10 ms·

Off the Grid Messenger

194 points by velmu 5y ago

geoah 5y ago
This just looks amazing, really sad there is just NO way I'll ever be able to solder this myself hehe. This would be a very interesting kickstarter project.
- zoom6628 5y ago
  Agreed!
SahAssar 5y ago
Interesting project with similar goals: https://hackaday.io/project/171790-armawatch-armachat-long-range-radio-messengers https://hackaday.io/project/171790-armawatch-armachat-long-r...
abriosi 5y ago
Are there any commercially available devices like this?
- GlassOwAter 5y ago
  Yes, I forget what it’s called. It connects to your cellphone over bluetooth and then creates a mesh network with other people’s radio devices to text each other in the wilderness. Also, if one person has cell service it can route texts out through them. It had a kickstarter and then later they shifted more to forest fire fighters and search and rescue. I will edit this comment if I remember what its called. Its called goTenna Here’s a few things you may be interested in https://www.tripsavvy.com/gadgets-for-backcountry-communication-4066040 https://www.tripsavvy.com/gadgets-for-backcountry-communicat...
- csharpminor 5y ago
  Not exactly the same, but goTenna Mesh delivers similar functionality. It connects to your phone via Bluetooth then transmits data via UHF to a mesh network of devices.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tonyarkles 5y ago
  Alternatively, if you want to get global coverage, there's https://www.bivystick.com/bivy-stick-satellite-communicator/ https://www.bivystick.com/bivy-stick-satellite-communicator/ Disclosure: I worked on an implementation of the Android-side Bluetooth stack for this. It's... decent.
- hoytech 5y ago
  There is meshtastic, which is open source and uses pretty cheap hardware: https://meshtastic.letstalkthis.com/ https://meshtastic.letstalkthis.com/
  - djrogers 5y ago
    That’s not what I would consider ‘commercially available’ - it’s a project with software and some hardware recommendations to build it yourself. I’d pay decent money for an actual off-the-shelf, working set of these.
    - Multicomp 5y ago
      Same. this is what has kept me with the various analog family radio service devices. I just need p2p texting within one neighborhood. Anything on top is a bonus. But I don't have confidence in my building skills, and the GoTennas are too expensive. Anyone offer a meshtastic build out service? ;)
    - hoytech 5y ago
      If it helps, the T-Beam (first link in hardware section) has meshtastic pre-installed. But yes, it's still sort of a kit since you need to solder the 4 pins for the display and bring your own 18650 battery (and 3D print a case if you like).
    - Saris 5y ago
      It's close, you can buy hardware commercially with it pre-installed. So you can just buy a working set of them. But they aren't 100% finished hardware, no cases and such.
Hippocrates 5y ago
Anyone remember the cybiko? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybiko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybiko
- Daegalus 5y ago
  Oh man, I either had one, or something similar. Or at least wanting one. I thought it would be cool to have dedicated messaging devices.
  - jhgb 5y ago
    > I thought it would be cool to have dedicated messaging devices. You mean something like phones?
    - nine_k 5y ago
      Like walkie-talkies. Phones only work as communication devices in vicinity of the network towers.
      - jhgb 5y ago
        Perhaps, but that doesn't mean phones are not "dedicated", though.
        ALittleLight 5y ago
        My phone is more of a portable web browser that can send messages.
        jhgb 5y ago
        I was talking more about those that used to be decent self-defense weapons.
      - vel0city 5y ago
        Amateur radio can kind do this. In fact there are text message digital modes like APRS. With digipeaters in the area I can send messages from a 5W handheld around the city. You can also then see APRS data online through sites like aprs.fi The only thing is there's no encryption on amateur radio.
Daegalus 5y ago
Honestly, I have been fantasizing about a device used purely for text messaging, with multiple connection modes (LoRA, LTE, Wifi, etc) and then just dedicate it to messaging. A small device just to send and receive messages either directly, and/or integrate with popular messaging services, but only messaging. Something to optimize battery, screen (only really need Eink or something low power), and other aspects for that mode of communication.
- red_hare 5y ago
  It's outdated now but there was the Peek Email device which gets pretty close and is, IMO, beautiful hardware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peek_(mobile_Internet_device) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peek_(mobile_Internet_device)
  - Daegalus 5y ago
    Oh that is really nice hardware. But ya, similar to that. Maybe I will sit down and see if I can design something myself.
    - iszomer 5y ago
      ARMAchat.
- marc__1 5y ago
  You are pretty much describing pager 2.0. Interesting how the world goes around
  - Daegalus 5y ago
    ya, I can see that. I think its just the overwhelming nature of every little thing going on right now. Having a way to take a break but not completely be off the grid would be nice.
    - reaperducer 5y ago
deadalus 5y ago
This Nokia e63 reminds me of the time when phones used to be so much fun and there was a lot of variety. All the phones are essentially the same now. When Phones Were Fun – And Nokia Was Crazy : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZi-7V11k8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZi-7V11k8
- paxys 5y ago
  Great video, but god those intense focus blur effects gave me a headache.
- kgwxd 5y ago
  Unihertz still makes fun phones. I've been using a Jelly 2 [0] and I'm getting the Titan Pocket [1] in September (assuming it ships. They were right on schedule with the Jelly 2). I don't use my phone much outside of phone calls, text and casual browsing so I can't speak much to how well they work with more mainstream apps, but they work well for me. [0] https://www.unihertz.com/jelly-2.html https://www.unihertz.com/jelly-2.html [1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jellyphone/titan-pocket-the-smallest-qwerty-android-11-smartphone/posts/3221666?ref=ksr_email_backer_project_update_registered_users https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jellyphone/titan-pocket...
  - gurchik 5y ago
    Hopefully the Jelly 2 works a lot better than the Jelly Pro. I bought one last year for work as I was finding it too stressful to use my personal phone for on-call, something that I could easily carry anywhere and cheap enough that I didn't mind it thrown in a drawer when I wasn't on-call. What I found is that the Jelly Pro's performance was so bad that apps often couldn't send notifications properly, even for the stock Dialer app. You'd have to open the app and then you'd receive notifications that you missed 5 calls. This happened so frequently I couldn't use it as an on-call device. I had all the OS updates installed as well, and no non-stock apps installed.
    - kgwxd 5y ago
      I haven't had any issues like that. I severely underestimated the difficulty of typing on a touchscreen that small though. Portrait mode is impossible, landscape is usable but it's all keyboard, nothing else is really visible, which is why I decided to try the Titan so soon after getting the Jelly 2.
sndean 5y ago
Could anyone knowledgeable about radio tell me what's the pros/cons of this over something like APRS [0]? I guess for pros this wouldn't require a ham radio license and it's encrypted, but APRS is possible out of the box for certain radios? [0] http://www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html http://www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
  I do agree that APRS seems a better fit, especially since you have control over antenna design/placement as well as power levels, meaning you could go farther. In the pro category, though, this device is pocketable, and I don't think there are very many APRS-enabled radios that easily fit into jeans pocket (I'd love to be proven wrong). You could cobble together something -- a Baofeng UV3R+ or especially a BF-T1 easily fits into a pocket, but that's just the radio. You need an audio cable/TNC and a phone to make it an APRS setup.
  - figers 5y ago
    Kenwood th-d74a has everything built in to do just this, I have used it for a while with APRS auto sending location on the go, sending through APRS to SMS and to email addresses
- progbits 5y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't encryption for APRS (and amateur radio in general) illegal [1]? So if you are going for encrypted platform might as well use a less regulated frequency range. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio
  - zikduruqe 5y ago
    You are correct... cannot encrypt anything voice or data on any Amateur Radio frequencies.
    - kossTKR 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
boomskats 5y ago
> The e63 doesn't support touch and TouchGFX doesn't work with keypads or buttons so interfacing the keypad to the GUI engine was not a trivial exercise. I found this amusing, considering my keyboard runs on a pair of STM32 blackpills
wpdev_63 5y ago
It reminds of this project[0] using lora protocol and custom icb. The advantage of using lora is that it can go up to 25 miles and uses 1/10th of an amp when in use so it can last for years. [0]:https://makezine.com/projects/armachat-lora-communicator?vgo_ee=zKtEpez0t7e4YGhfzFpqSvGU1ExDdALPZgfTEx7uF78%3D https://makezine.com/projects/armachat-lora-communicator?vgo...
softgrow 5y ago
AN0M v2? :) :)
potamic 5y ago
I'm fascinated by off the grid solutions. Does this need any special hardware to run? Considering phones have radio/wifi equipment, is it possible to create a software only solution that can install and run off any phone?
- guerrilla 5y ago
  The end of the second paragraph: > an ISM LoRA radio
  - potamic 5y ago
    I don't know much about this. Is this pretty much mandatory for such an off the grid solution or could the radio equipment in the average phone also play the role, maybe with different effectiveness?
SigmundA 5y ago
Keep wondering if a smartphone maker will build in a point to point radio system like goTenna [1] or Beartooth [2]. Ideally everyone would agree on a standard and you can just text message / share location with anyone in range and mesh back to the cell network, one can hope. 1. https://gotenna.com https://gotenna.com 2. https://beartooth.com https://beartooth.com
andrewshadura 5y ago
This reminds me of Zipit Z2.

194 points by velmu 5y ago

This just looks amazing, really sad there is just NO way I'll ever be able to solder this myself hehe. This would be a very interesting kickstarter project.

zoom6628 5y ago
Agreed!

SahAssar 5y ago

Interesting project with similar goals: https://hackaday.io/project/171790-armawatch-armachat-long-range-radio-messengers https://hackaday.io/project/171790-armawatch-armachat-long-r...

abriosi 5y ago

Are there any commercially available devices like this?

GlassOwAter 5y ago
Yes, I forget what it’s called. It connects to your cellphone over bluetooth and then creates a mesh network with other people’s radio devices to text each other in the wilderness. Also, if one person has cell service it can route texts out through them. It had a kickstarter and then later they shifted more to forest fire fighters and search and rescue. I will edit this comment if I remember what its called. Its called goTenna Here’s a few things you may be interested in https://www.tripsavvy.com/gadgets-for-backcountry-communication-4066040 https://www.tripsavvy.com/gadgets-for-backcountry-communicat...
csharpminor 5y ago
Not exactly the same, but goTenna Mesh delivers similar functionality. It connects to your phone via Bluetooth then transmits data via UHF to a mesh network of devices.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tonyarkles 5y ago
Alternatively, if you want to get global coverage, there's https://www.bivystick.com/bivy-stick-satellite-communicator/ https://www.bivystick.com/bivy-stick-satellite-communicator/ Disclosure: I worked on an implementation of the Android-side Bluetooth stack for this. It's... decent.
hoytech 5y ago
There is meshtastic, which is open source and uses pretty cheap hardware: https://meshtastic.letstalkthis.com/ https://meshtastic.letstalkthis.com/
- djrogers 5y ago
  That’s not what I would consider ‘commercially available’ - it’s a project with software and some hardware recommendations to build it yourself. I’d pay decent money for an actual off-the-shelf, working set of these.
  - Multicomp 5y ago
    Same. this is what has kept me with the various analog family radio service devices. I just need p2p texting within one neighborhood. Anything on top is a bonus. But I don't have confidence in my building skills, and the GoTennas are too expensive. Anyone offer a meshtastic build out service? ;)
  - hoytech 5y ago
    If it helps, the T-Beam (first link in hardware section) has meshtastic pre-installed. But yes, it's still sort of a kit since you need to solder the 4 pins for the display and bring your own 18650 battery (and 3D print a case if you like).
  - Saris 5y ago
    It's close, you can buy hardware commercially with it pre-installed. So you can just buy a working set of them. But they aren't 100% finished hardware, no cases and such.

Hippocrates 5y ago

Anyone remember the cybiko? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybiko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybiko

Daegalus 5y ago
Oh man, I either had one, or something similar. Or at least wanting one. I thought it would be cool to have dedicated messaging devices.
- jhgb 5y ago
  > I thought it would be cool to have dedicated messaging devices. You mean something like phones?
  - nine_k 5y ago
    Like walkie-talkies. Phones only work as communication devices in vicinity of the network towers.
    - jhgb 5y ago
      Perhaps, but that doesn't mean phones are not "dedicated", though.
      - ALittleLight 5y ago
        My phone is more of a portable web browser that can send messages.
        jhgb 5y ago
        I was talking more about those that used to be decent self-defense weapons.
    - vel0city 5y ago
      Amateur radio can kind do this. In fact there are text message digital modes like APRS. With digipeaters in the area I can send messages from a 5W handheld around the city. You can also then see APRS data online through sites like aprs.fi The only thing is there's no encryption on amateur radio.

Daegalus 5y ago

Honestly, I have been fantasizing about a device used purely for text messaging, with multiple connection modes (LoRA, LTE, Wifi, etc) and then just dedicate it to messaging. A small device just to send and receive messages either directly, and/or integrate with popular messaging services, but only messaging. Something to optimize battery, screen (only really need Eink or something low power), and other aspects for that mode of communication.

red_hare 5y ago
It's outdated now but there was the Peek Email device which gets pretty close and is, IMO, beautiful hardware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peek_(mobile_Internet_device) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peek_(mobile_Internet_device)
- Daegalus 5y ago
  Oh that is really nice hardware. But ya, similar to that. Maybe I will sit down and see if I can design something myself.
  - iszomer 5y ago
    ARMAchat.
marc__1 5y ago
You are pretty much describing pager 2.0. Interesting how the world goes around
- Daegalus 5y ago
  ya, I can see that. I think its just the overwhelming nature of every little thing going on right now. Having a way to take a break but not completely be off the grid would be nice.
  - reaperducer 5y ago

deadalus 5y ago

This Nokia e63 reminds me of the time when phones used to be so much fun and there was a lot of variety. All the phones are essentially the same now. When Phones Were Fun – And Nokia Was Crazy : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZi-7V11k8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZi-7V11k8

paxys 5y ago
Great video, but god those intense focus blur effects gave me a headache.
kgwxd 5y ago
Unihertz still makes fun phones. I've been using a Jelly 2 [0] and I'm getting the Titan Pocket [1] in September (assuming it ships. They were right on schedule with the Jelly 2). I don't use my phone much outside of phone calls, text and casual browsing so I can't speak much to how well they work with more mainstream apps, but they work well for me. [0] https://www.unihertz.com/jelly-2.html https://www.unihertz.com/jelly-2.html [1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jellyphone/titan-pocket-the-smallest-qwerty-android-11-smartphone/posts/3221666?ref=ksr_email_backer_project_update_registered_users https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jellyphone/titan-pocket...
- gurchik 5y ago
  Hopefully the Jelly 2 works a lot better than the Jelly Pro. I bought one last year for work as I was finding it too stressful to use my personal phone for on-call, something that I could easily carry anywhere and cheap enough that I didn't mind it thrown in a drawer when I wasn't on-call. What I found is that the Jelly Pro's performance was so bad that apps often couldn't send notifications properly, even for the stock Dialer app. You'd have to open the app and then you'd receive notifications that you missed 5 calls. This happened so frequently I couldn't use it as an on-call device. I had all the OS updates installed as well, and no non-stock apps installed.
  - kgwxd 5y ago
    I haven't had any issues like that. I severely underestimated the difficulty of typing on a touchscreen that small though. Portrait mode is impossible, landscape is usable but it's all keyboard, nothing else is really visible, which is why I decided to try the Titan so soon after getting the Jelly 2.

sndean 5y ago

Could anyone knowledgeable about radio tell me what's the pros/cons of this over something like APRS [0]? I guess for pros this wouldn't require a ham radio license and it's encrypted, but APRS is possible out of the box for certain radios? [0] http://www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html http://www.aprs.org/aprs-messaging.html

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
I do agree that APRS seems a better fit, especially since you have control over antenna design/placement as well as power levels, meaning you could go farther. In the pro category, though, this device is pocketable, and I don't think there are very many APRS-enabled radios that easily fit into jeans pocket (I'd love to be proven wrong). You could cobble together something -- a Baofeng UV3R+ or especially a BF-T1 easily fits into a pocket, but that's just the radio. You need an audio cable/TNC and a phone to make it an APRS setup.
- figers 5y ago
  Kenwood th-d74a has everything built in to do just this, I have used it for a while with APRS auto sending location on the go, sending through APRS to SMS and to email addresses
progbits 5y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't encryption for APRS (and amateur radio in general) illegal [1]? So if you are going for encrypted platform might as well use a less regulated frequency range. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio
- zikduruqe 5y ago
  You are correct... cannot encrypt anything voice or data on any Amateur Radio frequencies.
  - kossTKR 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

boomskats 5y ago

> The e63 doesn't support touch and TouchGFX doesn't work with keypads or buttons so interfacing the keypad to the GUI engine was not a trivial exercise. I found this amusing, considering my keyboard runs on a pair of STM32 blackpills

wpdev_63 5y ago

It reminds of this project[0] using lora protocol and custom icb. The advantage of using lora is that it can go up to 25 miles and uses 1/10th of an amp when in use so it can last for years. [0]:https://makezine.com/projects/armachat-lora-communicator?vgo_ee=zKtEpez0t7e4YGhfzFpqSvGU1ExDdALPZgfTEx7uF78%3D https://makezine.com/projects/armachat-lora-communicator?vgo...

softgrow 5y ago

AN0M v2? :) :)

potamic 5y ago

I'm fascinated by off the grid solutions. Does this need any special hardware to run? Considering phones have radio/wifi equipment, is it possible to create a software only solution that can install and run off any phone?

guerrilla 5y ago
The end of the second paragraph: > an ISM LoRA radio
- potamic 5y ago
  I don't know much about this. Is this pretty much mandatory for such an off the grid solution or could the radio equipment in the average phone also play the role, maybe with different effectiveness?

SigmundA 5y ago

Keep wondering if a smartphone maker will build in a point to point radio system like goTenna [1] or Beartooth [2]. Ideally everyone would agree on a standard and you can just text message / share location with anyone in range and mesh back to the cell network, one can hope. 1. https://gotenna.com https://gotenna.com 2. https://beartooth.com https://beartooth.com

andrewshadura 5y ago

This reminds me of Zipit Z2.