7 ms·

Uber CEO Works on App for a Day, Reveals Drivers Barely Make Minimum Wage

39 points by jocker12 5y ago

anm89 5y ago
He made almost 20% more than what I'm assuming is the highest minimum wage in the country. Garbage headline.
- jasonvorhe 5y ago
  "barely"
- HWR_14 5y ago
  His revenue was ~20% more than the minimum wage. Add in the employer half of FICA (+6.2%) and wear-and-tear on the car and gas and it looks like worse. If he drove more than 4.17 miles an hour (at US average IRS mileage rates) he made less than minimum wage. And that's ignoring other costs I may have forgotten. And that's assuming that for some reason the PR stunt showed no preference to the CEO in route assignment and otherwise was an up and up demo.
  - iav 5y ago
    He was biking, not driving
    - KptMarchewa 5y ago
      And over 3,5 hours, not 5.
      - HWR_14 5y ago
        As far as I can tell, he was using the app for 5.5 hours. The fact that 2 of them were looking for the next delivery is irrelevant. That time counts as working time. It's not just the 3.5 hours when the delivery is in the system
        dpiers 5y ago
        He has done deliveries the last two days for a total of 5 hours 25 minutes on a trip vs 5 hours 32 minutes online. Total $149.54.
        HWR_14 5y ago
        How do you see that? I couldn't find the logs in the article.
        KptMarchewa 5y ago
        Do you really claim that he sat on his ass for two hours and waited for the next delivery?
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      AFAIK, biking vs. driving doesn't change mileage reimbursement rates. It does change the vehicle that experiences the wear and tear and, for most bikes, eliminates the cost of gas. And it may change his true cost. But not the reimbursement a minimum wage employee would be entitled to.
FounderBurr 5y ago
That site is cancer. Get more ads I didn’t feel engaged enough!
stevenicr 5y ago
not willing to register to read the article. wishing there was micropayment - send a buck - get the content without registering. Did they get into expenses for the vehicle with the calculation? Taxes? I had some fun doing lyft for a month here and there several times - and they kept cutting the rates they paid drivers. The last few weeks I did it I realized the after expenses and taxes was about $6 / hour. Every uber/lyft driver I've ridden with has told me they have no info about tax time and what's to be expected - and none were saving for it. It's a disaster every year I bet. I've asked around a bit for banking option that would let you set rules for percentages - like each time money is deposited from place X take 28% and put into other savings account Y - but not found any.. I think it's needed. I saw a submarine article recently that said a thing called "lilly" debit card type thing made for freelancers(?) - says it can move money based on percentages - but the signup page the article referenced had no info about that feature so I let it linger in a tab and forgot about it. Whatever the money is with uber/lyft - so many don't understand all the expenses - I try to say it's like getting good money for driving neighbors around - but you don't see that you are basically taking a knife to your brakes and other components, handing over pieces of your car to the riders in exchange for $12 or whatever - and the more you drive the more you are in danger with other cars / etc.. and don't see the actual cost for a long time so you think it's better than what it is. love to know how many people they have had as drivers and how many do it more than 18 months.
- fzzzy 5y ago
  The "Simple" app used to have a function for automatically saving a percentage of every deposit, but Simple as a company is gone now, destroyed for no good reason by their acquirer.
  - noman-land 5y ago
    For the record, OneFinance is still pretty green but they have some interesting features that fill some of the gaps left by Simple's demise.
- prepend 5y ago
  I think it depends on the car, the mileage deduction rate is 57.5 cents per mile. If I have a Prius, my depreciation isn’t nearly that high so I may not be bad off come tax time. I can deduct not only the logged miles, but miles in between jobs and to/from work sites. If I’m driving 30 miles an hour then I’m deducting $17/hour from auto expenses that will greatly reduce my taxable revenue. Of course, there are expenses to be paid on the vehicle for fuel, insurance and depreciation. But there are vehicles where this is much less than the IRS deduction that is just flat for all vehicles.
radu_floricica 5y ago
Some (most?) people reading the headline will think it's a shame uber is exploiting workers. Me, I'm just taking it as pretty definite proof that people are more than willing to occasionally work below minimum wage. I'm seeing it as a pretty solid indictment on the whole "minimum wage is protecting poor people" idea. People not being carbon copy automatons have actual contexts and preferences. Maybe they value being independent more than a minimum wage. Maybe they do their math and come to the conclusion that averaged over a longer time, it's actually a pretty good wage. Maybe the CEO was a shitty driver in his first day (should we stop him from learning then?). Maybe some are going through a rough spot and want to make rent money, and damn whatever an accountant would say their "hourly wage" is. I'm betting most just get better, even if they occasionally go through a bad day. But steamroll this to fit with "minimum wage", and in absolutely all the contexts above you have unemployed people.
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  I also strongly believe that people are more than willing to work below minimum wage - it's just that I have a less happy explanation: Otherwise, their food, their car, and their house gets taken away. If becoming homeless was the alternative, I'd also do whatever job I have to. So in my opinion, this mostly just shows us that productivity in general is so high and automation works so well that we honestly don't need a healthy chunk of our fellow citizens. That's why they are forced to compete for even the shittiest jobs. Now the question is, what do we do with them?
  - Cipater 5y ago
    that we honestly don't need a healthy chunk of our fellow citizens. So dehumanising the way you talk about these people. We definitely need YOU, right? Maybe I should just log off HN for today.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      They never said that, you are putting words in their post. They could have the opinion that they are one of those people.
ddtaylor 5y ago
I think we're all very certain that Uber was aware of that fact long before this "experiment" was conducted.
ddtaylor 5y ago
To everyone upset at the website for being trash, I completely agree and understand, but reminder we have Reader Mode in Firefox for reason :D
- syspec 5y ago
  Reader mode in Safari, it was a must for that site
Proven 5y ago
I don't get it. What's wrong with earning the minimum wage? Why should he make more?
missedthecue 5y ago
"He said he earned $106.71 over five-and-a-half hours, over just over $19. San Francisco’s minimum wage is $16.07." This headline is extremely misleading, if not borderline fake news. I was expecting his earnings to be around $8 an hour or something, but he did $19 an hour on a bicycle, ~20% over minimum wage. The Independent seems to also realize this, because right after that, they feel the need to immediately add that "Uber Eats drivers, part-time contractors who provide their own transportation, food, healthcare, etc, often take home less than that figure, sometimes less than minimum wage." They seem to be less interested in reporting the facts and more interested in pushing a narrative.

39 points by jocker12 5y ago

anm89 5y ago

He made almost 20% more than what I'm assuming is the highest minimum wage in the country. Garbage headline.

jasonvorhe 5y ago
"barely"
HWR_14 5y ago
His revenue was ~20% more than the minimum wage. Add in the employer half of FICA (+6.2%) and wear-and-tear on the car and gas and it looks like worse. If he drove more than 4.17 miles an hour (at US average IRS mileage rates) he made less than minimum wage. And that's ignoring other costs I may have forgotten. And that's assuming that for some reason the PR stunt showed no preference to the CEO in route assignment and otherwise was an up and up demo.
- iav 5y ago
  He was biking, not driving
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    And over 3,5 hours, not 5.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      As far as I can tell, he was using the app for 5.5 hours. The fact that 2 of them were looking for the next delivery is irrelevant. That time counts as working time. It's not just the 3.5 hours when the delivery is in the system
      - dpiers 5y ago
        He has done deliveries the last two days for a total of 5 hours 25 minutes on a trip vs 5 hours 32 minutes online. Total $149.54.
        HWR_14 5y ago
        How do you see that? I couldn't find the logs in the article.
      - KptMarchewa 5y ago
        Do you really claim that he sat on his ass for two hours and waited for the next delivery?
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    AFAIK, biking vs. driving doesn't change mileage reimbursement rates. It does change the vehicle that experiences the wear and tear and, for most bikes, eliminates the cost of gas. And it may change his true cost. But not the reimbursement a minimum wage employee would be entitled to.

FounderBurr 5y ago

That site is cancer. Get more ads I didn’t feel engaged enough!

stevenicr 5y ago

not willing to register to read the article. wishing there was micropayment - send a buck - get the content without registering. Did they get into expenses for the vehicle with the calculation? Taxes? I had some fun doing lyft for a month here and there several times - and they kept cutting the rates they paid drivers. The last few weeks I did it I realized the after expenses and taxes was about $6 / hour. Every uber/lyft driver I've ridden with has told me they have no info about tax time and what's to be expected - and none were saving for it. It's a disaster every year I bet. I've asked around a bit for banking option that would let you set rules for percentages - like each time money is deposited from place X take 28% and put into other savings account Y - but not found any.. I think it's needed. I saw a submarine article recently that said a thing called "lilly" debit card type thing made for freelancers(?) - says it can move money based on percentages - but the signup page the article referenced had no info about that feature so I let it linger in a tab and forgot about it. Whatever the money is with uber/lyft - so many don't understand all the expenses - I try to say it's like getting good money for driving neighbors around - but you don't see that you are basically taking a knife to your brakes and other components, handing over pieces of your car to the riders in exchange for $12 or whatever - and the more you drive the more you are in danger with other cars / etc.. and don't see the actual cost for a long time so you think it's better than what it is. love to know how many people they have had as drivers and how many do it more than 18 months.

fzzzy 5y ago
The "Simple" app used to have a function for automatically saving a percentage of every deposit, but Simple as a company is gone now, destroyed for no good reason by their acquirer.
- noman-land 5y ago
  For the record, OneFinance is still pretty green but they have some interesting features that fill some of the gaps left by Simple's demise.
prepend 5y ago
I think it depends on the car, the mileage deduction rate is 57.5 cents per mile. If I have a Prius, my depreciation isn’t nearly that high so I may not be bad off come tax time. I can deduct not only the logged miles, but miles in between jobs and to/from work sites. If I’m driving 30 miles an hour then I’m deducting $17/hour from auto expenses that will greatly reduce my taxable revenue. Of course, there are expenses to be paid on the vehicle for fuel, insurance and depreciation. But there are vehicles where this is much less than the IRS deduction that is just flat for all vehicles.

radu_floricica 5y ago

Some (most?) people reading the headline will think it's a shame uber is exploiting workers. Me, I'm just taking it as pretty definite proof that people are more than willing to occasionally work below minimum wage. I'm seeing it as a pretty solid indictment on the whole "minimum wage is protecting poor people" idea. People not being carbon copy automatons have actual contexts and preferences. Maybe they value being independent more than a minimum wage. Maybe they do their math and come to the conclusion that averaged over a longer time, it's actually a pretty good wage. Maybe the CEO was a shitty driver in his first day (should we stop him from learning then?). Maybe some are going through a rough spot and want to make rent money, and damn whatever an accountant would say their "hourly wage" is. I'm betting most just get better, even if they occasionally go through a bad day. But steamroll this to fit with "minimum wage", and in absolutely all the contexts above you have unemployed people.

fxtentacle 5y ago
I also strongly believe that people are more than willing to work below minimum wage - it's just that I have a less happy explanation: Otherwise, their food, their car, and their house gets taken away. If becoming homeless was the alternative, I'd also do whatever job I have to. So in my opinion, this mostly just shows us that productivity in general is so high and automation works so well that we honestly don't need a healthy chunk of our fellow citizens. That's why they are forced to compete for even the shittiest jobs. Now the question is, what do we do with them?
- Cipater 5y ago
  that we honestly don't need a healthy chunk of our fellow citizens. So dehumanising the way you talk about these people. We definitely need YOU, right? Maybe I should just log off HN for today.
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    They never said that, you are putting words in their post. They could have the opinion that they are one of those people.

ddtaylor 5y ago

I think we're all very certain that Uber was aware of that fact long before this "experiment" was conducted.

ddtaylor 5y ago

To everyone upset at the website for being trash, I completely agree and understand, but reminder we have Reader Mode in Firefox for reason :D

syspec 5y ago
Reader mode in Safari, it was a must for that site

Proven 5y ago

I don't get it. What's wrong with earning the minimum wage? Why should he make more?

missedthecue 5y ago

"He said he earned $106.71 over five-and-a-half hours, over just over $19. San Francisco’s minimum wage is $16.07." This headline is extremely misleading, if not borderline fake news. I was expecting his earnings to be around $8 an hour or something, but he did $19 an hour on a bicycle, ~20% over minimum wage. The Independent seems to also realize this, because right after that, they feel the need to immediately add that "Uber Eats drivers, part-time contractors who provide their own transportation, food, healthcare, etc, often take home less than that figure, sometimes less than minimum wage." They seem to be less interested in reporting the facts and more interested in pushing a narrative.