14 ms·

I know the post is about Windows 11 but I installed Windows 10 for someone on a laptop about 2 months ago and it had the most crazy dark pattern I've ever seen

by nickjj 5y ago

I know the post is about Windows 11 but I installed Windows 10 for someone on a laptop about 2 months ago and it had the most crazy dark pattern I've ever seen to be able to proceed past the installation screen without a Microsoft account. Short of not connecting to the internet first the only way I saw where it was possible to create an offline account was to first attempt to sign in using an incorrect password with a hotmail account. It was only after failing that where an option appeared to create a local account. It doesn't stop there too. Now once in a while when they turn the machine on and reach the login screen, there's a big banner that says something along the lines of "Hey, you're missing out on very important features and are less secure by not registering an account with Microsoft..." with a call to action to link a MS account. This also hides the login screen by default and the only way to ignore that and get to the login screen is to click somewhere in the empty space but for a non-technical user this isn't intuitive. They always try to click the only thing that looks clickable. It's so shady. Sadly I had to make a MS account for them in the end to unlock Windows "S" mode into a regular version of Windows 10 Home so I could install an app that wasn't in the app store on their machine. The only way to do that was to make a MS account for the Microsoft Store but fortunately you can still login to Windows itself with the offline account. It never ends.

Tepix 5y ago
Indeed, a few months ago Microsoft changed Windows 10 so that the only way to install it with a local account is to disconnect the LAN cable
- teh_klev 5y ago
  I had to perform a fresh re-install on a laptop earlier this year and even had to go to the lengths of physically removing the WiFi card from the machine before I could get the local account option to appear in the installer. What an absolute fricken waste of time.
  - hilbert42 5y ago
    Right, we need laws to stop this practice. If, say, I bought a new laptop several years ago with Windows 10 on it and agreed to the terms and conditions at that time and Microsoft then increasingly tightens those rules with updates etc. then I'm forced to agree to the new terms that I now disagree with or otherwise I could potentially be in trouble. This ought to be a job for consumer law. Moreover, MS is inexorably moving stuff, utilities etc, that were once on its website to its store that requires login for, it seems, similar reasons. Clearly, knowing exactly who we are has financial benefits for Microsoft or otherwise it wouldn't bother.
alpaca128 5y ago
Microsoft really is one of the worst examples in the dark pattern department that I've ever seen. Same with their email service, where you can register an account without issues and after a few weeks of use I was presented with an unskippable input field for my phone number. Don't want to give MS your phone number? Too bad, better hope you don't need those emails anymore.
- GuB-42 5y ago
  Google does that too.
  - dzdt 5y ago
    Twitter also. You can create an account without a phone number but in about 2 weeks it is locked unless you supply and verify one.
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      I got my account reported and locked on twitter and they would only unlock it if I supplied my phone number. Now I have no twitter and am honestly happier for it.
    - diogenesjunior 5y ago
      Yep. Main reason why I do not use Twitter. I'll stick to HN.
    - croes 5y ago
      My Twitter account got locked in about a minute.
      - b0tzzzzzzman 5y ago
        Took about 5 for me.
      - gentleman11 5y ago
        Took me a day
ukyrgf 5y ago
I'm at a small business that gets maybe 2 dozen new computers a year but line 1 on my setup list is "DO NOT PLUG IN THE ETHERNET CABLE" I can't believe it's come to this...
- joejacket 5y ago
  This is standard procedure for everything, it's been that way with ’smart' TVs for years.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Surely the 'professional' versions don't have this requirement? I'm quite far from a Windows expert, but at the company I work for the IT folks control all aspects of authentication and maintenance (e.g. patches all come through our own servers, not MS or Apple). They'd tell MS to piss off if they tried to require employees to have MS accounts.
  - a2tech 5y ago
    No, Windows 10 Pro/Enterprise does the same thing until its bound to a directory.
  - ioulian 5y ago
    I've only installed PRO versions of Windows 10 and you CAN setup a local account even if internet is plugged in. It is however, hidden behind a few clicks so you must actively search for it. EDIT: maybe I'm wrong now, as other comment says they changed it a few months back. My last install was somewhere in Dec/2020
    - buran77 5y ago
      I installed a 21H1 Pro version just yesterday. On the user creation screen the local account is still hidden behind a "Domain join instead" button where you can actually use a local account. Of course most people at home would actually actively stay away from that button thinking it must lead to some enterprise IT voodoo.
    - 5y ago
JoeyBananas 5y ago
it's time to ditch Windows for linux
- tabulatouch 5y ago
  I am always surprised by the lack of a proper "Linux Wine" OS, binary compatible with Windows, but with linux under the hood..
  - vageli 5y ago
    These days there is Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL).
    - dkersten 5y ago
      Which is a subsystem of windows to run linux, not a subsystem consisting of windows to run on linux. Ie that doesn't solve the problem of "I don't want to run Windows but want Windows software", but rather it solves the opposite problem of "I'm on Windows and want to run Linux software".
      - vageli 5y ago
        Ah, I see I misunderstood the comment to which I replied.
  - bserge 5y ago
    Maybe if WINE ditched their "clean room" directive...
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      They can't, it would open them up for so much legal trouble. Just look at the entire SCO saga.
  - sempron64 5y ago
    I think the core problem is that wine needs to be tweaked and adjusted for the applications which are running, and often running certain software requires strange things with winetricks. It’s not stable enough for a distro
x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
I had the same story as you. I was setting up my mother's laptop, and of course they are pusshing 'S' mode. The narrative is that for security reasons, S-mode will only allow things from the Microsoft Store to be installed. MS knows this, and to disable S-mode so you can install something like Chrome, you have to create an MS account. No matter where I looked, there was no way to disable S-mode without creating an account.
aclelland 5y ago
You want an even darker pattern? Try requesting the windows telemetry data from a PC which isn't logged in through a MS account. You'll spend weeks going back and forth trying to explain to their support agents that you can't login to the website because you don't have an account. Frustrating doesn't begin to describe it. I've still not been able to get anything from them despite a 30 email chain.
- linker3000 5y ago
  Are you in the UK/EU? Hit MS with a subject access request (SAR) as per GDPR Article 15, and the clock starts ticking; the data processor (MS) must then provide all the personal data they hold on you, and other supplementary information. within one month (extendable by another two).
  - gigel82 5y ago
    I'm curious what'll actually be in there; please do this and report back. I keep hearing the line of MS's evil data collection to serve you ads and whatnot but I suspect the truth is much milder; they probably have mostly usage telemetry to drive their investment decisions and possibly perf / bugs because they fired their testing team.
Osiris 5y ago
I just installed Windows 10 on a laptop for my mom. On the account setup screen there's a little skip button to create a local account without a Microsoft account.
- sp332 5y ago
  Your computer was connected to the internet and you're using relatively recent install media? I'm asking because I haven't seen that behavior in years.
  - danieldk 5y ago
    I had a Windows 10 Pro laptop for the last 7 months or so (but ditched a few days ago it because Windows has become so terrible) and the two times I installed it, I definitely had an option to create a local account. At some point it was in the lower-left while onboarding (carefully disguised as some clickable text rather than a very visible button). Both times the machine was connected to the internet. One time with the standard Lenovo media, one time from a fresh Windows 10 Pro ISO. Could there be a regional difference? (I am in the EU)
  - dsissitka 5y ago
    They've removed it from Home but it's still there for Pro. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27624555 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27624555
HeckFeck 5y ago
It is a shame to watch the decline of Windows. There isn't much I can recommend to non-technical users looking affordable computing relatively under their control. Manipulation and user hostility is unacceptable. Any of these possibilities would be nice: * The market presents a kinder (and equally-affordable x86) solution and users follow. * ReactOS lurches leaps and bounds ahead. * Microsoft realises this trajectory is wrong and rows back. * Everyone wakes up and realises that Stallman was right. For the foreseeable, none are likely. What we really need is something to go horribly wrong that demonstrates practically why remote control and data collection of your own system is a bad idea. That will be the only way the point is driven home for the passive masses, unfortunately.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  Why does Apple make it so difficult/borderline impossible to run MacOS on non-apple computers? Would it cut into their computer sales that significantly? I would imagine most people who want (and can afford) a Mac would still buy one.
  - voakbasda 5y ago
    No, they wouldn’t. My last “Mac” was a PowerComputing clone, because other manufactures were doing hardware better than Apple. Jobs killed the clones, and I became a Linux user that never looked back. Apple maintains their walled garden because they know that their users would quickly realize the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
    - macintux 5y ago
      > Apple maintains their walled garden because they know that their users would quickly realize the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. I've been on both sides of the fence, worked for a Linux company for a few years, and I'm very happy in the walled garden.
  - neodymiumphish 5y ago
    > Would it cut into their computer sales that significantly? Is this a real question? Many of the edge cases, both high cost and low, would disappear for Apple. Additionally, all the tech support will fall on them. Lastly, any bad user experience (cheap device with crap battery, low quality hardware that doesn't match the software experience, etc) would have a negative effect on them as a brand.
BLKNSLVR 5y ago
Microsoft have become the best advertisement for Linux on the desktop. This kind of advertising actually worked on me.
- hilbert42 5y ago
  Yeah, unfortunately that kind of advertising only works on the likes of you, me and other HN readers. The rest, even quite savvy technical people (as I've found), simply put up with the problem—that's if they recognize it as such. Microsoft knows this and writes us off as our numbers are in the noise. Essentially, to MS, we're irrelevant.
Nexxxeh 5y ago
My usual procedure is make a restore USB drive using whatever tool supplied, or just clone it with TrueImage, in case something goes arwy. Then: "Disable secure boot, wipe SSD, reinstall Windows without connecting to the Internet". You'll end up with a relatively bloat-free non-S Windows 10 install with a local account, no BitLocker (although it can be enabled later), and Windows will generally install all the hardware drivers for you. Anything missing that you want can be grabbed from the manufacturer's website. Once everything's done, re-enable secure boot.
- hilbert42 5y ago
  Agreed, this ought to mantra for everyone. Ever since XP, I have always installed or setup Windows in essentially this way—and I never do the setup with the internet connected (not even with Linux). If in the middle of the process I need an updated hardware driver then I'll download it on another machine. Once the setup is done and the O/S configured exactly the way I want it (which often takes me considerable time), I'll then mirror the drive. I then progressively repeat the process in stages, first with essential utilities, text editors and maintenance tools and work up to bigger programs, word-processors etc. At the end of the process I'll end up with at least four mirrors. If anything goes wrong I can restore the image which typically takes me 7 to 10 minutes and I'm right to go. Doing the job in multiple stages is good idea if you want to remove traces of a program that, say, won't allow easy re-installation for licensing reasons. All such program are relegated to a latter-stage image, so the process then is to restore the immediately preceding one that is 'clean'. Only when I'm finished saving the last image and I'm totally happy with the installation do I connect the internet.
giancarlostoro 5y ago
> I know the post is about Windows 11 but I installed Windows 10 for someone on a laptop about 2 months ago and it had the most crazy dark pattern I've ever seen to be able to proceed past the installation screen without a Microsoft account. I would set it up without access to internet as the easiest way to force it. It is pretty awful this has to be done this way. Eventually I will just exclusively use Ubuntu and call it a day.
keb_ 5y ago
Stuff like this makes me scared to upgrade from Windows 10 LTSC (1809).
- sitzkrieg 5y ago
  just reinstalled ltsc and intend to use it forever
hk1337 5y ago
Albeit, it's not that obvious, you can create an offline account without failing to sign in. Maybe it's different with anything below Windows 10 Pro but that was my experience.
- nickjj 5y ago
  > Maybe it's different with anything below Windows 10 Pro but that was my experience. It is different with the "S" Home edition which is what comes with a lot of decently spec'd laptops for typical personal use. I run Pro here and there's a secondary text link off to the side that you can click to make an offline account. That link doesn't exist with the Home edition (specifically the "S" edition, I don't know about the regular Home edition). In all cases this is with the US version too, which might play a role in what's seen when people install Windows across the world.
  - hk1337 5y ago
    Yeah, Pro (and above) is also the only one that has the Hyper-V or whatever, if that's even still a requirement.
lowercase1 5y ago
My username is "fucky" after I used an name to describe my feelings of having to create/use a Microsoft account. Exercise to the reader to guess the unshortened name
- fencepost 5y ago
  Now I'm feeling like I should create Microsoft accounts using the names of prominent Microsofties.
dudul 5y ago
Happened to me a few months ago too when setting up a new machine. The language was also so convoluted and strange that I didn't quite catch that this was creating an online account at the time. I found a way to revert it and make the account an offline account afterwards, but I was so furious about this crap. That being said, I don't see the banner you mention.
darknavi 5y ago
In the leaked Windows 11 build the setup flow got slightly less "dark pattern"-y. There is a small video of it here (linked to timestamp): https://youtu.be/odZSCdNTFPw?t=305 https://youtu.be/odZSCdNTFPw?t=305
reaperducer 5y ago
"are less secure by not registering an account with Microsoft" More accounts equals less security. That's a fact. If Microsoft believes this, it's not worthy of our trust. If it's just marketing hype, ditto. I don't trust companies that outright lie to me.
noobquestion81 5y ago
I had the same experience a couple months back trying to set up a gaming PC. This was after the initial screen set my speakers to max and then blasted Cortana screaming at me in different languages. This was at about 3am in the morning, and I have pretty good speakers. After recovering from my heart attack, I then proceeded to fight for ~20 minutes on how to install without a Windows account - since I had already set up Wifi, the easiest way was to unplug my router for a bit. After a while Windows booted up, but would constantly BSOD on reboots. I gave up and bought a console. Absolute trash OS, sorry.
charwalker 5y ago
If online you have to set up as if it's a domain/work PC then say use an account or similar. I just run installs offline if possible, for home use, and make sure any place I'm working has a WSUS server/etc I can point MDT to.
Wistar 5y ago
Atop this crap is that, whether Pro or Home sku, MS account or local, the user is set up by default as an admin account.

by nickjj 5y ago

Tepix 5y ago

Indeed, a few months ago Microsoft changed Windows 10 so that the only way to install it with a local account is to disconnect the LAN cable

teh_klev 5y ago
I had to perform a fresh re-install on a laptop earlier this year and even had to go to the lengths of physically removing the WiFi card from the machine before I could get the local account option to appear in the installer. What an absolute fricken waste of time.
- hilbert42 5y ago
  Right, we need laws to stop this practice. If, say, I bought a new laptop several years ago with Windows 10 on it and agreed to the terms and conditions at that time and Microsoft then increasingly tightens those rules with updates etc. then I'm forced to agree to the new terms that I now disagree with or otherwise I could potentially be in trouble. This ought to be a job for consumer law. Moreover, MS is inexorably moving stuff, utilities etc, that were once on its website to its store that requires login for, it seems, similar reasons. Clearly, knowing exactly who we are has financial benefits for Microsoft or otherwise it wouldn't bother.

alpaca128 5y ago

Microsoft really is one of the worst examples in the dark pattern department that I've ever seen. Same with their email service, where you can register an account without issues and after a few weeks of use I was presented with an unskippable input field for my phone number. Don't want to give MS your phone number? Too bad, better hope you don't need those emails anymore.

GuB-42 5y ago
Google does that too.
- dzdt 5y ago
  Twitter also. You can create an account without a phone number but in about 2 weeks it is locked unless you supply and verify one.
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    I got my account reported and locked on twitter and they would only unlock it if I supplied my phone number. Now I have no twitter and am honestly happier for it.
  - diogenesjunior 5y ago
    Yep. Main reason why I do not use Twitter. I'll stick to HN.
  - croes 5y ago
    My Twitter account got locked in about a minute.
    - b0tzzzzzzman 5y ago
      Took about 5 for me.
    - gentleman11 5y ago
      Took me a day

ukyrgf 5y ago

I'm at a small business that gets maybe 2 dozen new computers a year but line 1 on my setup list is "DO NOT PLUG IN THE ETHERNET CABLE" I can't believe it's come to this...

joejacket 5y ago
This is standard procedure for everything, it's been that way with ’smart' TVs for years.
rootusrootus 5y ago
Surely the 'professional' versions don't have this requirement? I'm quite far from a Windows expert, but at the company I work for the IT folks control all aspects of authentication and maintenance (e.g. patches all come through our own servers, not MS or Apple). They'd tell MS to piss off if they tried to require employees to have MS accounts.
- a2tech 5y ago
  No, Windows 10 Pro/Enterprise does the same thing until its bound to a directory.
- ioulian 5y ago
  I've only installed PRO versions of Windows 10 and you CAN setup a local account even if internet is plugged in. It is however, hidden behind a few clicks so you must actively search for it. EDIT: maybe I'm wrong now, as other comment says they changed it a few months back. My last install was somewhere in Dec/2020
  - buran77 5y ago
    I installed a 21H1 Pro version just yesterday. On the user creation screen the local account is still hidden behind a "Domain join instead" button where you can actually use a local account. Of course most people at home would actually actively stay away from that button thinking it must lead to some enterprise IT voodoo.
  - 5y ago

JoeyBananas 5y ago

it's time to ditch Windows for linux

tabulatouch 5y ago
I am always surprised by the lack of a proper "Linux Wine" OS, binary compatible with Windows, but with linux under the hood..
- vageli 5y ago
  These days there is Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL).
  - dkersten 5y ago
    Which is a subsystem of windows to run linux, not a subsystem consisting of windows to run on linux. Ie that doesn't solve the problem of "I don't want to run Windows but want Windows software", but rather it solves the opposite problem of "I'm on Windows and want to run Linux software".
    - vageli 5y ago
      Ah, I see I misunderstood the comment to which I replied.
- bserge 5y ago
  Maybe if WINE ditched their "clean room" directive...
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    They can't, it would open them up for so much legal trouble. Just look at the entire SCO saga.
- sempron64 5y ago
  I think the core problem is that wine needs to be tweaked and adjusted for the applications which are running, and often running certain software requires strange things with winetricks. It’s not stable enough for a distro

x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago

I had the same story as you. I was setting up my mother's laptop, and of course they are pusshing 'S' mode. The narrative is that for security reasons, S-mode will only allow things from the Microsoft Store to be installed. MS knows this, and to disable S-mode so you can install something like Chrome, you have to create an MS account. No matter where I looked, there was no way to disable S-mode without creating an account.

aclelland 5y ago

You want an even darker pattern? Try requesting the windows telemetry data from a PC which isn't logged in through a MS account. You'll spend weeks going back and forth trying to explain to their support agents that you can't login to the website because you don't have an account. Frustrating doesn't begin to describe it. I've still not been able to get anything from them despite a 30 email chain.

linker3000 5y ago
Are you in the UK/EU? Hit MS with a subject access request (SAR) as per GDPR Article 15, and the clock starts ticking; the data processor (MS) must then provide all the personal data they hold on you, and other supplementary information. within one month (extendable by another two).
- gigel82 5y ago
  I'm curious what'll actually be in there; please do this and report back. I keep hearing the line of MS's evil data collection to serve you ads and whatnot but I suspect the truth is much milder; they probably have mostly usage telemetry to drive their investment decisions and possibly perf / bugs because they fired their testing team.

Osiris 5y ago

I just installed Windows 10 on a laptop for my mom. On the account setup screen there's a little skip button to create a local account without a Microsoft account.

sp332 5y ago
Your computer was connected to the internet and you're using relatively recent install media? I'm asking because I haven't seen that behavior in years.
- danieldk 5y ago
  I had a Windows 10 Pro laptop for the last 7 months or so (but ditched a few days ago it because Windows has become so terrible) and the two times I installed it, I definitely had an option to create a local account. At some point it was in the lower-left while onboarding (carefully disguised as some clickable text rather than a very visible button). Both times the machine was connected to the internet. One time with the standard Lenovo media, one time from a fresh Windows 10 Pro ISO. Could there be a regional difference? (I am in the EU)
- dsissitka 5y ago
  They've removed it from Home but it's still there for Pro. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27624555 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27624555

HeckFeck 5y ago

It is a shame to watch the decline of Windows. There isn't much I can recommend to non-technical users looking affordable computing relatively under their control. Manipulation and user hostility is unacceptable. Any of these possibilities would be nice: * The market presents a kinder (and equally-affordable x86) solution and users follow. * ReactOS lurches leaps and bounds ahead. * Microsoft realises this trajectory is wrong and rows back. * Everyone wakes up and realises that Stallman was right. For the foreseeable, none are likely. What we really need is something to go horribly wrong that demonstrates practically why remote control and data collection of your own system is a bad idea. That will be the only way the point is driven home for the passive masses, unfortunately.

elliekelly 5y ago
Why does Apple make it so difficult/borderline impossible to run MacOS on non-apple computers? Would it cut into their computer sales that significantly? I would imagine most people who want (and can afford) a Mac would still buy one.
- voakbasda 5y ago
  No, they wouldn’t. My last “Mac” was a PowerComputing clone, because other manufactures were doing hardware better than Apple. Jobs killed the clones, and I became a Linux user that never looked back. Apple maintains their walled garden because they know that their users would quickly realize the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
  - macintux 5y ago
    > Apple maintains their walled garden because they know that their users would quickly realize the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. I've been on both sides of the fence, worked for a Linux company for a few years, and I'm very happy in the walled garden.
- neodymiumphish 5y ago
  > Would it cut into their computer sales that significantly? Is this a real question? Many of the edge cases, both high cost and low, would disappear for Apple. Additionally, all the tech support will fall on them. Lastly, any bad user experience (cheap device with crap battery, low quality hardware that doesn't match the software experience, etc) would have a negative effect on them as a brand.

BLKNSLVR 5y ago

Microsoft have become the best advertisement for Linux on the desktop. This kind of advertising actually worked on me.

hilbert42 5y ago
Yeah, unfortunately that kind of advertising only works on the likes of you, me and other HN readers. The rest, even quite savvy technical people (as I've found), simply put up with the problem—that's if they recognize it as such. Microsoft knows this and writes us off as our numbers are in the noise. Essentially, to MS, we're irrelevant.

Nexxxeh 5y ago

My usual procedure is make a restore USB drive using whatever tool supplied, or just clone it with TrueImage, in case something goes arwy. Then: "Disable secure boot, wipe SSD, reinstall Windows without connecting to the Internet". You'll end up with a relatively bloat-free non-S Windows 10 install with a local account, no BitLocker (although it can be enabled later), and Windows will generally install all the hardware drivers for you. Anything missing that you want can be grabbed from the manufacturer's website. Once everything's done, re-enable secure boot.

hilbert42 5y ago
Agreed, this ought to mantra for everyone. Ever since XP, I have always installed or setup Windows in essentially this way—and I never do the setup with the internet connected (not even with Linux). If in the middle of the process I need an updated hardware driver then I'll download it on another machine. Once the setup is done and the O/S configured exactly the way I want it (which often takes me considerable time), I'll then mirror the drive. I then progressively repeat the process in stages, first with essential utilities, text editors and maintenance tools and work up to bigger programs, word-processors etc. At the end of the process I'll end up with at least four mirrors. If anything goes wrong I can restore the image which typically takes me 7 to 10 minutes and I'm right to go. Doing the job in multiple stages is good idea if you want to remove traces of a program that, say, won't allow easy re-installation for licensing reasons. All such program are relegated to a latter-stage image, so the process then is to restore the immediately preceding one that is 'clean'. Only when I'm finished saving the last image and I'm totally happy with the installation do I connect the internet.

giancarlostoro 5y ago

> I know the post is about Windows 11 but I installed Windows 10 for someone on a laptop about 2 months ago and it had the most crazy dark pattern I've ever seen to be able to proceed past the installation screen without a Microsoft account. I would set it up without access to internet as the easiest way to force it. It is pretty awful this has to be done this way. Eventually I will just exclusively use Ubuntu and call it a day.

keb_ 5y ago

Stuff like this makes me scared to upgrade from Windows 10 LTSC (1809).

sitzkrieg 5y ago
just reinstalled ltsc and intend to use it forever

hk1337 5y ago

Albeit, it's not that obvious, you can create an offline account without failing to sign in. Maybe it's different with anything below Windows 10 Pro but that was my experience.

nickjj 5y ago
> Maybe it's different with anything below Windows 10 Pro but that was my experience. It is different with the "S" Home edition which is what comes with a lot of decently spec'd laptops for typical personal use. I run Pro here and there's a secondary text link off to the side that you can click to make an offline account. That link doesn't exist with the Home edition (specifically the "S" edition, I don't know about the regular Home edition). In all cases this is with the US version too, which might play a role in what's seen when people install Windows across the world.
- hk1337 5y ago
  Yeah, Pro (and above) is also the only one that has the Hyper-V or whatever, if that's even still a requirement.

lowercase1 5y ago

My username is "fucky" after I used an name to describe my feelings of having to create/use a Microsoft account. Exercise to the reader to guess the unshortened name

fencepost 5y ago
Now I'm feeling like I should create Microsoft accounts using the names of prominent Microsofties.

dudul 5y ago

Happened to me a few months ago too when setting up a new machine. The language was also so convoluted and strange that I didn't quite catch that this was creating an online account at the time. I found a way to revert it and make the account an offline account afterwards, but I was so furious about this crap. That being said, I don't see the banner you mention.

darknavi 5y ago

In the leaked Windows 11 build the setup flow got slightly less "dark pattern"-y. There is a small video of it here (linked to timestamp): https://youtu.be/odZSCdNTFPw?t=305 https://youtu.be/odZSCdNTFPw?t=305

reaperducer 5y ago

"are less secure by not registering an account with Microsoft" More accounts equals less security. That's a fact. If Microsoft believes this, it's not worthy of our trust. If it's just marketing hype, ditto. I don't trust companies that outright lie to me.

noobquestion81 5y ago

I had the same experience a couple months back trying to set up a gaming PC. This was after the initial screen set my speakers to max and then blasted Cortana screaming at me in different languages. This was at about 3am in the morning, and I have pretty good speakers. After recovering from my heart attack, I then proceeded to fight for ~20 minutes on how to install without a Windows account - since I had already set up Wifi, the easiest way was to unplug my router for a bit. After a while Windows booted up, but would constantly BSOD on reboots. I gave up and bought a console. Absolute trash OS, sorry.

charwalker 5y ago

If online you have to set up as if it's a domain/work PC then say use an account or similar. I just run installs offline if possible, for home use, and make sure any place I'm working has a WSUS server/etc I can point MDT to.

Wistar 5y ago

Atop this crap is that, whether Pro or Home sku, MS account or local, the user is set up by default as an admin account.