11 ms·

Ask HN: How to grow after 10 years in the industry?

127 points by theory_of_10_1 5y ago

Hey! - I've been working for around 10 years - half of that was as a software engineer and the other half as a VP of Engineering - I am good with people and I really love my industry, I don't consider myself at work - I make something like 65k after taxes - I live outside the states (not a US citizen) but I've been working directly with US companies (international contractor) for the last 7 years - I have a family, 2 kids and my wife is pregnant I love my work, love my team. I really enjoy it When I look back at the last 3 years, I don't see a clear growth. I try to do things in the right way, go deeper with what I do (read books, and articles) and improve my skills I feel that my career is steady and not growing fast enough at this time I am not sure about how to move forward, but I am thinking about: - should I look for a new adventure with some real challenges? - should I stay and keep growing myself? - am I underpaid? I mean, will I be able to get a better salary if I find a better fit? - should I pursue a master's degree? I appreciate your feedback and help!

tsjq 5y ago
You're severely underpaid. Yes, indeed pursue a master's degree. Definitely add an MBA also to your arsenal. Take risks. Diversify. Be ready to fail, to fall, and rise from ashes. Do you have second/ passive income to pay bills & rent irrespective of your paychecks ?
- onion2k 5y ago
  You're severely underpaid. You can't judge everywhere against US developer wages. The poster doesn't say where they're posting from, so we can't really tell if 65k (presumably USD) is particularly good or bad for where they live. Here in the UK, 65k USD would be a fairly typical senior developer salary. Maybe even a little higher than average for people outside of London. If they could get a role employed by a US company rather than one that's outsourcing then it'd be fair to say they're underpaid, but there could be a whole lot of reasons why that might not be reasonable or even possible.
  - theory_of_10_1 5y ago
    I work directly with a US company. 65k USD is a great salary if I compared it with local wages in non-tech fields but really an ok salary for my position. I have friends who got paid more Money is important, but it's not my only motivation
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
    He also said 65k AFTER taxes. So he likely makes 80-100k.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  Thanks! I have a Mini-MBA from a popular business school. I feel that I have enough business skills from my mini-mba I don't have a passive income but working on it
- codegeek 5y ago
  Just to clarify, OP said 65K after taxes. Depending on the country they live in, it could be an easy 25-40% tax. So pretax can get close to 100K.
  - theory_of_10_1 5y ago
    around 15% where I live
- hoffspot 5y ago
  Eh. For managing only 15 engineers in a non US market, 65k might be the going rate. If the OP is money driven, join a big firm with the resources to double their salary. Given the current talent market, they should be able to easily make that happen based on their ability to get the proper visa. Of course they may have to sacrifice a great degree of autonomy and job satisfaction to make that happen. Only they can decide if that tradeoff is worth it. Titles mean nothing, work experience and ability to contribute is everything. I'm a VP, have 20+ years of experience, and manage an engineering team of over 250 people. Different animals certainly.
- throwawaynumber 5y ago
  he's paid more than almost all tech workers and developers in the 1st world, who also typically have .... zero passive income. You live in an elite bubble full of rich Americans I suspect.
hackerstyle 5y ago
Master might keep you busy for 1-2 years
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  How do you feel about Master in AI?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - muzani 5y ago
    Looking at current technical advances, it seems like taking a masters in electronics engineering if you want to build apps. Sure, it's well paid, it's great mental exercise, and good prestige. But it's fairly unlikely you'll be working in that field as opposed to just connecting to AI via an API. For personal development, yes. As a career move, probably not.
zn44 5y ago
My solution after 8 years in industry was to join an early stage startup as technical co-founder. It has been most challenging, difficult and satisfying experience by far compared to anything else I've done before. I feel i've grown a lot both professionally and personally.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  Will anyone be willing to have a remote co-founder? I have a feeling that I would need to travel and relocate to find a co-founder with a solid business idea
  - zn44 5y ago
    After covid sure, I have friends starting fully remote distributed startups over last few months
giantg2 5y ago
I have a masters and I think it was a complete waste of time and money. It has not helped me at all at work nor with salary.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  can you please provide more details? what did you study?
  - giantg2 5y ago
    I have a masters in information science and work as a developer. The course work was not that different from my comp sci undergrad.
    - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
      I've read that and MBA looks better than an MS. This is also interesting to me because I've been kicking around getting one or the other. MBA I guess is the route to go.
      - lentil_soup 5y ago
        deeply depends on what you want to do with it and the knowledge you might acquire. If you want to go towards the business and/or management side of things an MBA might make sense. But for a developer an MBA would be very strange on a CV.
- anyfoo 5y ago
  Counterpoint: I worked as a developer before I had my masters, and a lot of what I learned in University, often things I would not really have thought to go deeply into them myself, opened up new worlds to this day. I considered myself "technically competent" before and thought I could learn everything where it comes up, but past a certain level there are aspects to development that just are just really hard to absorb if you don't have the (hard, gritty) theoretical and mathematical foundation.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
You grow by knowing more without having to think first. That means that your first ideas are better ideas, and you arrive at solid solutions faster. This applies in the small (writing a few lines of code) and in the large (designing an architecture).
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  good way to put it, I like how you phrased it
softwaredoug 5y ago
You'll grow more as a producer[1] of know-how, rather than just a consumer of other's knowledge. People who _really_ know something can teach others through blogging, speaking. Or they can synthesize their knowledge into working projects that capture an aspect of the problem. The act of synthesizing and adding to a body of knowledge reinforces your own understanding, and forces you to stay up to date. Instead of asking "where do I go to grow", think "what can I contribute?" "what can I teach?"... If money is also a priority, then find the intersection of that and what pays well (which luckily isn't that hard as a dev). 1 - By "producer" I mean an evangelizer, synthesizer, teacher, not just an "inventor" of brand new ideas
- stonecharioteer 5y ago
  Not OP but you bring up something interesting. I'm nearing 10 years of exp and I am faced with a rather unique role. I can join Twilio as a Developer Evangelist. I'm a good developer, I enjoy coding but I also love teaching, blogging, and mentoring. This would be a dream role, but does it close off other opportunities to me? I am slightly disillusioned with enterprise software because of how chock-full of politics these places are. I'm too old for the early stage startup scene, so I'm wondering whether this would be a good opportunity. What do you see as the roadmap for someone who specializes in teaching software development, and being an advocate?
  - cweill 5y ago
    If you could take that job and leverage it to build your personal brand (blog, YouTube channel) I'd agree it's a dream job! The next best thing would be working in a research lab where you get to publish or speak under your own name.
    - stonecharioteer 5y ago
      I'm mainly concerned about bouncing back as a developer should this not pan out.
      - 5y ago
muzani 5y ago
If you could be the best in the world at something, what would it be? Let's ignore market for now. There's a lot of well paid jobs, and it's easier when you're the best option for it. What do you love about your work now? 5 years as a VP of engineering is impressive for someone with a total of 10 years experience. Are you a great technical leader? Do you enjoy systems? Maybe list down the things that you're happy with doing, and things that you're able to do which others hate doing.
jf22 5y ago
I enjoy growing my non-technical skills and learning how to work with people. Code is easy compared to the politics of a bureaucracy.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  any particular resource or starting point?
aprdm 5y ago
What growth is expected for someone who has being VP of Engineering? That's as close as high as you can go, no? Or was it a small company with just you and a few others?
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  it's a small company. We have 15 engineers working on few products
  - cgh 5y ago
    My advice is to join a large company (50,000+ employees) as they offer considerably more room for growth. Your career will go in unexpected directions thanks to all the options you’ll have. And you’ll make more money.
    - opk 5y ago
      Depends what you enjoy. If you want to be a manager then yes. But if you prefer to stay technical, a small company often has a much nicer atmosphere and less bureaucratic rubbish.
nickd2001 5y ago
Sounds like you're already well on the way to "a new adventure with some real challenges" because you also mentioned your wife is pregnant. ;) But seriously, maybe wait till your 3rd little one is 2 or 3 before making any major career changes? I did a master's, it was well worth it for interesting parts of comp sci, and definitely opens some doors in terms of getting interviews. Not essential though. I did mine part-time. Not sure if its worth doing full-time as a more mature student.
- ssss11 5y ago
  I need to second this ^ there’s nothing harder than a new job (let alone a challenging one!) with a new born. Maybe take a couple of years to really consider what the next move is before doing it. Speak with recruiters, find out what your role will pay at a similar company where you are, what other adjacent roles would pay and whether you’d get a look in, talk about your options for other industries or roles you’re interested in but not qualified for, hell even go for interviews for practice if you think you can (I’m awful at that but people have recommended to me before)
  - redisman 5y ago
    Depends how far along she is. I changed to a less stressful and better paid and better leave job about 4 months before birth and it was a great move. I also went from 0 to 4 weeks of parental leave which I didn’t even know at the time
- pnutjam 5y ago
  I have 6 kids, 7 is on the way. I have changed jobs when my wife is pregnant. If you have no parental bonding leave, it's not big deal. I had no leave with my 1st 5 kids and 2 weeks with my 6th. My current company has 6 weeks, so I'm incentivized to stick around. They treat me pretty well overall. Find something you like and keep at it, since 2001, I've gone from: helpdesk > pc /network tech > network admin > system admin (windows) > system admin (linux) > sr. sysadmin (linux). Unfortunately I've never had a decent raise without changing jobs.
  - 5y ago
RandomLensman 5y ago
1) Examine what it is you are really missing: you say you love your work and the team and it brings you joy. That is not so common. So maybe it is more about a new project or some lateral things that could be accomplished within the existing setup? 2) Not sure there is a (good) relationship between fit and salary. Some high salaries have a reason and those reasons might not be so pretty. 3) Masters. My experience is that folks opting for a masters later in their career tend to often have one of two things in mind: (a) some move towards executive/different career path, which then tends to mean MBA with the respective networking; or (b) some change in the "underlying", i.e. trying to add more skills that are somewhat different to the existing
- sedeki 5y ago
  Not contradicting what you wrote per se, but a master's degree in a European context usually does not mean an MBA. And also tends to be quite common to get a master's/MSc while you're at it.
  - RandomLensman 5y ago
    Agreed. I meant it more in terms of what I see people do after the first 10 years working or so
eric4smith 5y ago
Gonna say something that might trigger you. You’ll never move ahead working for someone else. And I just don’t mean money. I also mean satisfaction. You have to consider productizing what you do to curb your dissatisfaction. Yes, some people are fine working all their lives and enjoy where they are. But it sounds like you want to go further. Make a plan with your life that will buy you more freedom. Freedom and time is worth more than money. But it comes at a high cost with up front work. P.S. do the hard work now when the kids are little but spend quality time with them not quantity time. As your career grows you will have incredibly fulfilling times with them when they begin to understand the world. Because by then, you would have purchased more freedom.
- FinanceAnon 5y ago
  Nothing triggers me like someone starting a post with "Gonna say something that might trigger you."
- gmadsen 5y ago
  really depends. I do applied research for AV. I have no desire to fill my time with the BS of funding and executive duties. I get paid very well to be technical, and thats how I prefer it.
  - eric4smith 5y ago
    Funding and executive duties are what would take away your freedom. There are literally a thousand other ways without going the VC route. The society is pretty dysfunctional that a talented person such as yourself think that’s that’s the only way out.
    - quickthrower2 5y ago
      You mentioned productising what you do. I take that to mean consulting of the sort where you go in and charge $10k or whatever for an X. You do some work but there is no talk of either how many hours or who is physically doing the work. They are paying for a problem to be solved. I am attracted to this idea because to “build” your MVP you pretty much need just your expertise and a PowerPoint deck.
frankbreetz 5y ago
I recently finished the OMSCS program through Georgia Tech. When I started I had a 6 month old, and when I finished, I had 3 year old and 1.5 year olds (program took 2.5 years). I have a pretty low requirements job, so I was able to get away with doing a considerable amount of it doing work hours, but there was a lot of late nights and weekends too. So, it is possible, but whatever you do make sure your wife is onboard and set expectations. It has definitely helped me out getting job interviews. It seems like the only way to a considerably higher salary would be to either move to the US or work for a US company remotely. I am in the process of moving position for a 50% raise, so I would say it paid off for me. You have much more experience then I do, so if you are thinking about moving to the US maybe apply to a few jobs(even if you don't want them) and see what kind of offers you can get. If the offers are good enough you can make the move when you are ready, if they aren't what you are expecting maybe look into a masters.
Clubber 5y ago
> should I look for a new adventure with some real challenges? Yes, at least always be open to it and looking for it. You need to meet new people who have an itch that you can scratch. People with deep pockets. > should I stay and keep growing myself? If you are happy with where you are and what you are doing, sure, but it sounds like you are ready to move on. You'll grow more with more experience at different companies / systems. You definitely need to learn to build system from scratch if you haven't already. > am I underpaid? I mean, will I be able to get a better salary if I find a better fit? Yes, probably by about 25-100%, depending on market. > should I pursue a master's degree? Probably not. You learn way more on the streets. Not having a Bachelor's is sometimes a blocker to bigger things, but Master's, not so much. You get a much better education in the field.
thejosh 5y ago
Country helps!
svilen_dobrev 5y ago
heh. i am only recently moving into such vp-of-engineering role after 30+ years of doing everything softwarish that is not managerial-or-political, by any level/title. All the possible technical stuff plus mentoring, teaching, philosophy, methodology, cultures, "health"... Why now? May be too late.. but managerial/political stuff has always kept me apart. esp. over-bureaucratizing the "process" towards people. The doubly-faced "you are not a cog but you are part of this machine" Where can you go if you are already there, succesfully? Probably sideways, and much deeper. Growth doesn't need to be up. (what is "up" anyway?). It can be as size or area or volume.. or number of alternative worldviews/mindsets.. Ask yourself, what is carrer? "growth"? And, what is "interesting"? in your terms.. the answers might surprise you. Degrees do not matter, except @ some bureaucratic places aka government. But the ways of learning, which you can learn while doing it, do matter.. And it's same with teaching/mentoring - what you learn by doing it, noone can ever tell you. Mind you, half might be 'seems i dont know enough of this to explain it to others' have fun
okareaman 5y ago
I struggle with this too. The best I can come up with is find a problem that one person can solve that would do the world some good and solve it, with software if I have to.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  I am not excited about any problem as of right now to solve
itsmefaz 5y ago
Your growth is attractive! For the first 5years, you worked as a Software Engineer. Assuming a good track record, you could have been a Senior or Staff engineer within that time frame. Then, how did you transition to VP within the next 5?
- quantumofalpha 5y ago
  Titles don't mean much without knowing the type of company that assigned them. Every second guy is a VP at a bank - it means merely something like 'senior SWE' in banking, often you wouldn't even have any reports. 5yoe is reasonable time to reach it. Another example - anyone can be a CEO of own company. But once you get acquihired by FAANG suddenly you're just a PM for your startup's team.
  - jsjsbdkj 5y ago
    This. I currently work with a CTO whc has less experience than me, because he founded the company, he's CTO by default.
  - itsmefaz 5y ago
    Ok. If he was in FAANG companies the author would be effectively around Staff or Senior engineer caliber.
- digianarchist 5y ago
  It's a 15 person company I'm surprised they have VP titles.
  - exdsq 5y ago
    A start-up I left a few years back had 4 employees - CEO, CTO, Principle Engineer, and me (bog-standard dev). People like fancy titles :)
  - liketochill 5y ago
    They matter when the company gets bought and all of the sudden you are a VP at a public ally traded company worth billions
shuki 5y ago
Lots of good advice around. My Personal story might have a few takeaways for you. Started as a sw developer in India, moved to US progressed as technical expert on the product. Moved back to India and became Manager. In 3 years as a manager realized how much I liked coding. I am at best an average developer, but the satisfaction I got after fixing a small defect was priceless. By this time I've had 15 years of "experience" in industry. I did my masters and now working as a full stack developer. Couldn't be happier. Take a month off your job. Find out what you really like. You can read through all the replies let them brew, but the final answer will come from within. Trust your gut and take the risk. May the force be with you !!!
- rasikjain 5y ago
  Hi Shuki, I am interested in talking to you. you profile does not have contact info. How can I reach you? My contact is in my profile.
  - shuki 5y ago
    Looks like your DM's on twitter are off. hit me up @appscurry
- laurent92 5y ago
  I abhorred being a developer because it’s like being a factory worker. I then created my company, have 2-3 people under me, I’m 70% coding and customers are throwing money at us. I’m still a developer, but super happy through work. I believe the difference is leeway in how I can organize my schedule, and the 30% variety which allows me to speak to humans instead of computers. I was always denied promotions, I’m from the generation where cool workplaces promoted only women, so it was very unfair. I wanted to be on the path to become PO. And given how fast the startup I created reached $1m ARR, I confirm I’m satisfyingly able to PO and the lost promotions were just plain old gender preferences of workplaces. I now love my work. Speaking to humans (and not through chat) was my need, I’ve told it to every employer. So yes, find what you need and move heaven and earth until you get it, may the force be with you.
varispeed 5y ago
You will never get wealthy through employment, because lazy governments use tax on salaries as a proxy to tax big corporations. So you work hard and get very little in exchange. Wealthy people live off passive income, dividends, capital gains and so on. So if you want to take a jump, you need to become an expert on stock trading and start investing. Then maybe after 10 or so years you could retire unless the government move goal posts again and tax the small guy more.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  I traded for a while, didn't make profit so I invest now long term
jokethrowaway 5y ago
I haven't heard of someone being a VP of Engineering after just 5 years of SE and 65k after taxes after 10 years sounds a little low. I think the main problem is that a few companies have very challenging technical work and are happy to pay really high salaries (think OpenAI specialists, a few teams at Google / Netflix pushing the boundaries forward), the rest need relatively trivial solutions and they will pay higher than average (think most people working at FANGs on stuff they're overqualified for) or average / lower than average (think most startups, small companies). After a while, you won't grow technically in most companies and you won't advance the state of technology. Some people just keep contributing the same stuff over and over until they die (1), some people specialise in some technically obscure niches and charge a premium for that (2), some people decide to become people managers (3) and eventually become CTO. It doesn't seem like you're happy with (1), you already did (3), I would say you have too much people experience to go back and do (2). A master's degree in something you like won't be particularly useful at your level, it could be an expensive gift to yourself. If I were you I would just start my own business: you are technical, you are a manager; the next skill to learn could be business. Other options include looking for a CTO role in an early stage startup, or doing the interview-algorithm-memorisation-game to join a FANG. Early stage startups and FANGs will likely not be very nice places to be in terms of politics though, so you may not be as happy as you're now. Best of luck
debarshri 5y ago
Last year, I was in same situation as you. I don't have wife and kids per say. There are two things you could do - may be a tech co-founder in startup that would add jet fuel to your career. Jet fuel because either you will crash and burn or go to the next level. However I wouldn't recommend that to you as you have a family and it is difficult to do that with kids and wife. The other thing I would say is, save up some money and invest in thing other than tech. In my situation, I wanted to own a restaurant, so I build a cafe in the Rishikesh, India. That gave me a side mission in life, I became more content with my career situation and pushed me to be better and happier.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  I founded a startup before and lost everything I had, but it helped me grow faster than anything else, I think about it as an investment in my career What I learned is that I need to have something I understand pretty good (biz side) and know how to grow, in addition to expert co-founder(s) I thought a lot about starting something in non-tech world, but I go back and think that I must invest my knowledge in tech and work on something that I understand and can success in
quadcore 5y ago
If you are happy, dont touch anything, would be my internet advice.
ramesh31 5y ago
> am I underpaid? I mean, will I be able to get a better salary if I find a better fit? Definitely. I'm not sure where you're from, but if you're working for a US firm they should be paying you US wages. I could understand if you were just contracting out piece work, but a VP engineering salary should be double that minimum. The employment market is really hot right now, so just spend some time seeing what's out there.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > I'm not sure where you're from, but if you're working for a US firm they should be paying you US wages. Some politicians abroad are bragging that their engineers are worth 50K less than the US in their sales pitch. [0] [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/4178326/amazon-vancouver-tech-workers-pay/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4178326/amazon-vancouver-tech-wor...
- opk 5y ago
  > I'm not sure where you're from, but if you're working for a US firm they should be paying you US wages. What? The only thing that counts is where you live and pay taxes. If in Europe $65K/€54K after tax is really very decent.
  - emptysongglass 5y ago
    Why? The company is US, they should pay you what they can bear to pay your peers in the US. SWEs are criminally underpaid in Europe. I should know, I am one. Most of my salary gets hoovered up before it reaches my pocket and the only "out" is paying a bucket load of my salary into a pension I can't enjoy until I'm almost dead.
- lupire 5y ago
  OP got the ego title instead of pay.
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dism 5y ago
First of all - If you are happy - everyone around is happy or content at least ( except teenagers - you cannot do it right for them - so don't try ) The thing with 'growth' is that tiny little man inside your head you were raised with - ignore him think like a cave man - if the mammal(current stuff) still exist until I longer/resign, I'll will stay If this mammal extinct(e.g. program language) - evolve You have everything - which makes really (life)happy Life is not your Job - Its your Life If a nice opportunity looks around, peek into it, maybe its worth a change choose wisely at this point If you are sad everyone else is sad, maybe you lose everything because of sadness To my person I work roughly 20 years in the industry - as a networking guy - raised & built networks you use I did the unwisely way Took a unwisely chosen because of indoctrinated emotions and lost everything If you stay in between - make a clear mind first
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  makes sense, especially that I like to plan my moves carefully. Not saying that I don't take risks, but I take risks knowing where I am heading. hate surprises
ChuckMcM 5y ago
All good questions to ask! First some context, there is no "win" in life. it is the journey that you will look back on and either be proud of or regret. And understanding that, understand that everyone's journey is different and so it is nearly impossible to compare yourself to others and their journeys and say with certainty your are doing 'better' or 'worse' than them. It is one of the few cases where it really is "all about you" :-) So should you keep growing yourself? Absolutely. It is how you don't get bored and how you move to the next stage of the journey. Some of the choices you make will be less satisfying and being in the practice of always growing and learning you may find, as I have, that you don't feel 'trapped' by them, instead you just change direction. Are you underpaid? Who knows? I have known people with the title "VP Engineering" who make literally three times what you are making as a base salary and have a bonus program besides. Not all of them liked their life. One in particular was constantly fighting depression and guilt over how little time they spent with their family and how their non-work relationships suffered. Their life had plenty of money but not enough joy. So it is a balance. My philosophy has always been if I'm making enough to cover my needs (current and projected), and I've got a life outside of work that is rewarding and enjoyable, then I don't need to change things (at least in compensation). In my career more money has always come with more expectations and more responsibility, which manifests itself as stress when things are not going as they need to. I have turned down raises and promotions when I knew they wouldn't increase the quality of my life and would likely decrease it. Should you pursue a Master's degree? If you have the resources and time, it helps with flexibility later. I have known folks who "grew up" in a company, started as an undergrad and were looking for a new job 20 years later. And their experience gave them a masters or PhD level of experience in their area of expertise, but without the certificate any new job was going to assume their expertise was over stated and there would be a 1 - 3 year 'ramp' period at the new job where the new employer got to internalize if they really were as expert as they thought/said. From a technical perspective, if you're an engineer and get an MBa or business degree that makes you both more valuable and able to 'span' more of an organization. There is only so much you can accomplish as an individual, being able to bring a team together under a single vision gives you a huge boost in what you can get done. To do that you have to be able to talk to everyone in the concepts they understand so that you can clearly articulate a vision they can then help you execute. Lastly, one trick that a college counselor taught me is to imagine you are doing your dream job or living your dream life. Now write a fictional history of that persons life, like someone reading an introduction of you before a TED talk. Start with the end point and work backwards in the history to where you are right now. It can give you ideas about what your next steps should be.
sbahr001 5y ago
Here is my 2 cents: 1. It looks like you have been a successful software engineer and were able to move up. 2. From the sound of it you hit the mastery portion of S learning curve in terms of technical ability. So no matter how much you "educate" yourself you will never hit the level of growth you experienced when you were younger. So staying current is the best part you can do in this section as that is how the tech world works. 3. There is a new skill set that you might still be in the early stages of and that is as a VP of Engineering/Managing people are getting the best of your team and being able to challenge yourself is this department. Technically no two companies are the same so this is a place where you can constantly challenge yourself. So changing the place you work at can lead to a lot of growth here, or possibly acting as a consultant for companies that don't need a "VP of Engineering" quiet yet. 3b. If being in management doesn't really interest you and you want to be an engineer, then working in another industry might keep you excited, like becoming a game programmer/iOT programmer, AI, Architecture, etc. 4. Could be changing careers all together because you don't feel challenged enough, you can use your current job to help fund your family and the learning for that new career. 5. Terms of Salary is all subjective to where you work and what the place you work. I technically take a 50k+ pay cut because I work for a small company. The current job gives me a lot of flexibility, less stress than I have ever had to deal with before. That piece of mind and relaxation is more important to me given some medical issues I deal with from time to time. So yes you can be underpaid, but is the great team and the place you work at worth it? The end of the day these are my 2 cents on the matter, but what I will say at the end is to do what really makes you happy. Is it family, career, challenges, etc. Finding what truly makes you happy and doing that is the best career move you can make. I would say start with that :)
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  great reply! thank you
philote 5y ago
What type of growth are you looking for? You say you are happy with your work and team, but you're also here asking for something more. What do you feel is missing? Also, what hobbies do you have? Perhaps you need to find something fun to do when you're not working and not being a dad/husband. Or maybe you need to change employment to get out of your comfort zone a bit and see what else is out there. I've found it's easy to stagnate when staying with the same company too long, though there are of course exceptions.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  - my responsibilities didn't change in years, kind of good because I am trying to be better with what I do - salary grown slowly, my colleagues got way more than me - I enjoy mentoring and leveling different team members, and also growing them and delegate task. It left me with so little (high level decision making) that I don't feel motivated enough for. I don't know what exactly I am looking for. I am happy, I am not saying otherwise, but I feel that I need to grow my knowledge where I will be able to provide more value in future the growth rate that I've been going through in the past few years is slow and I would like to learn more and be able to provide bigger value to the people/companies I work with
cryptica 5y ago
If you want to succeed in this industry. You have to constantly lie, cheat and manipulate. All the people I know who got promoted with big salaries had this in common.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  no need to grow in this case, I prefer to stay where I am rather than going to a toxic env that's one of the reasons why I like my existing company, they don't lie, pretty honest and transparent
ecmascript 5y ago
If you enjoy your work, do you really need to grow? You can always try to make things grow outside of work, like plants.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  I fear to be outdated at some point in future if I couldn't grow
deleted 5y ago
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benreesman 5y ago
I can’t speak to the family aspect from personal experience. Professionally it’s my experience that there is almost always something more challenging to attempt than what you are comfortable with, and that these challenges and the growth that comes with them can be carved up into very realistic, incremental, and achievable pieces. Good luck!

tsjq 5y ago

You're severely underpaid. Yes, indeed pursue a master's degree. Definitely add an MBA also to your arsenal. Take risks. Diversify. Be ready to fail, to fall, and rise from ashes. Do you have second/ passive income to pay bills & rent irrespective of your paychecks ?

onion2k 5y ago
You're severely underpaid. You can't judge everywhere against US developer wages. The poster doesn't say where they're posting from, so we can't really tell if 65k (presumably USD) is particularly good or bad for where they live. Here in the UK, 65k USD would be a fairly typical senior developer salary. Maybe even a little higher than average for people outside of London. If they could get a role employed by a US company rather than one that's outsourcing then it'd be fair to say they're underpaid, but there could be a whole lot of reasons why that might not be reasonable or even possible.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  I work directly with a US company. 65k USD is a great salary if I compared it with local wages in non-tech fields but really an ok salary for my position. I have friends who got paid more Money is important, but it's not my only motivation
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  He also said 65k AFTER taxes. So he likely makes 80-100k.
theory_of_10_1 5y ago
Thanks! I have a Mini-MBA from a popular business school. I feel that I have enough business skills from my mini-mba I don't have a passive income but working on it
codegeek 5y ago
Just to clarify, OP said 65K after taxes. Depending on the country they live in, it could be an easy 25-40% tax. So pretax can get close to 100K.
- theory_of_10_1 5y ago
  around 15% where I live
hoffspot 5y ago
Eh. For managing only 15 engineers in a non US market, 65k might be the going rate. If the OP is money driven, join a big firm with the resources to double their salary. Given the current talent market, they should be able to easily make that happen based on their ability to get the proper visa. Of course they may have to sacrifice a great degree of autonomy and job satisfaction to make that happen. Only they can decide if that tradeoff is worth it. Titles mean nothing, work experience and ability to contribute is everything. I'm a VP, have 20+ years of experience, and manage an engineering team of over 250 people. Different animals certainly.
throwawaynumber 5y ago
he's paid more than almost all tech workers and developers in the 1st world, who also typically have .... zero passive income. You live in an elite bubble full of rich Americans I suspect.

hackerstyle 5y ago

Master might keep you busy for 1-2 years

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
How do you feel about Master in AI?
- deleted 5y ago
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- deleted 5y ago
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- muzani 5y ago
  Looking at current technical advances, it seems like taking a masters in electronics engineering if you want to build apps. Sure, it's well paid, it's great mental exercise, and good prestige. But it's fairly unlikely you'll be working in that field as opposed to just connecting to AI via an API. For personal development, yes. As a career move, probably not.

zn44 5y ago

My solution after 8 years in industry was to join an early stage startup as technical co-founder. It has been most challenging, difficult and satisfying experience by far compared to anything else I've done before. I feel i've grown a lot both professionally and personally.

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
Will anyone be willing to have a remote co-founder? I have a feeling that I would need to travel and relocate to find a co-founder with a solid business idea
- zn44 5y ago
  After covid sure, I have friends starting fully remote distributed startups over last few months

giantg2 5y ago

I have a masters and I think it was a complete waste of time and money. It has not helped me at all at work nor with salary.

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
can you please provide more details? what did you study?
- giantg2 5y ago
  I have a masters in information science and work as a developer. The course work was not that different from my comp sci undergrad.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
    I've read that and MBA looks better than an MS. This is also interesting to me because I've been kicking around getting one or the other. MBA I guess is the route to go.
    - lentil_soup 5y ago
      deeply depends on what you want to do with it and the knowledge you might acquire. If you want to go towards the business and/or management side of things an MBA might make sense. But for a developer an MBA would be very strange on a CV.
anyfoo 5y ago
Counterpoint: I worked as a developer before I had my masters, and a lot of what I learned in University, often things I would not really have thought to go deeply into them myself, opened up new worlds to this day. I considered myself "technically competent" before and thought I could learn everything where it comes up, but past a certain level there are aspects to development that just are just really hard to absorb if you don't have the (hard, gritty) theoretical and mathematical foundation.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

You grow by knowing more without having to think first. That means that your first ideas are better ideas, and you arrive at solid solutions faster. This applies in the small (writing a few lines of code) and in the large (designing an architecture).

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
good way to put it, I like how you phrased it

softwaredoug 5y ago

You'll grow more as a producer[1] of know-how, rather than just a consumer of other's knowledge. People who _really_ know something can teach others through blogging, speaking. Or they can synthesize their knowledge into working projects that capture an aspect of the problem. The act of synthesizing and adding to a body of knowledge reinforces your own understanding, and forces you to stay up to date. Instead of asking "where do I go to grow", think "what can I contribute?" "what can I teach?"... If money is also a priority, then find the intersection of that and what pays well (which luckily isn't that hard as a dev). 1 - By "producer" I mean an evangelizer, synthesizer, teacher, not just an "inventor" of brand new ideas

stonecharioteer 5y ago
Not OP but you bring up something interesting. I'm nearing 10 years of exp and I am faced with a rather unique role. I can join Twilio as a Developer Evangelist. I'm a good developer, I enjoy coding but I also love teaching, blogging, and mentoring. This would be a dream role, but does it close off other opportunities to me? I am slightly disillusioned with enterprise software because of how chock-full of politics these places are. I'm too old for the early stage startup scene, so I'm wondering whether this would be a good opportunity. What do you see as the roadmap for someone who specializes in teaching software development, and being an advocate?
- cweill 5y ago
  If you could take that job and leverage it to build your personal brand (blog, YouTube channel) I'd agree it's a dream job! The next best thing would be working in a research lab where you get to publish or speak under your own name.
  - stonecharioteer 5y ago
    I'm mainly concerned about bouncing back as a developer should this not pan out.
    - 5y ago

muzani 5y ago

If you could be the best in the world at something, what would it be? Let's ignore market for now. There's a lot of well paid jobs, and it's easier when you're the best option for it. What do you love about your work now? 5 years as a VP of engineering is impressive for someone with a total of 10 years experience. Are you a great technical leader? Do you enjoy systems? Maybe list down the things that you're happy with doing, and things that you're able to do which others hate doing.

jf22 5y ago

I enjoy growing my non-technical skills and learning how to work with people. Code is easy compared to the politics of a bureaucracy.

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
any particular resource or starting point?

aprdm 5y ago

What growth is expected for someone who has being VP of Engineering? That's as close as high as you can go, no? Or was it a small company with just you and a few others?

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
it's a small company. We have 15 engineers working on few products
- cgh 5y ago
  My advice is to join a large company (50,000+ employees) as they offer considerably more room for growth. Your career will go in unexpected directions thanks to all the options you’ll have. And you’ll make more money.
  - opk 5y ago
    Depends what you enjoy. If you want to be a manager then yes. But if you prefer to stay technical, a small company often has a much nicer atmosphere and less bureaucratic rubbish.

nickd2001 5y ago

Sounds like you're already well on the way to "a new adventure with some real challenges" because you also mentioned your wife is pregnant. ;) But seriously, maybe wait till your 3rd little one is 2 or 3 before making any major career changes? I did a master's, it was well worth it for interesting parts of comp sci, and definitely opens some doors in terms of getting interviews. Not essential though. I did mine part-time. Not sure if its worth doing full-time as a more mature student.

ssss11 5y ago
I need to second this ^ there’s nothing harder than a new job (let alone a challenging one!) with a new born. Maybe take a couple of years to really consider what the next move is before doing it. Speak with recruiters, find out what your role will pay at a similar company where you are, what other adjacent roles would pay and whether you’d get a look in, talk about your options for other industries or roles you’re interested in but not qualified for, hell even go for interviews for practice if you think you can (I’m awful at that but people have recommended to me before)
- redisman 5y ago
  Depends how far along she is. I changed to a less stressful and better paid and better leave job about 4 months before birth and it was a great move. I also went from 0 to 4 weeks of parental leave which I didn’t even know at the time
pnutjam 5y ago
I have 6 kids, 7 is on the way. I have changed jobs when my wife is pregnant. If you have no parental bonding leave, it's not big deal. I had no leave with my 1st 5 kids and 2 weeks with my 6th. My current company has 6 weeks, so I'm incentivized to stick around. They treat me pretty well overall. Find something you like and keep at it, since 2001, I've gone from: helpdesk > pc /network tech > network admin > system admin (windows) > system admin (linux) > sr. sysadmin (linux). Unfortunately I've never had a decent raise without changing jobs.
- 5y ago

RandomLensman 5y ago

1) Examine what it is you are really missing: you say you love your work and the team and it brings you joy. That is not so common. So maybe it is more about a new project or some lateral things that could be accomplished within the existing setup? 2) Not sure there is a (good) relationship between fit and salary. Some high salaries have a reason and those reasons might not be so pretty. 3) Masters. My experience is that folks opting for a masters later in their career tend to often have one of two things in mind: (a) some move towards executive/different career path, which then tends to mean MBA with the respective networking; or (b) some change in the "underlying", i.e. trying to add more skills that are somewhat different to the existing

sedeki 5y ago
Not contradicting what you wrote per se, but a master's degree in a European context usually does not mean an MBA. And also tends to be quite common to get a master's/MSc while you're at it.
- RandomLensman 5y ago
  Agreed. I meant it more in terms of what I see people do after the first 10 years working or so

eric4smith 5y ago

Gonna say something that might trigger you. You’ll never move ahead working for someone else. And I just don’t mean money. I also mean satisfaction. You have to consider productizing what you do to curb your dissatisfaction. Yes, some people are fine working all their lives and enjoy where they are. But it sounds like you want to go further. Make a plan with your life that will buy you more freedom. Freedom and time is worth more than money. But it comes at a high cost with up front work. P.S. do the hard work now when the kids are little but spend quality time with them not quantity time. As your career grows you will have incredibly fulfilling times with them when they begin to understand the world. Because by then, you would have purchased more freedom.

FinanceAnon 5y ago
Nothing triggers me like someone starting a post with "Gonna say something that might trigger you."
gmadsen 5y ago
really depends. I do applied research for AV. I have no desire to fill my time with the BS of funding and executive duties. I get paid very well to be technical, and thats how I prefer it.
- eric4smith 5y ago
  Funding and executive duties are what would take away your freedom. There are literally a thousand other ways without going the VC route. The society is pretty dysfunctional that a talented person such as yourself think that’s that’s the only way out.
  - quickthrower2 5y ago
    You mentioned productising what you do. I take that to mean consulting of the sort where you go in and charge $10k or whatever for an X. You do some work but there is no talk of either how many hours or who is physically doing the work. They are paying for a problem to be solved. I am attracted to this idea because to “build” your MVP you pretty much need just your expertise and a PowerPoint deck.

frankbreetz 5y ago

I recently finished the OMSCS program through Georgia Tech. When I started I had a 6 month old, and when I finished, I had 3 year old and 1.5 year olds (program took 2.5 years). I have a pretty low requirements job, so I was able to get away with doing a considerable amount of it doing work hours, but there was a lot of late nights and weekends too. So, it is possible, but whatever you do make sure your wife is onboard and set expectations. It has definitely helped me out getting job interviews. It seems like the only way to a considerably higher salary would be to either move to the US or work for a US company remotely. I am in the process of moving position for a 50% raise, so I would say it paid off for me. You have much more experience then I do, so if you are thinking about moving to the US maybe apply to a few jobs(even if you don't want them) and see what kind of offers you can get. If the offers are good enough you can make the move when you are ready, if they aren't what you are expecting maybe look into a masters.

Clubber 5y ago

> should I look for a new adventure with some real challenges? Yes, at least always be open to it and looking for it. You need to meet new people who have an itch that you can scratch. People with deep pockets. > should I stay and keep growing myself? If you are happy with where you are and what you are doing, sure, but it sounds like you are ready to move on. You'll grow more with more experience at different companies / systems. You definitely need to learn to build system from scratch if you haven't already. > am I underpaid? I mean, will I be able to get a better salary if I find a better fit? Yes, probably by about 25-100%, depending on market. > should I pursue a master's degree? Probably not. You learn way more on the streets. Not having a Bachelor's is sometimes a blocker to bigger things, but Master's, not so much. You get a much better education in the field.

thejosh 5y ago

Country helps!

svilen_dobrev 5y ago

heh. i am only recently moving into such vp-of-engineering role after 30+ years of doing everything softwarish that is not managerial-or-political, by any level/title. All the possible technical stuff plus mentoring, teaching, philosophy, methodology, cultures, "health"... Why now? May be too late.. but managerial/political stuff has always kept me apart. esp. over-bureaucratizing the "process" towards people. The doubly-faced "you are not a cog but you are part of this machine" Where can you go if you are already there, succesfully? Probably sideways, and much deeper. Growth doesn't need to be up. (what is "up" anyway?). It can be as size or area or volume.. or number of alternative worldviews/mindsets.. Ask yourself, what is carrer? "growth"? And, what is "interesting"? in your terms.. the answers might surprise you. Degrees do not matter, except @ some bureaucratic places aka government. But the ways of learning, which you can learn while doing it, do matter.. And it's same with teaching/mentoring - what you learn by doing it, noone can ever tell you. Mind you, half might be 'seems i dont know enough of this to explain it to others' have fun

okareaman 5y ago

I struggle with this too. The best I can come up with is find a problem that one person can solve that would do the world some good and solve it, with software if I have to.

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
I am not excited about any problem as of right now to solve

itsmefaz 5y ago

Your growth is attractive! For the first 5years, you worked as a Software Engineer. Assuming a good track record, you could have been a Senior or Staff engineer within that time frame. Then, how did you transition to VP within the next 5?

quantumofalpha 5y ago
Titles don't mean much without knowing the type of company that assigned them. Every second guy is a VP at a bank - it means merely something like 'senior SWE' in banking, often you wouldn't even have any reports. 5yoe is reasonable time to reach it. Another example - anyone can be a CEO of own company. But once you get acquihired by FAANG suddenly you're just a PM for your startup's team.
- jsjsbdkj 5y ago
  This. I currently work with a CTO whc has less experience than me, because he founded the company, he's CTO by default.
- itsmefaz 5y ago
  Ok. If he was in FAANG companies the author would be effectively around Staff or Senior engineer caliber.
digianarchist 5y ago
It's a 15 person company I'm surprised they have VP titles.
- exdsq 5y ago
  A start-up I left a few years back had 4 employees - CEO, CTO, Principle Engineer, and me (bog-standard dev). People like fancy titles :)
- liketochill 5y ago
  They matter when the company gets bought and all of the sudden you are a VP at a public ally traded company worth billions

shuki 5y ago

Lots of good advice around. My Personal story might have a few takeaways for you. Started as a sw developer in India, moved to US progressed as technical expert on the product. Moved back to India and became Manager. In 3 years as a manager realized how much I liked coding. I am at best an average developer, but the satisfaction I got after fixing a small defect was priceless. By this time I've had 15 years of "experience" in industry. I did my masters and now working as a full stack developer. Couldn't be happier. Take a month off your job. Find out what you really like. You can read through all the replies let them brew, but the final answer will come from within. Trust your gut and take the risk. May the force be with you !!!

rasikjain 5y ago
Hi Shuki, I am interested in talking to you. you profile does not have contact info. How can I reach you? My contact is in my profile.
- shuki 5y ago
  Looks like your DM's on twitter are off. hit me up @appscurry
laurent92 5y ago
I abhorred being a developer because it’s like being a factory worker. I then created my company, have 2-3 people under me, I’m 70% coding and customers are throwing money at us. I’m still a developer, but super happy through work. I believe the difference is leeway in how I can organize my schedule, and the 30% variety which allows me to speak to humans instead of computers. I was always denied promotions, I’m from the generation where cool workplaces promoted only women, so it was very unfair. I wanted to be on the path to become PO. And given how fast the startup I created reached $1m ARR, I confirm I’m satisfyingly able to PO and the lost promotions were just plain old gender preferences of workplaces. I now love my work. Speaking to humans (and not through chat) was my need, I’ve told it to every employer. So yes, find what you need and move heaven and earth until you get it, may the force be with you.

varispeed 5y ago

You will never get wealthy through employment, because lazy governments use tax on salaries as a proxy to tax big corporations. So you work hard and get very little in exchange. Wealthy people live off passive income, dividends, capital gains and so on. So if you want to take a jump, you need to become an expert on stock trading and start investing. Then maybe after 10 or so years you could retire unless the government move goal posts again and tax the small guy more.

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
I traded for a while, didn't make profit so I invest now long term

jokethrowaway 5y ago

I haven't heard of someone being a VP of Engineering after just 5 years of SE and 65k after taxes after 10 years sounds a little low. I think the main problem is that a few companies have very challenging technical work and are happy to pay really high salaries (think OpenAI specialists, a few teams at Google / Netflix pushing the boundaries forward), the rest need relatively trivial solutions and they will pay higher than average (think most people working at FANGs on stuff they're overqualified for) or average / lower than average (think most startups, small companies). After a while, you won't grow technically in most companies and you won't advance the state of technology. Some people just keep contributing the same stuff over and over until they die (1), some people specialise in some technically obscure niches and charge a premium for that (2), some people decide to become people managers (3) and eventually become CTO. It doesn't seem like you're happy with (1), you already did (3), I would say you have too much people experience to go back and do (2). A master's degree in something you like won't be particularly useful at your level, it could be an expensive gift to yourself. If I were you I would just start my own business: you are technical, you are a manager; the next skill to learn could be business. Other options include looking for a CTO role in an early stage startup, or doing the interview-algorithm-memorisation-game to join a FANG. Early stage startups and FANGs will likely not be very nice places to be in terms of politics though, so you may not be as happy as you're now. Best of luck

debarshri 5y ago

Last year, I was in same situation as you. I don't have wife and kids per say. There are two things you could do - may be a tech co-founder in startup that would add jet fuel to your career. Jet fuel because either you will crash and burn or go to the next level. However I wouldn't recommend that to you as you have a family and it is difficult to do that with kids and wife. The other thing I would say is, save up some money and invest in thing other than tech. In my situation, I wanted to own a restaurant, so I build a cafe in the Rishikesh, India. That gave me a side mission in life, I became more content with my career situation and pushed me to be better and happier.

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
I founded a startup before and lost everything I had, but it helped me grow faster than anything else, I think about it as an investment in my career What I learned is that I need to have something I understand pretty good (biz side) and know how to grow, in addition to expert co-founder(s) I thought a lot about starting something in non-tech world, but I go back and think that I must invest my knowledge in tech and work on something that I understand and can success in

quadcore 5y ago

If you are happy, dont touch anything, would be my internet advice.

ramesh31 5y ago

> am I underpaid? I mean, will I be able to get a better salary if I find a better fit? Definitely. I'm not sure where you're from, but if you're working for a US firm they should be paying you US wages. I could understand if you were just contracting out piece work, but a VP engineering salary should be double that minimum. The employment market is really hot right now, so just spend some time seeing what's out there.

908B64B197 5y ago
> I'm not sure where you're from, but if you're working for a US firm they should be paying you US wages. Some politicians abroad are bragging that their engineers are worth 50K less than the US in their sales pitch. [0] [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/4178326/amazon-vancouver-tech-workers-pay/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4178326/amazon-vancouver-tech-wor...
opk 5y ago
> I'm not sure where you're from, but if you're working for a US firm they should be paying you US wages. What? The only thing that counts is where you live and pay taxes. If in Europe $65K/€54K after tax is really very decent.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  Why? The company is US, they should pay you what they can bear to pay your peers in the US. SWEs are criminally underpaid in Europe. I should know, I am one. Most of my salary gets hoovered up before it reaches my pocket and the only "out" is paying a bucket load of my salary into a pension I can't enjoy until I'm almost dead.
lupire 5y ago
OP got the ego title instead of pay.

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dism 5y ago

First of all - If you are happy - everyone around is happy or content at least ( except teenagers - you cannot do it right for them - so don't try ) The thing with 'growth' is that tiny little man inside your head you were raised with - ignore him think like a cave man - if the mammal(current stuff) still exist until I longer/resign, I'll will stay If this mammal extinct(e.g. program language) - evolve You have everything - which makes really (life)happy Life is not your Job - Its your Life If a nice opportunity looks around, peek into it, maybe its worth a change choose wisely at this point If you are sad everyone else is sad, maybe you lose everything because of sadness To my person I work roughly 20 years in the industry - as a networking guy - raised & built networks you use I did the unwisely way Took a unwisely chosen because of indoctrinated emotions and lost everything If you stay in between - make a clear mind first

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
makes sense, especially that I like to plan my moves carefully. Not saying that I don't take risks, but I take risks knowing where I am heading. hate surprises

ChuckMcM 5y ago

All good questions to ask! First some context, there is no "win" in life. it is the journey that you will look back on and either be proud of or regret. And understanding that, understand that everyone's journey is different and so it is nearly impossible to compare yourself to others and their journeys and say with certainty your are doing 'better' or 'worse' than them. It is one of the few cases where it really is "all about you" :-) So should you keep growing yourself? Absolutely. It is how you don't get bored and how you move to the next stage of the journey. Some of the choices you make will be less satisfying and being in the practice of always growing and learning you may find, as I have, that you don't feel 'trapped' by them, instead you just change direction. Are you underpaid? Who knows? I have known people with the title "VP Engineering" who make literally three times what you are making as a base salary and have a bonus program besides. Not all of them liked their life. One in particular was constantly fighting depression and guilt over how little time they spent with their family and how their non-work relationships suffered. Their life had plenty of money but not enough joy. So it is a balance. My philosophy has always been if I'm making enough to cover my needs (current and projected), and I've got a life outside of work that is rewarding and enjoyable, then I don't need to change things (at least in compensation). In my career more money has always come with more expectations and more responsibility, which manifests itself as stress when things are not going as they need to. I have turned down raises and promotions when I knew they wouldn't increase the quality of my life and would likely decrease it. Should you pursue a Master's degree? If you have the resources and time, it helps with flexibility later. I have known folks who "grew up" in a company, started as an undergrad and were looking for a new job 20 years later. And their experience gave them a masters or PhD level of experience in their area of expertise, but without the certificate any new job was going to assume their expertise was over stated and there would be a 1 - 3 year 'ramp' period at the new job where the new employer got to internalize if they really were as expert as they thought/said. From a technical perspective, if you're an engineer and get an MBa or business degree that makes you both more valuable and able to 'span' more of an organization. There is only so much you can accomplish as an individual, being able to bring a team together under a single vision gives you a huge boost in what you can get done. To do that you have to be able to talk to everyone in the concepts they understand so that you can clearly articulate a vision they can then help you execute. Lastly, one trick that a college counselor taught me is to imagine you are doing your dream job or living your dream life. Now write a fictional history of that persons life, like someone reading an introduction of you before a TED talk. Start with the end point and work backwards in the history to where you are right now. It can give you ideas about what your next steps should be.

sbahr001 5y ago

Here is my 2 cents: 1. It looks like you have been a successful software engineer and were able to move up. 2. From the sound of it you hit the mastery portion of S learning curve in terms of technical ability. So no matter how much you "educate" yourself you will never hit the level of growth you experienced when you were younger. So staying current is the best part you can do in this section as that is how the tech world works. 3. There is a new skill set that you might still be in the early stages of and that is as a VP of Engineering/Managing people are getting the best of your team and being able to challenge yourself is this department. Technically no two companies are the same so this is a place where you can constantly challenge yourself. So changing the place you work at can lead to a lot of growth here, or possibly acting as a consultant for companies that don't need a "VP of Engineering" quiet yet. 3b. If being in management doesn't really interest you and you want to be an engineer, then working in another industry might keep you excited, like becoming a game programmer/iOT programmer, AI, Architecture, etc. 4. Could be changing careers all together because you don't feel challenged enough, you can use your current job to help fund your family and the learning for that new career. 5. Terms of Salary is all subjective to where you work and what the place you work. I technically take a 50k+ pay cut because I work for a small company. The current job gives me a lot of flexibility, less stress than I have ever had to deal with before. That piece of mind and relaxation is more important to me given some medical issues I deal with from time to time. So yes you can be underpaid, but is the great team and the place you work at worth it? The end of the day these are my 2 cents on the matter, but what I will say at the end is to do what really makes you happy. Is it family, career, challenges, etc. Finding what truly makes you happy and doing that is the best career move you can make. I would say start with that :)

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
great reply! thank you

philote 5y ago

What type of growth are you looking for? You say you are happy with your work and team, but you're also here asking for something more. What do you feel is missing? Also, what hobbies do you have? Perhaps you need to find something fun to do when you're not working and not being a dad/husband. Or maybe you need to change employment to get out of your comfort zone a bit and see what else is out there. I've found it's easy to stagnate when staying with the same company too long, though there are of course exceptions.

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
- my responsibilities didn't change in years, kind of good because I am trying to be better with what I do - salary grown slowly, my colleagues got way more than me - I enjoy mentoring and leveling different team members, and also growing them and delegate task. It left me with so little (high level decision making) that I don't feel motivated enough for. I don't know what exactly I am looking for. I am happy, I am not saying otherwise, but I feel that I need to grow my knowledge where I will be able to provide more value in future the growth rate that I've been going through in the past few years is slow and I would like to learn more and be able to provide bigger value to the people/companies I work with

cryptica 5y ago

If you want to succeed in this industry. You have to constantly lie, cheat and manipulate. All the people I know who got promoted with big salaries had this in common.

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
no need to grow in this case, I prefer to stay where I am rather than going to a toxic env that's one of the reasons why I like my existing company, they don't lie, pretty honest and transparent

ecmascript 5y ago

If you enjoy your work, do you really need to grow? You can always try to make things grow outside of work, like plants.

theory_of_10_1 5y ago
I fear to be outdated at some point in future if I couldn't grow

deleted 5y ago

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benreesman 5y ago

I can’t speak to the family aspect from personal experience. Professionally it’s my experience that there is almost always something more challenging to attempt than what you are comfortable with, and that these challenges and the growth that comes with them can be carved up into very realistic, incremental, and achievable pieces. Good luck!