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I watched this for ten minutes and didn't see anything (apart from a flashing red screen). I'm supposed to be the artistic one in the family, so I can't help bu

I watched this for ten minutes and didn't see anything (apart from a flashing red screen). I'm supposed to be the artistic one in the family, so I can't help but feel slightly disdapointed. I've always suspected that people who claimed they could visualize things with great clarity were lying (the "images" in my mind's eye are very fleeting, lacking in detail, and can't be focused on -- like they're on the extremes of my periphery) but maybe I really was born with a disadvantage.

noman-land 5y ago
My mental images are usually very similar to how you described yours. I'm also "creative". I've casually self-diagnosed myself as "not being able to see images in my head". However there have been times where I've had picture perfect clarity of something in 3d, including color, but it only lasts for moments and I've never been able to conjure it on purpose.
- possibleworlds 5y ago
  I was friends (more aquaintances now since I haven't seen him for quite a few years) with an incredibly talented artist / illustrator. I worked with him for a period and would place him more than anyone else I have ever met in the genius spectrum based on a number of factors. One of them is that I know that he can vizualize fully formed images, to the extent that some of his work is just transcribed directly from what he sees in his mind. I have never been able to do anything close to this, and similarly have self-diagnosed as much weaker in this "power". I mean I can visualize things in my mind but it is fuzzy and fleeting, like focusing on any detail collapses the field of view. This episode of radiolab about a musician who can maintain a 3d mental image of four orchestras playing at once always stuck with me, and seems relevant to this topic: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/301427-head-full-symphonies https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/30142...
  - egypturnash 5y ago
    he can vizualize fully formed images, to the extent that some of his work is just transcribed directly from what he sees in his mind. FWIW this is sort of a thing that the process of becoming an artist trains you to do. I have been a professional artist for a couple decades and it is much easier for me to do this sort of thing than it was when I was a kid. There's a lot of steps involved in projecting a mental 3d model onto a 2d plane that I can just do in my head now because I've done them so damn many times. There's definitely an innate level of doing this as well, some people start with a big boost, various psychoactive chemicals can help (I have done so much work while slightly stoned for the performance boost it gives my visual cortex), and then there is that story about one 1940s animator at Warner Bros. who got in a car accident that involved a degree of head injury, and could suddenly just "trace" stuff directly off of his mental images onto paper once he recovered.
- sadness3 5y ago
  I've heard that there are people who think in words, and those who think in pictures, and combinations of the above. If you don't think in pictures, cannot visualize what you will paint, what's your point of reference enabling you to put paint to canvas?
irjustin 5y ago
Question: When asked to remember a person's face, can you see it in your head/"mind's eye"? FWIW, I don't think the ability to visualize something specifically in your "mind's eye" has a lot to do with creativity. I interpret this as more about direct recall of memory. The stronger the visuals the more likely you are to be able to recall a specific event/visual in more detail (whether it's accurate is up for debate). Disclaimer, I have no idea what I'm talking about - I just like this subject.
- hairofadog 5y ago
  It’s a very interesting question, because I can call someone’s face into memory, but as if I’m seeing it in my peripheral vision, which is to say the details aren’t there. I have some experience drawing, and I can knock off a pretty good likeness, but I couldn’t do that from memory. Yet I can definitely picture their face.
- prower 5y ago
  Not the parent, but i can't recall faces (not even my parents) aside from isolated features, like a mustache. I've seen absolutely nothing on this flashing screen despite looking at it for around 5 minutes. I don't think everyone else is lying, but i wonder if other people's brains just get "bored" and start imagining things, on a moving visual canvas. Overall, this was totally disappointing.
  - the_af 5y ago
    > i wonder if other people's brains just get "bored" and start imagining things I think that's precisely the intended effect of this experiment. Note that whether people's minds get bored or not, the idea is the same: whether they can visualize things that aren't really in front of them.
- dorkwood 5y ago
  Barely. If I try to recall a friend's face, I sort of get small pieces. Maybe the way their eyes squint when they smile. I have more success if I try to remember a photograph I've seen of that person. I can kind of "see" them then, but again, it's very faint, and more like a memory -- the idea of a picture is there, but it's not possible to inspect any detail.
xivzgrev 5y ago
Im amazed you were able to watch whole thing - I stopped after about 15 seconds. Just felt uncomfortable to watch
the_af 5y ago
> I've always suspected that people who claimed they could visualize things with great clarity were lying I know this will do nothing to dispel your suspicion, but I can see people and places with great clarity, detail, in color and moving, and if I focus on them they are not fleeting (I get involuntary images that are fleeting though). You'll be right to dismiss my claim -- I'm some random stranger on the internet after all -- but I can only assure you that not only am I not lying, until very recently I thought this was the norm. In fact, I had to be convinced by a friend who suffers from it that aphantasia is not a hoax. I still cannot understand how someone can be unable to see the face of their loved ones unless they are actually in front of them. As for the red lights in this experiment: they started to change as my eyes became unfocused, and I got some "hypnotic" dizzy feeling after a couple of minutes, but didn't see any shapes and got bored with it so I closed the window.
- dorkwood 5y ago
  There's a test I'd like to give someone with your abilities one day, and I'd love if you took the time to try this. I forget where I originally saw it, but it goes something like this: Imagine you're looking down on a grid of squares. It's a little bit like a chess board, but it's only four squares wide and four squares high. In each square is a single letter, and each horizontal row spells a four-letter word. The top row spells "SEER" , the second row spells "SLAP", the third row spells "HEAL", and the bottom row spells "TRIM". While visualizing this grid of letters in front of you, can you now tell me which words you see running either vertically or diagonally? You should be able to do this by looking at the grid and without having to do any sorting of letters in your mind. My suspicion is that people who claim they can visualize images perfectly won't be able to do this, despite only having to memorize four words to complete the picture.
  - greazy 5y ago
    This is a very interesting test. I wonder if there is a simpler version of this test as it seem to be aimed at high level vividness? I'm on one spectrum (absolutely no imagination), this test might be aimed at the other end.
  - 5y ago
shard 5y ago
I always thought my visualization abilities are pretty good. I can recall people's faces pretty well, along with their posture and gestures. I can imagine 3D shapes and rotate them and fit them together. I can visualize different shades of colors. But this blinky screen plus white noise gave me nothing after 5 minutes except some slightly brighter and darker areas, and I aborted. <Hercules> Disappointed! </Hercules>
LordGrey 5y ago
Watching that for 10 minutes was really irritating. I saw nothing but red and black flickers the entire time. I learned about six months ago that Aphantasia was a thing, and that I seem to have it. For me, this was a cool (if massively annoying) confirmation.
EricE 5y ago
They aren't lying, your brain just works differently. It even has a name: https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-aphantasia https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-aphantasia Not sure why they talk about it being "wrong" since obviously you are functioning enough to be commenting on a site on the internet rather coherently....

noman-land 5y ago

My mental images are usually very similar to how you described yours. I'm also "creative". I've casually self-diagnosed myself as "not being able to see images in my head". However there have been times where I've had picture perfect clarity of something in 3d, including color, but it only lasts for moments and I've never been able to conjure it on purpose.

possibleworlds 5y ago
I was friends (more aquaintances now since I haven't seen him for quite a few years) with an incredibly talented artist / illustrator. I worked with him for a period and would place him more than anyone else I have ever met in the genius spectrum based on a number of factors. One of them is that I know that he can vizualize fully formed images, to the extent that some of his work is just transcribed directly from what he sees in his mind. I have never been able to do anything close to this, and similarly have self-diagnosed as much weaker in this "power". I mean I can visualize things in my mind but it is fuzzy and fleeting, like focusing on any detail collapses the field of view. This episode of radiolab about a musician who can maintain a 3d mental image of four orchestras playing at once always stuck with me, and seems relevant to this topic: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/301427-head-full-symphonies https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/30142...
- egypturnash 5y ago
  he can vizualize fully formed images, to the extent that some of his work is just transcribed directly from what he sees in his mind. FWIW this is sort of a thing that the process of becoming an artist trains you to do. I have been a professional artist for a couple decades and it is much easier for me to do this sort of thing than it was when I was a kid. There's a lot of steps involved in projecting a mental 3d model onto a 2d plane that I can just do in my head now because I've done them so damn many times. There's definitely an innate level of doing this as well, some people start with a big boost, various psychoactive chemicals can help (I have done so much work while slightly stoned for the performance boost it gives my visual cortex), and then there is that story about one 1940s animator at Warner Bros. who got in a car accident that involved a degree of head injury, and could suddenly just "trace" stuff directly off of his mental images onto paper once he recovered.
sadness3 5y ago
I've heard that there are people who think in words, and those who think in pictures, and combinations of the above. If you don't think in pictures, cannot visualize what you will paint, what's your point of reference enabling you to put paint to canvas?

irjustin 5y ago

Question: When asked to remember a person's face, can you see it in your head/"mind's eye"? FWIW, I don't think the ability to visualize something specifically in your "mind's eye" has a lot to do with creativity. I interpret this as more about direct recall of memory. The stronger the visuals the more likely you are to be able to recall a specific event/visual in more detail (whether it's accurate is up for debate). Disclaimer, I have no idea what I'm talking about - I just like this subject.

hairofadog 5y ago
It’s a very interesting question, because I can call someone’s face into memory, but as if I’m seeing it in my peripheral vision, which is to say the details aren’t there. I have some experience drawing, and I can knock off a pretty good likeness, but I couldn’t do that from memory. Yet I can definitely picture their face.
prower 5y ago
Not the parent, but i can't recall faces (not even my parents) aside from isolated features, like a mustache. I've seen absolutely nothing on this flashing screen despite looking at it for around 5 minutes. I don't think everyone else is lying, but i wonder if other people's brains just get "bored" and start imagining things, on a moving visual canvas. Overall, this was totally disappointing.
- the_af 5y ago
  > i wonder if other people's brains just get "bored" and start imagining things I think that's precisely the intended effect of this experiment. Note that whether people's minds get bored or not, the idea is the same: whether they can visualize things that aren't really in front of them.
dorkwood 5y ago
Barely. If I try to recall a friend's face, I sort of get small pieces. Maybe the way their eyes squint when they smile. I have more success if I try to remember a photograph I've seen of that person. I can kind of "see" them then, but again, it's very faint, and more like a memory -- the idea of a picture is there, but it's not possible to inspect any detail.

xivzgrev 5y ago

Im amazed you were able to watch whole thing - I stopped after about 15 seconds. Just felt uncomfortable to watch

the_af 5y ago

> I've always suspected that people who claimed they could visualize things with great clarity were lying I know this will do nothing to dispel your suspicion, but I can see people and places with great clarity, detail, in color and moving, and if I focus on them they are not fleeting (I get involuntary images that are fleeting though). You'll be right to dismiss my claim -- I'm some random stranger on the internet after all -- but I can only assure you that not only am I not lying, until very recently I thought this was the norm. In fact, I had to be convinced by a friend who suffers from it that aphantasia is not a hoax. I still cannot understand how someone can be unable to see the face of their loved ones unless they are actually in front of them. As for the red lights in this experiment: they started to change as my eyes became unfocused, and I got some "hypnotic" dizzy feeling after a couple of minutes, but didn't see any shapes and got bored with it so I closed the window.

dorkwood 5y ago
There's a test I'd like to give someone with your abilities one day, and I'd love if you took the time to try this. I forget where I originally saw it, but it goes something like this: Imagine you're looking down on a grid of squares. It's a little bit like a chess board, but it's only four squares wide and four squares high. In each square is a single letter, and each horizontal row spells a four-letter word. The top row spells "SEER" , the second row spells "SLAP", the third row spells "HEAL", and the bottom row spells "TRIM". While visualizing this grid of letters in front of you, can you now tell me which words you see running either vertically or diagonally? You should be able to do this by looking at the grid and without having to do any sorting of letters in your mind. My suspicion is that people who claim they can visualize images perfectly won't be able to do this, despite only having to memorize four words to complete the picture.
- greazy 5y ago
  This is a very interesting test. I wonder if there is a simpler version of this test as it seem to be aimed at high level vividness? I'm on one spectrum (absolutely no imagination), this test might be aimed at the other end.
- 5y ago

shard 5y ago

I always thought my visualization abilities are pretty good. I can recall people's faces pretty well, along with their posture and gestures. I can imagine 3D shapes and rotate them and fit them together. I can visualize different shades of colors. But this blinky screen plus white noise gave me nothing after 5 minutes except some slightly brighter and darker areas, and I aborted. <Hercules> Disappointed! </Hercules>

LordGrey 5y ago

Watching that for 10 minutes was really irritating. I saw nothing but red and black flickers the entire time. I learned about six months ago that Aphantasia was a thing, and that I seem to have it. For me, this was a cool (if massively annoying) confirmation.

EricE 5y ago

They aren't lying, your brain just works differently. It even has a name: https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-aphantasia https://www.webmd.com/brain/what-is-aphantasia Not sure why they talk about it being "wrong" since obviously you are functioning enough to be commenting on a site on the internet rather coherently....