3 ms·

The Libera.Chat split 1 month later, summed up in one graph

47 points by marcodiego 5y ago

loloquwowndueo 5y ago
“Summed up in one graph” and the linked page shows 3 graphs :) What they show though are 3 views of the same event: droves of users switching from freenode to libera.
jph 5y ago
Great for Libera. The folks stood up for their beliefs, advocated for users, and did the work to make it happen. Kudos and thank you.
sam_goody 5y ago
Sometimes the winners are not obvious. The English fought the the Germans in WWII, and the U.S.A won (superseded UK as the world power). LibreChat fought Freenode in IRC, and Gitter and Matrix won.
- the_biot 5y ago
  Do you have any numbers to back up that claim?
susam 5y ago
The sharp drop in Freenode usage in mid June was Freenode's own doing. The sharp drop occurred due to Freenode wiping out its database and starting over from scratch again on 15 Jun 2021. See https://old.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/o01tmv https://old.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/o01tmv for more details. What that really meant was that decades old nicks and channels were completely wiped out! For example, my own 15 year nick was gone. A 150 member channel I used to operate for 14 years was also gone. All the nicks and other channels I was familiar with were also gone. I did not bother registeringing my nick and channel there again! It was not worth it. I had moved on to Libera Chat already and there was nothing left on Freenode to care about it anymore. If Freenode had not wiped out its database on 15 Jun 2021, many nicks and channels would still be present on Freenode even if they were dormant and we would have still been seeing a gradual decline in its usage instead of a sharp drop like we see in the graphs here.
- jcranmer 5y ago
  > The sharp drop occurred due to Freenode wiping out its database and starting over from scratch again on 15 Jun 2021. The graphs aren't measuring the number of registered users and channels, it's the number of current users and channels. Freenode did reboot all of its servers into a new network at the same time, though, so it still resulted in the same effect.
  - susam 5y ago
    I am aware. Once I found that my registered nicks and channels are gone, I disconnected from the network, removed Freenode's config from my bouncer and never looked back at Freenode again. Many other users did the same thing. Further, all the Matrix bridges to the now defunct channels got broken as well after the database was wiped out. That led to the loss of thousands of users who connect to Freenode via the Matrix bridge.
reilly3000 5y ago
I wonder how many of those connections represent humans and how many are bots. I have to assume that many scripts are still configured to use freenode.
marcodiego 5y ago
And that, kids, is the reason why open standards, protocols and decentralization are so important.
- toolz 5y ago
  I don't think this graph shows that at all. Centralized services dominate when it comes to users/servers or any concept of channels. It likely does show that IRC users care deeply about decentralization and as much as I want decentralization to be important to everyone, it just isn't yet. I'm hopeful we're moving in the right direction though, I think every day we see a failure in centralization is a day people become more open to decentralized solutions.
- Permit 5y ago
  How do these graphs demonstrate this? I can imagine similar graphs for "Discord vs Slack" (or even individual servers within Discord). I agree with your premise that open standards, protocols and decentralization are important, but I don't really see how any of that relates to what happened here. If anything, this latest drama has weakened my view of IRC and the surrounding community.
  - marcodiego 5y ago
    These graphs would be simply impossible with proprietary single implementation protocols. Consider previous networks like msn, aim, the old skype... users could switch to other services, but they wouldn't be able to keep the same tools, clients or use the very same protocol.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
gogopuppygogo 5y ago
I think 15 years ago you could get a better education on irc than in a classroom for computer science material. The top talent in open source lived on there. Times have changed.
- emilsedgh 5y ago
  I still find IRC to be an amazing resource. For example, if you have a Postgres question the IRC channel for postrges is unbelievable.
- imtringued 5y ago
  I still remember those days but they were 7 years ago.
dlsa 5y ago
Did anyone else sum up the various lines and notice the overall downward trend across all networks? Freenode must have had a LOT of accounts which did NOT migrate to libre chat or anywhere IRC. They disappeared elsewhere. Likely discord, slack etc etc.
- eitland 5y ago
  ... and hopefully some to Matrix
- duskwuff 5y ago
  Some of them probably just disappeared altogether. All of the big IRC networks have a lot of users who just stay connected continuously without participating. The big services shakeup on Freenode was probably the impetus a lot of those users needed to shut their client off permanently.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

47 points by marcodiego 5y ago

“Summed up in one graph” and the linked page shows 3 graphs :) What they show though are 3 views of the same event: droves of users switching from freenode to libera.

jph 5y ago

Great for Libera. The folks stood up for their beliefs, advocated for users, and did the work to make it happen. Kudos and thank you.

sam_goody 5y ago

Sometimes the winners are not obvious. The English fought the the Germans in WWII, and the U.S.A won (superseded UK as the world power). LibreChat fought Freenode in IRC, and Gitter and Matrix won.

the_biot 5y ago
Do you have any numbers to back up that claim?

susam 5y ago

The sharp drop in Freenode usage in mid June was Freenode's own doing. The sharp drop occurred due to Freenode wiping out its database and starting over from scratch again on 15 Jun 2021. See https://old.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/o01tmv https://old.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/o01tmv for more details. What that really meant was that decades old nicks and channels were completely wiped out! For example, my own 15 year nick was gone. A 150 member channel I used to operate for 14 years was also gone. All the nicks and other channels I was familiar with were also gone. I did not bother registeringing my nick and channel there again! It was not worth it. I had moved on to Libera Chat already and there was nothing left on Freenode to care about it anymore. If Freenode had not wiped out its database on 15 Jun 2021, many nicks and channels would still be present on Freenode even if they were dormant and we would have still been seeing a gradual decline in its usage instead of a sharp drop like we see in the graphs here.

jcranmer 5y ago
> The sharp drop occurred due to Freenode wiping out its database and starting over from scratch again on 15 Jun 2021. The graphs aren't measuring the number of registered users and channels, it's the number of current users and channels. Freenode did reboot all of its servers into a new network at the same time, though, so it still resulted in the same effect.
- susam 5y ago
  I am aware. Once I found that my registered nicks and channels are gone, I disconnected from the network, removed Freenode's config from my bouncer and never looked back at Freenode again. Many other users did the same thing. Further, all the Matrix bridges to the now defunct channels got broken as well after the database was wiped out. That led to the loss of thousands of users who connect to Freenode via the Matrix bridge.

reilly3000 5y ago

I wonder how many of those connections represent humans and how many are bots. I have to assume that many scripts are still configured to use freenode.

marcodiego 5y ago

And that, kids, is the reason why open standards, protocols and decentralization are so important.

toolz 5y ago
I don't think this graph shows that at all. Centralized services dominate when it comes to users/servers or any concept of channels. It likely does show that IRC users care deeply about decentralization and as much as I want decentralization to be important to everyone, it just isn't yet. I'm hopeful we're moving in the right direction though, I think every day we see a failure in centralization is a day people become more open to decentralized solutions.
Permit 5y ago
How do these graphs demonstrate this? I can imagine similar graphs for "Discord vs Slack" (or even individual servers within Discord). I agree with your premise that open standards, protocols and decentralization are important, but I don't really see how any of that relates to what happened here. If anything, this latest drama has weakened my view of IRC and the surrounding community.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  These graphs would be simply impossible with proprietary single implementation protocols. Consider previous networks like msn, aim, the old skype... users could switch to other services, but they wouldn't be able to keep the same tools, clients or use the very same protocol.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

gogopuppygogo 5y ago

I think 15 years ago you could get a better education on irc than in a classroom for computer science material. The top talent in open source lived on there. Times have changed.

emilsedgh 5y ago
I still find IRC to be an amazing resource. For example, if you have a Postgres question the IRC channel for postrges is unbelievable.
imtringued 5y ago
I still remember those days but they were 7 years ago.

dlsa 5y ago

Did anyone else sum up the various lines and notice the overall downward trend across all networks? Freenode must have had a LOT of accounts which did NOT migrate to libre chat or anywhere IRC. They disappeared elsewhere. Likely discord, slack etc etc.

eitland 5y ago
... and hopefully some to Matrix
duskwuff 5y ago
Some of them probably just disappeared altogether. All of the big IRC networks have a lot of users who just stay connected continuously without participating. The big services shakeup on Freenode was probably the impetus a lot of those users needed to shut their client off permanently.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]