wage of $3/hr. At an average of 18% tips that would mean the ticket revenue would need to be $534 for the shift. @16 avg per person that is about 4 people per hour, or 1 or 2 tables per hour If the restaurant is that slow, that the server is only serving 1 table per hour, well chances are the server needs to look for another job anyway because that place will not be in business very long. This is also why alot of servers I know prefer the tipped model over a higher base wage, if a strait 15/hr wage was created with no tips, many servers would make LESS money then under the current system Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen
        brewdad 5y ago
        > Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen It almost does in Portland. Starting July 1st, it's $14 plus tips. There is no "tipped employee" minimum wage. It's the same for all. I think it will be $13 per hour in the rest of Oregon outside the metro area but there may be a third level for the most rural counties.
        kbelder 5y ago
        I'm in Oregon and I didn't realize that. Don't mean to be too much of a jerk, but I may adjust my tipping downwards. I typically do closer to 20%.
        padastra 5y ago
        There are many states where minimum wage for workers is above the federal $2.13 (actually, a bit more than half): https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped This whole $2 thing is bullshit that’s carried forward if you’re the average HN reader in a coastal city. My friends who are waiters across a spectrum of restaurants (in a coastal city) probably make $50-60 an hour, and double that at the higher end places, for a job that yes, can be exhausting (but not exceptionally more so than many other low-skill jobs), and requires no specific training or degree.
    - rdtwo 5y ago
      Not everywhere but in some places it happens if it’s a slow night and the restaurant does some sort of thing where they average out all the tips over a week/month. A waiter could very well earn 3-4$ per hour if they earned 15 on the weekend. It’s not legal but it happens. Even shadier shit happens where the restaurant makes employees repot tips that didn’t happen to keep above the minimum. Then they have to pay taxes off income not earned. Is it illegal? Yeah but it’s difficult to enforce and the people getting screwed are already very vulnerable (not your hipster big city wait staff)
      - syshum 5y ago
        If we are going to dip into the illegal then what makes you believe a higher min wage would change the equation. The context of this conversation is around restaurants being able to legally pay less because of tipping, however if they willing to violated the laws that we have now, why would they not also violate the min wage laws.
- loonster 5y ago
  I absolutely stopped going to restaurants that have those table tablets. It's just too distracting.
  - syshum 5y ago
    hmm, I prefer them. I never liked handing my card to wait staff where they take off somewhere.. I 100% prefer pay at table, and would 100% prefer order at table as well, less chance they get my order wrong
    - antsar 5y ago
      Those tablets range from "large-screen credit card terminal with order entry" to "brightly flashing ad-infested slot machine exploitation box that might let you order food if you figure out how to close the fucking ads. With a cloud-connected webcam, because why not". Actually, now that I've think of it, I'm not sure I've ever seen the "large-screen credit card terminal with order entry" version in real life.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      So you trust them to cook your food, but you are worried they will take off with your card? Do you live in a first world country or a failed state?
      - kn0where 5y ago
        Some would argue the US is both.
      - syshum 5y ago
        never heard of card skimming have you?
        Grustaf 5y ago
        Not really in a first world country, no…
- bombcar 5y ago
  Applebees allows you to order from the kiosk. I bet that after a few times of doing that you could get a situation where the waitress would recognize you and not even stop by until she's bringing your order. I still feel that these products are "sold" to restaurants and aren't actually all they're cracked up to be.
- greenshackle2 5y ago
  > only has Cooks and Food Runners with no traditional waitstaff They've had this in Japan since before tablets in the form of vending machine restaurants. You order and pay at a vending machine and get a ticket, you sit down and hand in your ticket, and someone brings the food to your table. I haven't been in many years, I guess now they have touch screen kiosks instead of old school vending machines.
  - xxpor 5y ago
    I loved those as a tourist that doesn't speak any Japanese. The touch screens would always have an English option.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Have you been to a buffet?
  - syshum 5y ago
    not recently, most of the buffet's around me closed permanently due to covid, while we did allow indoor dinning, their was a ban of self service food. A few converted to carry out only, and have not gone back to buffet style. There are still a few open of course but no where near as many, and the ones that survived seems to be of lesser quality
jimbokun 5y ago
My favorite UX mental game is "Can you describe the paper interface as a new, innovative system relative to the technology solution?" So with the paper pad waitress experience: 1. Responsive, zero latency interactions. 2. Accepts free form text entry. 3. No multi step UI control lookups. 4. Allows entry of customer modifications and requests to items. 5. Allows custom abbreviations. Etc. etc.
- jmkb 5y ago
  Supports every written alphabet out of the box, including custom emoji. Compatible with any brand of stylus. Can run thousands of games. Can go years without a charge. Never needs OS updates. Sustainable, recyclable, compostable. Flashlight mode doesn't last very long, though.
  - jamil7 5y ago
    > Flashlight mode doesn't last very long, though. Is flashlight mode when you set it on fire?
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    > Compatible with any brand of stylus. Well except, you know, literally a stylus.
- dylan604 5y ago
  I see this as the beginnings of a comedy bit. A group of people around a confernece table with someone presenting their slide deck. Maybe the conference table is replaced with "sharks" in cushy chairs?? At the end the presenter says "and now let me show you my invention" while reaching into back pocket to whip out a spiral bound note pad with a pencil in the spiral. "Oh, one more thing... It comes with its own iPencil holder"
conductr 5y ago
My biggest cheapskate-old-man gripe is how the UX as you said is systemically deteriorating in restaurants yet the tip expectations have creeped up from 15% standard to now 25% default. And, all apps that compute tip % or recommended tip amounts tip on top of tax, which really irks me as just a dark pattern to rip off patrons and inflate the tip amount. This is US tipping culture at absolute worse. I hold at 15% standard. Yet, many apps have defaults for 18%, 20%, 22%... all way up to 30% from what I've seen. And, they allow me to "Custom Tip" which I do once I find it (it's usually small and text instead of a button like the presets). However, once you select custom I'm back into dollars instead of percents so I have to do the math myself (and I don't even remember what the total was by this screen). At this point, I'm feeling like "okay you just don't want my money then because I'm not a whale of a tipper" so I have as some act of defiance started just skipping it altogether. I know it's not fair for that server but it's what little I can do to voice my dissent of the system.
- msrenee 5y ago
  You're not really voicing your dissent at that point. The server gets no tip and doesn't get any indication why. Why not just bring cash to tip? Or call the restaurant and talk to the manager? Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over.
  - conductr 5y ago
    > Why not just bring cash to tip? Or call the restaurant and talk to the manager? We're talking patron UX here and point is I don't what to shoulder the burden. I didn't even want to calculate 15% tip in my head and you want me to start carrying cash everywhere, something I haven't done since Y2K was a concern. Spend 15 minutes waiting for the manager to come over? No thanks. > Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over. I view that as "not my problem". I know it's wrong if the server gets screwed, I'm not arguing this is a just behavior on my part. But, if you extrapolate my behavior to all patrons the restaurant would get a hint real quick that people didn't want to tip 20%/25% and reduce the defaults. They know I'm dissenting it's just that I'm the only one dissenting so they're not even paying attention. Instead, what is happening is the opposite. Patrons were conditioned that 15% is too low. 20% is now standard, pushing up to 25% which will be standard in a couple years if trend continues. FWIW, I hate tipping in general. I wish they were paid a fair wage and I was billed appropriately on the front end.

syshum 5y ago

Several of the large chains already have pay at table kiosk's I have always wondered why they just do not have order at table as well... I am waiting for the first restaurant that only has Cooks and Food Runners with no traditional waitstaff... This will likely coincide with the removal of tipping as a custom in the US. We will move to kiosk ordering, press a button to get drink refills, pay at the table, and leave.

rdtwo 5y ago
Tipping isn’t going away, an entire industry of wage suppression and exploitation is based on it
- syshum 5y ago
  Except it is not, but ok. I bet you are one of those people that believe wait staff only make $2/hr right?
  - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
    It’s closer to $3/hr before tips. If they don’t make minimum wage from tips and $3/hr the restaurant must supplement to at least minimum wage. That’s a lot to just make minimum wage.
    - syshum 5y ago
      Well lets do some math. Around here an average meal at a restaurant would be about $14 lunch and $18 dinner per person. So to make the often promoted $15/hr wage, the server would need to clear $96 in tips over the base wage of $3/hr. At an average of 18% tips that would mean the ticket revenue would need to be $534 for the shift. @16 avg per person that is about 4 people per hour, or 1 or 2 tables per hour If the restaurant is that slow, that the server is only serving 1 table per hour, well chances are the server needs to look for another job anyway because that place will not be in business very long. This is also why alot of servers I know prefer the tipped model over a higher base wage, if a strait 15/hr wage was created with no tips, many servers would make LESS money then under the current system Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen
      - brewdad 5y ago
        > Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen It almost does in Portland. Starting July 1st, it's $14 plus tips. There is no "tipped employee" minimum wage. It's the same for all. I think it will be $13 per hour in the rest of Oregon outside the metro area but there may be a third level for the most rural counties.
        kbelder 5y ago
        I'm in Oregon and I didn't realize that. Don't mean to be too much of a jerk, but I may adjust my tipping downwards. I typically do closer to 20%.
        padastra 5y ago
        There are many states where minimum wage for workers is above the federal $2.13 (actually, a bit more than half): https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped This whole $2 thing is bullshit that’s carried forward if you’re the average HN reader in a coastal city. My friends who are waiters across a spectrum of restaurants (in a coastal city) probably make $50-60 an hour, and double that at the higher end places, for a job that yes, can be exhausting (but not exceptionally more so than many other low-skill jobs), and requires no specific training or degree.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    Not everywhere but in some places it happens if it’s a slow night and the restaurant does some sort of thing where they average out all the tips over a week/month. A waiter could very well earn 3-4$ per hour if they earned 15 on the weekend. It’s not legal but it happens. Even shadier shit happens where the restaurant makes employees repot tips that didn’t happen to keep above the minimum. Then they have to pay taxes off income not earned. Is it illegal? Yeah but it’s difficult to enforce and the people getting screwed are already very vulnerable (not your hipster big city wait staff)
    - syshum 5y ago
      If we are going to dip into the illegal then what makes you believe a higher min wage would change the equation. The context of this conversation is around restaurants being able to legally pay less because of tipping, however if they willing to violated the laws that we have now, why would they not also violate the min wage laws.
loonster 5y ago
I absolutely stopped going to restaurants that have those table tablets. It's just too distracting.
- syshum 5y ago
  hmm, I prefer them. I never liked handing my card to wait staff where they take off somewhere.. I 100% prefer pay at table, and would 100% prefer order at table as well, less chance they get my order wrong
  - antsar 5y ago
    Those tablets range from "large-screen credit card terminal with order entry" to "brightly flashing ad-infested slot machine exploitation box that might let you order food if you figure out how to close the fucking ads. With a cloud-connected webcam, because why not". Actually, now that I've think of it, I'm not sure I've ever seen the "large-screen credit card terminal with order entry" version in real life.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    So you trust them to cook your food, but you are worried they will take off with your card? Do you live in a first world country or a failed state?
    - kn0where 5y ago
      Some would argue the US is both.
    - syshum 5y ago
      never heard of card skimming have you?
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        Not really in a first world country, no…
bombcar 5y ago
Applebees allows you to order from the kiosk. I bet that after a few times of doing that you could get a situation where the waitress would recognize you and not even stop by until she's bringing your order. I still feel that these products are "sold" to restaurants and aren't actually all they're cracked up to be.
greenshackle2 5y ago
> only has Cooks and Food Runners with no traditional waitstaff They've had this in Japan since before tablets in the form of vending machine restaurants. You order and pay at a vending machine and get a ticket, you sit down and hand in your ticket, and someone brings the food to your table. I haven't been in many years, I guess now they have touch screen kiosks instead of old school vending machines.
- xxpor 5y ago
  I loved those as a tourist that doesn't speak any Japanese. The touch screens would always have an English option.
mcguire 5y ago
Have you been to a buffet?
- syshum 5y ago
  not recently, most of the buffet's around me closed permanently due to covid, while we did allow indoor dinning, their was a ban of self service food. A few converted to carry out only, and have not gone back to buffet style. There are still a few open of course but no where near as many, and the ones that survived seems to be of lesser quality

jimbokun 5y ago

My favorite UX mental game is "Can you describe the paper interface as a new, innovative system relative to the technology solution?" So with the paper pad waitress experience: 1. Responsive, zero latency interactions. 2. Accepts free form text entry. 3. No multi step UI control lookups. 4. Allows entry of customer modifications and requests to items. 5. Allows custom abbreviations. Etc. etc.

jmkb 5y ago
Supports every written alphabet out of the box, including custom emoji. Compatible with any brand of stylus. Can run thousands of games. Can go years without a charge. Never needs OS updates. Sustainable, recyclable, compostable. Flashlight mode doesn't last very long, though.
- jamil7 5y ago
  > Flashlight mode doesn't last very long, though. Is flashlight mode when you set it on fire?
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  > Compatible with any brand of stylus. Well except, you know, literally a stylus.
dylan604 5y ago
I see this as the beginnings of a comedy bit. A group of people around a confernece table with someone presenting their slide deck. Maybe the conference table is replaced with "sharks" in cushy chairs?? At the end the presenter says "and now let me show you my invention" while reaching into back pocket to whip out a spiral bound note pad with a pencil in the spiral. "Oh, one more thing... It comes with its own iPencil holder"

conductr 5y ago

My biggest cheapskate-old-man gripe is how the UX as you said is systemically deteriorating in restaurants yet the tip expectations have creeped up from 15% standard to now 25% default. And, all apps that compute tip % or recommended tip amounts tip on top of tax, which really irks me as just a dark pattern to rip off patrons and inflate the tip amount. This is US tipping culture at absolute worse. I hold at 15% standard. Yet, many apps have defaults for 18%, 20%, 22%... all way up to 30% from what I've seen. And, they allow me to "Custom Tip" which I do once I find it (it's usually small and text instead of a button like the presets). However, once you select custom I'm back into dollars instead of percents so I have to do the math myself (and I don't even remember what the total was by this screen). At this point, I'm feeling like "okay you just don't want my money then because I'm not a whale of a tipper" so I have as some act of defiance started just skipping it altogether. I know it's not fair for that server but it's what little I can do to voice my dissent of the system.

msrenee 5y ago
You're not really voicing your dissent at that point. The server gets no tip and doesn't get any indication why. Why not just bring cash to tip? Or call the restaurant and talk to the manager? Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over.
- conductr 5y ago
  > Why not just bring cash to tip? Or call the restaurant and talk to the manager? We're talking patron UX here and point is I don't what to shoulder the burden. I didn't even want to calculate 15% tip in my head and you want me to start carrying cash everywhere, something I haven't done since Y2K was a concern. Spend 15 minutes waiting for the manager to come over? No thanks. > Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over. I view that as "not my problem". I know it's wrong if the server gets screwed, I'm not arguing this is a just behavior on my part. But, if you extrapolate my behavior to all patrons the restaurant would get a hint real quick that people didn't want to tip 20%/25% and reduce the defaults. They know I'm dissenting it's just that I'm the only one dissenting so they're not even paying attention. Instead, what is happening is the opposite. Patrons were conditioned that 15% is too low. 20% is now standard, pushing up to 25% which will be standard in a couple years if trend continues. FWIW, I hate tipping in general. I wish they were paid a fair wage and I was billed appropriately on the front end.