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but there's already significant amount of ds, algos, OOP in academia, also I don't see how those are "scientific types of skills" I do also wonder what people

but there's already significant amount of ds, algos, OOP in academia, also I don't see how those are "scientific types of skills" I do also wonder what people *precisely* mean when they talk about "data structures and algorithms" in context of academia You talk from perspective of competitive programming?

DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago
Yes, there is already a significant amount of it; and that's good. My opinion is that academia should not waste too much time preparing people for a job, but give them as much as possible of precisely the kind of problem solving skills that they won't be picking up on the job.
- tester34 5y ago
  Playing devil's side: It's dependent on the job, but anyway they can learn this stuff not only during work hours (learning hours or whatever it is called), but also in their free time It's not like only Academia is authorized to teach DS&A, FP
  - DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago
    I mean, yes, you can learn these things on your own, but that's by no means an excuse that higher education should focus less on these aspects. It shouldn't be the default that university teaches you job skills and leaves you to learn the theory on your own. Honestly, I really don't see a solid case there.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  How can you learn to solve engineering problems without doing engineering? University teaches you about theoretical computer science, not problem solving skills for software engineering. No university teaches you about how to assess an engineering problem, how to break it down, how to create at timeline/estimate, etc.
  - oytis 5y ago
    > No university teaches you about how to assess an engineering problem, how to break it down, how to create at timeline/estimate, etc. Many of them do actually. Obviously you will not be very good at it before having actual work experience, but it is useful to be open to thinking about it.
  - DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago
    > How can you learn to solve engineering problems without doing engineering? Yet that's the opposite of what the article focuses on: mostly soft-skills and all the fluff that surrounds the actual engineering work, like dealing with project maintainers, figuring out github, etc. This approach, when taken to the extreme*, would lead people to be very good at explaining why they opened a certain pull request, but couldn't even merge it on the CLI because that's not something you need for a FOSS contribution. * note this part
speters 5y ago
For DS and algos, formally proving properties of things would definitely be considerd an academic activity.
llbeansandrice 5y ago
> mean when they talk about "data structures and algorithms" in context of academia Have you taken a senior/graduate level DS&A class before? Part of it is about proving the correctness of the algorithms and making guarantees about the DSs. It's not about competitive programing or acing leetcode interviews at all. In the class I took we didn't write hardly any actual code.
- tester34 5y ago
  >Have you taken a senior/graduate level DS&A class before? I've taken DS&A class during CS Eng. degree, it was bullshit about sorting algorithms while using 1-indexed arrays in languages that used 0-indexed approach, nothing fancy. I wish it were about TLA+ and formal proving

DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago

Yes, there is already a significant amount of it; and that's good. My opinion is that academia should not waste too much time preparing people for a job, but give them as much as possible of precisely the kind of problem solving skills that they won't be picking up on the job.

tester34 5y ago
Playing devil's side: It's dependent on the job, but anyway they can learn this stuff not only during work hours (learning hours or whatever it is called), but also in their free time It's not like only Academia is authorized to teach DS&A, FP
- DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago
  I mean, yes, you can learn these things on your own, but that's by no means an excuse that higher education should focus less on these aspects. It shouldn't be the default that university teaches you job skills and leaves you to learn the theory on your own. Honestly, I really don't see a solid case there.
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
How can you learn to solve engineering problems without doing engineering? University teaches you about theoretical computer science, not problem solving skills for software engineering. No university teaches you about how to assess an engineering problem, how to break it down, how to create at timeline/estimate, etc.
- oytis 5y ago
  > No university teaches you about how to assess an engineering problem, how to break it down, how to create at timeline/estimate, etc. Many of them do actually. Obviously you will not be very good at it before having actual work experience, but it is useful to be open to thinking about it.
- DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago
  > How can you learn to solve engineering problems without doing engineering? Yet that's the opposite of what the article focuses on: mostly soft-skills and all the fluff that surrounds the actual engineering work, like dealing with project maintainers, figuring out github, etc. This approach, when taken to the extreme*, would lead people to be very good at explaining why they opened a certain pull request, but couldn't even merge it on the CLI because that's not something you need for a FOSS contribution. * note this part

speters 5y ago

For DS and algos, formally proving properties of things would definitely be considerd an academic activity.

llbeansandrice 5y ago

> mean when they talk about "data structures and algorithms" in context of academia Have you taken a senior/graduate level DS&A class before? Part of it is about proving the correctness of the algorithms and making guarantees about the DSs. It's not about competitive programing or acing leetcode interviews at all. In the class I took we didn't write hardly any actual code.

tester34 5y ago
>Have you taken a senior/graduate level DS&A class before? I've taken DS&A class during CS Eng. degree, it was bullshit about sorting algorithms while using 1-indexed arrays in languages that used 0-indexed approach, nothing fancy. I wish it were about TLA+ and formal proving