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> I've always suspected that people who claimed they could visualize things with great clarity were lying I know this will do nothing to dispel your suspicion,

by the_af 5y ago

> I've always suspected that people who claimed they could visualize things with great clarity were lying I know this will do nothing to dispel your suspicion, but I can see people and places with great clarity, detail, in color and moving, and if I focus on them they are not fleeting (I get involuntary images that are fleeting though). You'll be right to dismiss my claim -- I'm some random stranger on the internet after all -- but I can only assure you that not only am I not lying, until very recently I thought this was the norm. In fact, I had to be convinced by a friend who suffers from it that aphantasia is not a hoax. I still cannot understand how someone can be unable to see the face of their loved ones unless they are actually in front of them. As for the red lights in this experiment: they started to change as my eyes became unfocused, and I got some "hypnotic" dizzy feeling after a couple of minutes, but didn't see any shapes and got bored with it so I closed the window.

dorkwood 5y ago
There's a test I'd like to give someone with your abilities one day, and I'd love if you took the time to try this. I forget where I originally saw it, but it goes something like this: Imagine you're looking down on a grid of squares. It's a little bit like a chess board, but it's only four squares wide and four squares high. In each square is a single letter, and each horizontal row spells a four-letter word. The top row spells "SEER" , the second row spells "SLAP", the third row spells "HEAL", and the bottom row spells "TRIM". While visualizing this grid of letters in front of you, can you now tell me which words you see running either vertically or diagonally? You should be able to do this by looking at the grid and without having to do any sorting of letters in your mind. My suspicion is that people who claim they can visualize images perfectly won't be able to do this, despite only having to memorize four words to complete the picture.
- greazy 5y ago
  This is a very interesting test. I wonder if there is a simpler version of this test as it seem to be aimed at high level vividness? I'm on one spectrum (absolutely no imagination), this test might be aimed at the other end.
- the_af 5y ago
  > My suspicion is that people who claim they can visualize images perfectly won't be able to do this Note: I do not "claim" to visualize, I can do it, like many others. Remember that aphantasia is the uncommon condition. I cannot see vertical or diagonal words and in fact have trouble focusing on the words. I can see one at a time clearly, but if I focus on the others the rest become blurry. I can see the checkered board though. I suspect this is because your example is too artificial and analytical. My visual mind doesn't work analytically like this. I can see the face of my friends and family with lots of details (I can see them with different hair cuts for example), even hear their voices. I can remember scenes from my last vacation clearly, in full color. But I cannot do a crossword puzzle visually, sorry. I can see equations floating in my mind, but only if I focus on a narrow section; and I obviously cannot do serious math with them.
  - dorkwood 5y ago
    Thank you for your answer. The reason I wanted to give this test is that I think we may be experiencing the same thing, but interpreting what we see differently. I too can recall scenes from my last holiday trip. I can "see" the night time scene at the bar, the placement of me and my friends around the table, the lady in a white shirt delivering our drinks -- but it's not the same as a real photograph. It's a different type of vision altogether. It's possible that there are people who are experiencing the same thing as I am, but are describing what they are seeing as a clear photograph. My argument is that it's not a clear photograph if you can't inspect any details.
    - the_af 5y ago
      Oh, agreed. It's not as clear as a photograph and you have to make an effort to "pin down" the image. In fact, I suspect many of my mental images are inaccurate and my brain is making some stuff up. I'm not claiming to have perfect recall, just that I see visual imagery with my mind :)
    - the_af 5y ago
      Out of curiosity, can you also not hear "vivid" music in your mind? My friend can't, at best he can "hear" himself mumbling something resembling the original piece. I however can hear passages of music I remember well: the opening from Star Wars, parts of Kind of Blue or songs from Pink Floyd, the intro song of many TV shows, etc. I probably cannot pass a test equivalent to the crossword puzzle either, but I definitely can hear the music and it's not just me mumbling in my head.
- dekhn 5y ago
  I can't do this. I simply can't imagine that grid in my head fully populated; I have to keep going back to the text. If I concentrate extremely hard, I can kind of keep one or two of the words pictured in my head for a millisecond.

by the_af 5y ago

dorkwood 5y ago

There's a test I'd like to give someone with your abilities one day, and I'd love if you took the time to try this. I forget where I originally saw it, but it goes something like this: Imagine you're looking down on a grid of squares. It's a little bit like a chess board, but it's only four squares wide and four squares high. In each square is a single letter, and each horizontal row spells a four-letter word. The top row spells "SEER" , the second row spells "SLAP", the third row spells "HEAL", and the bottom row spells "TRIM". While visualizing this grid of letters in front of you, can you now tell me which words you see running either vertically or diagonally? You should be able to do this by looking at the grid and without having to do any sorting of letters in your mind. My suspicion is that people who claim they can visualize images perfectly won't be able to do this, despite only having to memorize four words to complete the picture.

greazy 5y ago
This is a very interesting test. I wonder if there is a simpler version of this test as it seem to be aimed at high level vividness? I'm on one spectrum (absolutely no imagination), this test might be aimed at the other end.
the_af 5y ago
> My suspicion is that people who claim they can visualize images perfectly won't be able to do this Note: I do not "claim" to visualize, I can do it, like many others. Remember that aphantasia is the uncommon condition. I cannot see vertical or diagonal words and in fact have trouble focusing on the words. I can see one at a time clearly, but if I focus on the others the rest become blurry. I can see the checkered board though. I suspect this is because your example is too artificial and analytical. My visual mind doesn't work analytically like this. I can see the face of my friends and family with lots of details (I can see them with different hair cuts for example), even hear their voices. I can remember scenes from my last vacation clearly, in full color. But I cannot do a crossword puzzle visually, sorry. I can see equations floating in my mind, but only if I focus on a narrow section; and I obviously cannot do serious math with them.
- dorkwood 5y ago
  Thank you for your answer. The reason I wanted to give this test is that I think we may be experiencing the same thing, but interpreting what we see differently. I too can recall scenes from my last holiday trip. I can "see" the night time scene at the bar, the placement of me and my friends around the table, the lady in a white shirt delivering our drinks -- but it's not the same as a real photograph. It's a different type of vision altogether. It's possible that there are people who are experiencing the same thing as I am, but are describing what they are seeing as a clear photograph. My argument is that it's not a clear photograph if you can't inspect any details.
  - the_af 5y ago
    Oh, agreed. It's not as clear as a photograph and you have to make an effort to "pin down" the image. In fact, I suspect many of my mental images are inaccurate and my brain is making some stuff up. I'm not claiming to have perfect recall, just that I see visual imagery with my mind :)
  - the_af 5y ago
    Out of curiosity, can you also not hear "vivid" music in your mind? My friend can't, at best he can "hear" himself mumbling something resembling the original piece. I however can hear passages of music I remember well: the opening from Star Wars, parts of Kind of Blue or songs from Pink Floyd, the intro song of many TV shows, etc. I probably cannot pass a test equivalent to the crossword puzzle either, but I definitely can hear the music and it's not just me mumbling in my head.
dekhn 5y ago
I can't do this. I simply can't imagine that grid in my head fully populated; I have to keep going back to the text. If I concentrate extremely hard, I can kind of keep one or two of the words pictured in my head for a millisecond.