8 ms·

What's the actual situation there? I have read that cheap insulin for example is available at WallMart, but for some reason the price of insulin seems to be a

by skohan 5y ago

What's the actual situation there? I have read that cheap insulin for example is available at WallMart, but for some reason the price of insulin seems to be a huge issue.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chiefalchemist 5y ago
The situation is that Type 2 Diabetes has raised the demand for insulin. More demand raises prices. The thing we can't talk about without risking cancellation is that nearly all Type 2 Diabetes is preventable. In other words, the choices of the many have a significant negative impact on those (i.e., Type 1'ers) who don't really have a choice.
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  Down voted (faux cancelled) as expected. For stating fact and truth? God bless you.
- mgarfias 5y ago
  Our food system is sure rigged to make us fat. But then, in my case, what was it that triggered the t2d? Was it the family genetics (both parents are t2d in their old age), the over abundance of sugar in the std American diet, the stress caused by abusive relationships (parents suck, plus ex wife made my life a living hell), or the adrenal tumor? I’ll never know and I’m stuck with it.
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    Two of three you have control over. Some might even agrue epigenetics says three of three. Diet. Exercise. Etc. All known to change T2D.
- skohan 5y ago
  Do you have a source on the scarcity claim? My understanding was that insulin is incredibly cheap to produce.
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    Never claimed scarcity. Only that as demand has increased - and it has significantly - so has price. It's basic economics. Unless there are additional economies of scale from that multiple then prices are going to increase. This isn't about insulin. It's simple economics.
- dekhn 5y ago
  the increased demand for insulin is not why the price is higher. Insulin is made in massive facilities in large batch runs. Making 5X to 10X is basically cost of materials, which haven't really increased enough to justify the price increase. This is (mostly likely) a rent-seeking situation where a few providers who are allowed in the market are milking it for all the profit they can.
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    > This is (mostly likely) a rent-seeking situation where a few providers who are allowed in the market are milking it for all the profit they can. That is also known as demand. They do because they can.
    - skohan 5y ago
      Many of your comments reflect a misunderstanding of basic economics
      - chiefalchemist 5y ago
        I'm the downvotee. I think they understand economics. Who doesn't? What they refuse to admit is: 1) Healthcare is a limited resource, like anything else. 2) Prevention, which few if any "leaders" highlight, is a viable alternative to healthcare price increases. Are there there some nefarious undercurrents? Yes, of course. But to blame all our ills - and remove diet, lifestyle, etc. - on ever increasing demand only makes the current system stronger. People who believe they have no control aren't part of the solution.
        skohan 5y ago
        I recommend reading up on the laws of supply and demand.
- Teknoman117 5y ago
  the EU has twice as many diabetics as the United States yet they have no "shortage" or "demand" related problems. Our situation has nothing to do with demand and everything to do with corporate greed. Many western European countries empower their governments to set upper bounds on the costs of medication to reduce the ability of pharma-bros to make disgusting amounts of personal wealth off the suffering of others.
- hourislate 5y ago
  I think we all understand that Type II is preventable but I don't think that's the main focus here. There are plenty of folks who have Type I that can't afford Insulin and have to ration it causing harm and additional costs in healthcare. It's slow mass murder for Type I diabetics who can't afford their medicine. If you believe that it is a supply and demand issue why does the same Insulin cost 80% less in a country like Canada and before you say it's subsidized, it isn't. An American can buy it for substantially less if they can get a prescription from a Canadian doctor.
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    > There are plenty of folks who have Type I that can't afford Insulin and have to ration it causing harm and additional costs in healthcare Exactly. The preventable T2D is driving up demand (read: prices) for both T1D and T2D. I don't know about Canada. I do know about supply and demand. We all do. In the context of healthcare it makes no sense that ppl abuse their health and then expect prices to fall.
    - hourislate 5y ago
      What if I were to tell you the the Insulin for Type II diabetes is $35 at Walmart and the Insulin for Type I is $380-$500. By your reasoning shouldn't it all be expensive? What you fail to consider it that the company that controls the particular type of Insulin that Type I diabetics require is charging 80% less in Canada than in the USA with everything else equal. Do you get it?
      - chiefalchemist 5y ago
        Manufacturing - not just the product - is a resourse as well. Going to the doctor is a resource. Health insurance employees a resource. Etc. We keep puttingg more and more demands on the resources and...want prices to fall? Do you get it?
mgarfias 5y ago
There’s different kinds. IIRC the cheap stuff and Walmart is just that, cheap. It’s fast acting, and varies in how it reacts in the body. Our real issue here is that there is absolutely no incentives to control costs. You’d think our ins companies would do it, but I’m practice, they end up negotiating sweet deals with the drug manufacturers. say med X @ $1000/mo msrp, but the ins companies negotiate it down to $400/mo. The drug company makes out like a bandit, and the ins people get kick backs for buying from the drug co, and passes on the costs to the insurance buyers.
- RHSeeger 5y ago
  > It’s fast acting, and varies in how it reacts in the body. I believe they offer R (short acting / 2-5h), N (medium), and L (long acting / 24h). The problem with the older insulins isn't so much that they're faster, it's that they're less "specific" (from my experience). A newer short acting insulin (Apidpra, etc) has a spike in the 15-30 minute range and the spike is steep and the tail (while up to 5 hours) is low. Whereas R peaks in the 30m-1h range and the peak is low and the tail is much higher. As such, you need to plan ahead much better for your eating. It's frustrating, but not horrible. The N and L have similar problems (L is the reverse, where you want a tail equal to the spike, but it isn't). The newer insulins a just much more convenient and require a lot less planning of what you eat and when... and not as close an eye on your blood.
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    If that's actually the case that puts all the "You're literally killing us with expensive insulin prices" people in a very negative light. At best they're ill-informed, at worst they're being intentionally deceptive to achieve political aims.
    - RHSeeger 5y ago
      What you've said is true. Refusing to use the older insulins is what is killing people. Having to use the older insulins is shitty, and it shouldn't be happening, but it's not the thing that's killing people. However, actually _saying_ that tends to get people up in arms, harassing you about how it how it shouldn't be necessary for people to use the older insulins, and how the newer insulins shouldn't cost what they do. Even though everyone actually agrees with them and they're arguing against a point that nobody it actually trying to make. It is... frustrating trying to get people to understand that you agree with them, but you're talking about something different. I had this exact discussion with one such person yesterday, and I was trying to explain that they are sabotaging their own goals by misrepresenting the issues. And that I WANT them to succeed in changing things, but they're making it harder to do so. Edit: You're already being downvoted for stating something that is obviously and undeniably true, because people are not bothering to understand what you're saying. I'm sorry for that.
relax88 5y ago
It’s the same reason why health care costs are out of control in general. It’s a for-profit system where literally every cog from drug company to pharmacist has an incentive to separate you from your money.
- jcampbell1 5y ago
  The entire hamburger market is for profit, but that isn’t a problem as I can buy good hamburgers at many different price points. The issue is that the industry is controlled by 1% of the population who have exclusive rights to decide what you buy, and a government agency that limits the hell out of who can sell anything in the name of safety. When Europeans can pick from 5 different spring loaded epinephrine injectors and Americans can only legally buy one from a specific manufacturer, of course Americans pay 5x as much. In plenty of places around the world you can buy all humulin you want without a doctor or the FDA for $30 vial.
  - relax88 5y ago
    If Hamburgers were required to survive I’m sure you would see the same problems. If the state was the single largest negotiator for purchasing hamburgers and representing tens of millions of people odds are you would have more competitive hamburger supply bids.

by skohan 5y ago

What's the actual situation there? I have read that cheap insulin for example is available at WallMart, but for some reason the price of insulin seems to be a huge issue.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

chiefalchemist 5y ago

The situation is that Type 2 Diabetes has raised the demand for insulin. More demand raises prices. The thing we can't talk about without risking cancellation is that nearly all Type 2 Diabetes is preventable. In other words, the choices of the many have a significant negative impact on those (i.e., Type 1'ers) who don't really have a choice.

chiefalchemist 5y ago
Down voted (faux cancelled) as expected. For stating fact and truth? God bless you.
mgarfias 5y ago
Our food system is sure rigged to make us fat. But then, in my case, what was it that triggered the t2d? Was it the family genetics (both parents are t2d in their old age), the over abundance of sugar in the std American diet, the stress caused by abusive relationships (parents suck, plus ex wife made my life a living hell), or the adrenal tumor? I’ll never know and I’m stuck with it.
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  Two of three you have control over. Some might even agrue epigenetics says three of three. Diet. Exercise. Etc. All known to change T2D.
skohan 5y ago
Do you have a source on the scarcity claim? My understanding was that insulin is incredibly cheap to produce.
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  Never claimed scarcity. Only that as demand has increased - and it has significantly - so has price. It's basic economics. Unless there are additional economies of scale from that multiple then prices are going to increase. This isn't about insulin. It's simple economics.
dekhn 5y ago
the increased demand for insulin is not why the price is higher. Insulin is made in massive facilities in large batch runs. Making 5X to 10X is basically cost of materials, which haven't really increased enough to justify the price increase. This is (mostly likely) a rent-seeking situation where a few providers who are allowed in the market are milking it for all the profit they can.
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  > This is (mostly likely) a rent-seeking situation where a few providers who are allowed in the market are milking it for all the profit they can. That is also known as demand. They do because they can.
  - skohan 5y ago
    Many of your comments reflect a misunderstanding of basic economics
    - chiefalchemist 5y ago
      I'm the downvotee. I think they understand economics. Who doesn't? What they refuse to admit is: 1) Healthcare is a limited resource, like anything else. 2) Prevention, which few if any "leaders" highlight, is a viable alternative to healthcare price increases. Are there there some nefarious undercurrents? Yes, of course. But to blame all our ills - and remove diet, lifestyle, etc. - on ever increasing demand only makes the current system stronger. People who believe they have no control aren't part of the solution.
      - skohan 5y ago
        I recommend reading up on the laws of supply and demand.
Teknoman117 5y ago
the EU has twice as many diabetics as the United States yet they have no "shortage" or "demand" related problems. Our situation has nothing to do with demand and everything to do with corporate greed. Many western European countries empower their governments to set upper bounds on the costs of medication to reduce the ability of pharma-bros to make disgusting amounts of personal wealth off the suffering of others.
hourislate 5y ago
I think we all understand that Type II is preventable but I don't think that's the main focus here. There are plenty of folks who have Type I that can't afford Insulin and have to ration it causing harm and additional costs in healthcare. It's slow mass murder for Type I diabetics who can't afford their medicine. If you believe that it is a supply and demand issue why does the same Insulin cost 80% less in a country like Canada and before you say it's subsidized, it isn't. An American can buy it for substantially less if they can get a prescription from a Canadian doctor.
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  > There are plenty of folks who have Type I that can't afford Insulin and have to ration it causing harm and additional costs in healthcare Exactly. The preventable T2D is driving up demand (read: prices) for both T1D and T2D. I don't know about Canada. I do know about supply and demand. We all do. In the context of healthcare it makes no sense that ppl abuse their health and then expect prices to fall.
  - hourislate 5y ago
    What if I were to tell you the the Insulin for Type II diabetes is $35 at Walmart and the Insulin for Type I is $380-$500. By your reasoning shouldn't it all be expensive? What you fail to consider it that the company that controls the particular type of Insulin that Type I diabetics require is charging 80% less in Canada than in the USA with everything else equal. Do you get it?
    - chiefalchemist 5y ago
      Manufacturing - not just the product - is a resourse as well. Going to the doctor is a resource. Health insurance employees a resource. Etc. We keep puttingg more and more demands on the resources and...want prices to fall? Do you get it?

mgarfias 5y ago

There’s different kinds. IIRC the cheap stuff and Walmart is just that, cheap. It’s fast acting, and varies in how it reacts in the body. Our real issue here is that there is absolutely no incentives to control costs. You’d think our ins companies would do it, but I’m practice, they end up negotiating sweet deals with the drug manufacturers. say med X @ $1000/mo msrp, but the ins companies negotiate it down to $400/mo. The drug company makes out like a bandit, and the ins people get kick backs for buying from the drug co, and passes on the costs to the insurance buyers.

RHSeeger 5y ago
> It’s fast acting, and varies in how it reacts in the body. I believe they offer R (short acting / 2-5h), N (medium), and L (long acting / 24h). The problem with the older insulins isn't so much that they're faster, it's that they're less "specific" (from my experience). A newer short acting insulin (Apidpra, etc) has a spike in the 15-30 minute range and the spike is steep and the tail (while up to 5 hours) is low. Whereas R peaks in the 30m-1h range and the peak is low and the tail is much higher. As such, you need to plan ahead much better for your eating. It's frustrating, but not horrible. The N and L have similar problems (L is the reverse, where you want a tail equal to the spike, but it isn't). The newer insulins a just much more convenient and require a lot less planning of what you eat and when... and not as close an eye on your blood.
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  If that's actually the case that puts all the "You're literally killing us with expensive insulin prices" people in a very negative light. At best they're ill-informed, at worst they're being intentionally deceptive to achieve political aims.
  - RHSeeger 5y ago
    What you've said is true. Refusing to use the older insulins is what is killing people. Having to use the older insulins is shitty, and it shouldn't be happening, but it's not the thing that's killing people. However, actually _saying_ that tends to get people up in arms, harassing you about how it how it shouldn't be necessary for people to use the older insulins, and how the newer insulins shouldn't cost what they do. Even though everyone actually agrees with them and they're arguing against a point that nobody it actually trying to make. It is... frustrating trying to get people to understand that you agree with them, but you're talking about something different. I had this exact discussion with one such person yesterday, and I was trying to explain that they are sabotaging their own goals by misrepresenting the issues. And that I WANT them to succeed in changing things, but they're making it harder to do so. Edit: You're already being downvoted for stating something that is obviously and undeniably true, because people are not bothering to understand what you're saying. I'm sorry for that.

relax88 5y ago

It’s the same reason why health care costs are out of control in general. It’s a for-profit system where literally every cog from drug company to pharmacist has an incentive to separate you from your money.

jcampbell1 5y ago
The entire hamburger market is for profit, but that isn’t a problem as I can buy good hamburgers at many different price points. The issue is that the industry is controlled by 1% of the population who have exclusive rights to decide what you buy, and a government agency that limits the hell out of who can sell anything in the name of safety. When Europeans can pick from 5 different spring loaded epinephrine injectors and Americans can only legally buy one from a specific manufacturer, of course Americans pay 5x as much. In plenty of places around the world you can buy all humulin you want without a doctor or the FDA for $30 vial.
- relax88 5y ago
  If Hamburgers were required to survive I’m sure you would see the same problems. If the state was the single largest negotiator for purchasing hamburgers and representing tens of millions of people odds are you would have more competitive hamburger supply bids.