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Cuba actually has 5 vaccine candidates, and 2 of them have greater than 90% effectiveness. A great showing for a small, socialist island nation under decades of
by Despegar 5y ago
Cuba actually has 5 vaccine candidates, and 2 of them have greater than 90% effectiveness. A great showing for a small, socialist island nation under decades of embargo by hostile anti-communist forces.
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Cubas-Soberana-02-COVID-19-Vaccine-To-Reach-95-Efficiency-20210625-0005.html https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Cubas-Soberana-02-COVID-...
- nextstep 5y agoBut also not surprising because despite the decades of restrictions which have limited Cuba’s ability to import medical supplies, they have one of the best medical systems in the world.
- crakenzak 5y ago> they have one of the best medical systems in the world. citation needed
- woodruffw 5y agoI believe the quality and breadth of Cuba's medical system rises to the level of conventional wisdom[1][2]. Edit: I forgot to link statistics for the country itself, not just the doctors they send abroad. They perform admirably against both the U.S. and most European countries[3]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_medical_internationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_medical_internationalism [2]: https://time.com/5467742/cuba-doctors-export-brazil/ https://time.com/5467742/cuba-doctors-export-brazil/ [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Health_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Health_stat...
- belltaco 5y agohttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645168/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645168/
- pessimizer 5y agoThe citation is the first result of any search related to Cuba and medicine on any search engine.
- zeusly 5y agoHere's a ranking from the WHO: https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf 39 out of 191, 2 places behind the US.
- SettembreNero 5y agoWhile being free of charge
- w0de0 5y agoIt well-known that Cuba has an impressive healthcare system and does not particularly need to be cited unless specific claims are made. Cuba is famous, for instance, for exporting doctors to other nations. In any case, here is a short paper showing Cuba's healthcare outcomes are comparable to Canada and US: https://globalhealth.washington.edu/sites/default/files/50%20yrs%20US%20Embargo%20Cuba%20Health%20Outcomes.pdf https://globalhealth.washington.edu/sites/default/files/50%2...
- sdfin 5y agoCuban doctors' don't seem to be very happy with that, according to the NYT and BBC: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/americas/brazil-cuban-doctors-revolt.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/americas/brazil-cub... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48214513 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48214513
- LightG 5y agoWhile important to you and me, the attitude of the doctors is not in question here, just the level of Cuba's medical expertise.
- runarberg 5y agoThe same applies for Iceland. Nurses keep striking, doctors call for more funding, health care experts keep complaining about lack of facilities. Yet Iceland has one of the best health care system in the world. Be it a capitalist country like Iceland or a socialist like Cuba, with enough funding and an educated workforce you can run a pretty successful healthcare system, despite the fact that it could be better. And perhaps that is precisely why the workers in a successful healthcare system complain. They are educated enough to know how it could be improved even further.
- sdfin 5y agoYour answer is not related to the content of the articles.
- chizhik-pyzhik 5y agoCuba has a life expectancy of 78.8, just under the United States' 79.1. Their infant mortality rate 5.1 deaths per 1000 births, slightly better than 6.5 in the US. Cuba also has the highest rate of physicians per citizen in all of latin america, and has a huge medical diplomacy progam, sending doctors all over the world. It's a pretty controversial topic, though- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Contrasting_views_on_Cuba's_health_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Contrasting...
- waitHowsThat 5y agoJust a reminder that the Physician Cartel in the United States is downright dangerous. I wonder if a lawyer could do a class action lawsuit against the AMA members. Drug addictions and unaffordable healthcare is some sort of manslaughter.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- xeromal 5y agoIt's widely known. No citation needed.
- ruined 5y agohttps://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/5/08-030508/en/ https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/5/08-030508/en/ structurally, it's a good target model. materially, capitalist embargoes have prevented import of drugs and equipment that isn't already manufactured locally. https://theconversation.com/is-the-cuban-healthcare-system-really-as-great-as-people-claim-69526 https://theconversation.com/is-the-cuban-healthcare-system-r... they also provide medical education for free, even to foreign citizens. notably, che guevara was a doctor before he was a soldier, and this probably informed the cuban communist party's healthcare policy.
- tomjakubowski 5y agoWorld Bank puts Cuba's public health statistics largely on par with the United States, at about one-tenth the per-capita cost. Of course, compared to other developed countries, the USA hardly delivers great healthcare to its population. So Cuba might not be a top country for healthcare in the world, but what they do have is impressive given the circumstances.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago> World Bank puts Cuba's public health statistics largely on par with the United States, at about one-tenth the per-capita cost. The average Cuban makes in the neighborhood of $30 a month. Cuban doctors make about $70 a month. US doctors make something around $30,000 a month. As it turns out, it is much easier to have a cheap medical system when you pay basically nothing for labor. However, this is a feature of a system which is otherwise rather unenviable.
- morelisp 5y agoThe unenviable part is the $30-70 range, not the 2x income spread.
- fennecfoxen 5y agoIndeed. We would surely be living in fantastical, glorious times if the US median income were to rise to ~$180,000. (In real figures, of course, not just hyperinflation.) I believe this would require us to triple GNP, if not more. I am almost entirely in favor of this proposal, except that it would probably be preferable in such a case to admit immigrants from less prosperous parts of the world who would go on to earn substantially less than that. This would bring the overall income figure down, but would still be a major win for the world's overall prosperity.
- mping 5y agoYou imply that the bulk of the costs are labour costs, but medical invoices in the US suggest otherwise.
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- saiya-jin 5y agoHN at its best... this is known for a very long time. I don't know how much GDP budget they put into medical system, or what other miracle they managed to perform long term, but its true. Of course its relative - is it better than Switzerland? Of course not, but comparing to peers in 3rd world, they are absolutely stellar. Cheap/free advanced medicine and care, tons of foreign missions around the world. I recall from cold war, Cuban medical scientists and doctors were regarded as top notch in eastern bloc and many exchange missions were done to get some of that to other parts of the world. From Cuban perspective, cold war didn't end with fall of USSR
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- fennecfoxen 5y agoCuba legitimately has one of the best medical education systems in the world. It's one of the regime's successes. On the other hand, many of these doctors are sent to work in Cuba's allies, where most of their pay goes to the Cuban government. At home, their medical system goes through some pretty rough patches from time to time, and you have people who need to turn to the black market to buy the iodine necessary for disinfection of their own surgeries.
- rubatuga 5y agoI heard it's mid-tier, but nowhere near "the best". For example, developing countries would appreciate it if Cuban doctors came to volunteer, but they aren't at the standard of US doctors.
- dang 5y agoPlease don't post flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- baybal2 5y agoMaybe it is not that hard to run a basic medical system if some leadership, administrative proves, and money put together?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sudosysgen 5y agoDo you think it's hard to run it to better outcomes than the US?
- baybal2 5y agoNo, one have to try really hard to mess it up as bad as it is in US
- sudosysgen 5y agoAs far as cost efficiency, this is certainly true. That said, I come from a country that is economically in a very similar situation to Cuba, and their healtcare system is much superior.
- alamortsubite 5y agoLast week an Argentinian news(/infotainment) program covered a Cuban TV PSA for a vaccine they'll soon be administering to kids. Besides the nationalistic bent (which I'm personally OK with, given the circumstances), one of the tidbits I found interesting is they mention it requires three jabs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqUq6kO8DyA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqUq6kO8DyA
- ncann 5y agoEvery year for the last 30 years or so the UN General Assembly calls for US to end Cuba embargo. Every single year the US along with Israel vote against it, being the only 2 out of nearly 200 or so countries.
- __blockcipher__ 5y agoIf there were any justice in the world we'd be embargoing Israel and not Cuba :/ Or better yet embargo nobody. But as long as Israel and Saudi Arabia (together with the US empire, of course) keep maintaining the blockade in Yemen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Yemen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Yemen | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian-led_intervention_in_Yemen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian-led_intervention...), the least we could do is return the "favor" by embargoing Israel. Per Wikipedia (I didn't validate this number at all), the 2018 famine in Yemen led to the deaths of 85,000 children (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93...) (I'm aware that the above will never happen, for the same reason we're involved in all these conflicts in the first place. But a man can dream, right?)
- bpodgursky 5y agoYou know there are wildly worse regimes than Israel right? Why Israel, and not any of the oppressive sub-Saharan African governments? Why not Myanmar? Why not China, embarking on a literal genocide? I think the thing to learn from the Cuba experience is that embargos are usually ineffective mechanisms for enacting regime change, because it just reinforces the "us vs them" mindset. If there truly was a concerted international embargo of Israel, Netanyahu would be in power another 30 years.
- pokot0 5y agoI think people focus on Israel b/c it is the result of an invasion and expulsion of natives. Just like the US and all America.... People tend to think that internal matters of a country should not be addressed too much (like many of the countries you mentioned). It's hard to believe you dont understand such a simple concept and it's hard for me to not consider that part of your comment pure rethoric. I agree on your comment on the ineffectiveness of embargos. Unfortunately the solution to the Israel problem is to not create Israel in the first place. At this point, the damage is done. That's why governments (looking at you US) should think more before deploying military (vietnam, iraq, afghanistan, .... )
- 88840-8855 5y agoedit: after being bombarded with negative votes I decided to remove the post that was highlighting the human rights situation in Cuba
- morelisp 5y ago> - Guantanamo torture camp is located there and tolerated You're honestly trying to blame Cuba for this one?
- kmonsen 5y agoSeriously, or all the things to blame Cuba for that is not one of them unless I’m misunderstand something. That’s basically a US military base they refuse to hand back.
- coredog64 5y agoGuantanamo is a little different: That's Cuban territory that the US refuses to return. Any human rights violations that happen there are on the US. But otherwise, yes, Cuba is a human rights disaster in it's own right.
- liberalbias998 5y agoIt is worth noting as well; that other countries in the world have socialised medicine alongside freedom of speech and a free democratic government.
- 88840-8855 5y agoSelf-censor after negative votes
- marcodiego 5y agoThe expression "socialised medicine" sounds way better when you call it public health system.
- deleted 5y ago
- seaorg 5y agoPretty good for a brutal police state?
- aviraldg 5y agoYeah, I was surprised USA was able to come up with a COVID vaccine too, given the recent reports of government corruption, armed insurrection and police brutality.
- seaorg 5y agoIf you think our police are brutal, I would love to see you hold a political rally in Cuba. You are so precious. Might want to reflect on that nasty little caste system you have benefitted from before throwing stones.
- dang 5y agoPlease do not take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. It's exactly the opposite of what this site is supposed to be for. Crossing into personal attack is particularly not ok.
- dang 5y agoPlease do not take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. It's exactly the opposite of what this site is supposed to be for.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- axiosgunnar 5y ago> anti-communist This is a positive thing
- redis_mlc 5y agoAgreed. It's disgusting how HN has become communist.
- dang 5y agoTaking this thread straight into ideological flamewar hell was not a good call. Please don't do that to HN. Of course the real damage is caused more by the upvoters, not the original comment, but you've started it by tossing egregious flamebait in the first place. I will mark this off-topic now (which downweights it on the page) and we'll see how good or bad the other comments are, but at the time I'm typing this, it doesn't matter how good or bad the other comments are, or whether this thread even has any actual comments about Cuban vaccines, because the flamewar you started has filled it with low-rent internet flaming about (god help us) communism, Israel, and who knows what else. Such flamewars have nothing to do with the mandate of this site. They convince no one of anything, except how right they are and how aggrieved they are and therefore how justified they are in doing whatever they want to the other side. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20ideolog%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html --- Edit: I'm getting the feeling that I may have left some people with the impression that I lack sympathy for Cuba or admiration for the achievements of Cuban researchers. Not at all. I think this is a great topic for HN to discuss. In order to be able to discuss it, we need to avoid flamewar and to avoid flamewar we need to avoid flamebait. That's all I mean, and I see that I put it in an excessively flamey way myself. Sorry! If you don't see how the GP comment is flamebait, that might be because you're not aware of how large and geographically/politically/ideologically distributed this forum is. What to some readers reads as a bland factual statement is guaranteed to land with others as an outright provocation. That is obvious to me because I deal with these divisions in this forum every day. But I can see how it might not be obvious to others, and that's no doubt why my comment came across as excessive. Perhaps this was conditioned by spending the bulk of yesterday dealing with political flamewars on HN.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoIt's not socialist in the European sense though, it's an authoritarian controlled bureaucracy.