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Israel is a state. Not some refugees accepted in another state. The fact that the State of Israel was forced to unwilling Arabs is what causing all the distress

by pokot0 5y ago

Israel is a state. Not some refugees accepted in another state. The fact that the State of Israel was forced to unwilling Arabs is what causing all the distress and what I call an "invasion". Effectively some land that was part of a state has been subtracted to that state and declared to be part of a different state by force. You questioning my facts shows you are a rude person. I shared my opinion and you insult me. Wanna come invade my house and claim it yours maybe?

bpodgursky 5y ago
How do you think every other state in history was formed? You only dislike the sausage here because you can see it being made.
- pokot0 5y ago
  Agreed. Slightly different topic in my opinion but here is how I see it. You can be a brutal savage and you conquer land and just claim it yours. All good. At some point you evolve into a modern civilization and start following the rules of law, basic human rights and those sort of things. That is the moment when you cannot just conquer land by force because it goes against your own values. Israeli was formed by countries whose values would not allow its creation. It was just extremely convenient for them and everyone looked somewhere else.
vogon_laureate 5y ago
Israel became a state by UN mandate, not by "invasion". Palestinians were also offered a state by the same mandate. They (and surrounding Arab states) rejected it and five armies literally invaded. Facts don't belong to anyone. They are just facts. You calling my refugee grandparents fleeing the Holocaust "invaders" is arguably ruder than me calling your fact-free nonsense, er nonsense. Cope.
- pokot0 5y ago
  Friend, you are obviously emotional about this and I understand. But: - "Israel became a state by UN mandate" : I believe that mandate was an invasion. I believe I was clear. That's my opinion. I am happy to discuss it and change my mind if convinced. You insulted me and gave me 0 food for thought. - "Facts don't belong to anyone": You were the one who said "get your facts right". You are incoherent in a matter of 2 messages. That said remember that facts are not easy to find, as it's very clear lately. So, while they don't belong to anyone, for a lot of things we will never have access to them and we have to rely on opinions. - "You calling my refugee grandparents fleeing the Holocaust "invaders"" : I didn't. And ofc this is macro political argument, not a personal matter. I already told you what I consider an invasion. The UN mandate. The Holocaust was a great tragedy and I believe the victims had to be taken care properly. I just think that the way it was done created decades of wars and suffering and have shown how inadequate of a solution that was. I am not gonna answer any more messages though. It's not really helping anyone and I think you are extremely emotional about this. This is not the kind of conversation I was looking forward or what I want to engage in. I wish you all the best! I mean it!

by pokot0 5y ago

bpodgursky 5y ago

How do you think every other state in history was formed? You only dislike the sausage here because you can see it being made.

pokot0 5y ago
Agreed. Slightly different topic in my opinion but here is how I see it. You can be a brutal savage and you conquer land and just claim it yours. All good. At some point you evolve into a modern civilization and start following the rules of law, basic human rights and those sort of things. That is the moment when you cannot just conquer land by force because it goes against your own values. Israeli was formed by countries whose values would not allow its creation. It was just extremely convenient for them and everyone looked somewhere else.

vogon_laureate 5y ago

Israel became a state by UN mandate, not by "invasion". Palestinians were also offered a state by the same mandate. They (and surrounding Arab states) rejected it and five armies literally invaded. Facts don't belong to anyone. They are just facts. You calling my refugee grandparents fleeing the Holocaust "invaders" is arguably ruder than me calling your fact-free nonsense, er nonsense. Cope.

pokot0 5y ago
Friend, you are obviously emotional about this and I understand. But: - "Israel became a state by UN mandate" : I believe that mandate was an invasion. I believe I was clear. That's my opinion. I am happy to discuss it and change my mind if convinced. You insulted me and gave me 0 food for thought. - "Facts don't belong to anyone": You were the one who said "get your facts right". You are incoherent in a matter of 2 messages. That said remember that facts are not easy to find, as it's very clear lately. So, while they don't belong to anyone, for a lot of things we will never have access to them and we have to rely on opinions. - "You calling my refugee grandparents fleeing the Holocaust "invaders"" : I didn't. And ofc this is macro political argument, not a personal matter. I already told you what I consider an invasion. The UN mandate. The Holocaust was a great tragedy and I believe the victims had to be taken care properly. I just think that the way it was done created decades of wars and suffering and have shown how inadequate of a solution that was. I am not gonna answer any more messages though. It's not really helping anyone and I think you are extremely emotional about this. This is not the kind of conversation I was looking forward or what I want to engage in. I wish you all the best! I mean it!