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Bitcoin isn't that new thing any more, to me it looks like fiat holders have seen too many bitcoin holders gain significant value. Yes, there are also those tha

Bitcoin isn't that new thing any more, to me it looks like fiat holders have seen too many bitcoin holders gain significant value. Yes, there are also those that lose their BTC for whatever reason but to me it seems to be quite a minority compared to those who actually have made good dough just holding BTC. To the tune of having retired on their stash.

grey-area 5y ago
If you cashed out to fiat and retired on your stash in this last bubble you’re doing great, though that is at the expense of millions of retail bag holders who bought your cryptocurrency hoping they’d get rich too. If you didn’t cash out already and are taking your coins offline etc, you’re the bag holder.
- reidjs 5y ago
  This assumes the USD stays dominant indefinitely, right?
  - WalterSear 5y ago
    It assumes that the fraudulent stablecoin created by Binance, and involved in the vast majority of trades, (more 70%, a few days ago) unwinds. https://crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com/the-bit-short-inside-cryptos-doomsday-machine-f8dcf78a64d3 https://crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com/the-bit-short-insid... https://bitfinexed.medium.com/tether-is-setting-a-new-standard-for-transparency-that-is-untethered-from-facts-deec42c473bb https://bitfinexed.medium.com/tether-is-setting-a-new-standa... USDC (the second largest stablecoin), isn't appreciably better.
    - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
      Tether is associated with the Bitfinex exchange, not Binance. Binance has its own stablecoin: BUSD USDC is associated with Coinbase, the exchange that recently went public, so I'd assume it's far more trustworthy than Tether.
      - WalterSear 5y ago
        USDC is avoiding audits too.
      - grey-area 5y ago
        There are also deep and to my mind suspicious links between the two, this fraud is a shared endeavour. https://cointelegraph.com/news/a-by-the-minute-look-at-tether-s-1-billion-swap-from-bitfinex-to-binance https://cointelegraph.com/news/a-by-the-minute-look-at-tethe...
      - WalterSear 5y ago
        This Binance? https://wallet.tether.to/richlist https://wallet.tether.to/richlist
        BLKNSLVR 5y ago
        Binance has holdings in all sorts of cryptocurrencies that it has no involvement in the creation or minting of. As a cryptocurrency exchange, Binance must hold Tether to operate. As the most popular cryptocurrency exchange on the planet, they're likely to be on the larger end of Tether (and various other cryptocurrencies) holdings. I'm not defending Binance here, I think there's fair potential that they're doing shady stuff, but they're not responsible, in any way, for the minting of billions of dollars of Tether, or involved in any of the dodgy accounting around Tether's backing. Same goes for Huobi, who are second on that list. They're an exchange. Holding Tether is an essential part of being in that business.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - nl 5y ago
    No really. If you traded your BTC for some non USD currency the same point remains.
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    I don't understand the implications of this assumption. Are you assuming that if the USD wasn't dominant then BTC would be better to hold? BTC is functionally a security. Under any duress of the USD I'd expect it to perform no different than AMZN stock.
  - grey-area 5y ago
    Nobody is actually using Bitcoin to pay for things, because it is a terrible currency due to fundamental design flaws. At this point the narrative of Bitcoin the world currency is dead, it’s now a get rich quick scheme.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  A bag thats value getting heavier every year while the bank balance is losing value every year. Are not fiat holders the true bag holders? When you accept that everything is relative value, the dollar is not absolute (far from it!), holding fiat for long times seems foolish.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > holding fiat for long times seems foolish. Yeah, sure, but everyone except cranks who works in fiat openly acknowledges that. Fiat (well, major fiat currencies like the dollar) are good for low-volatility liquidity. For long-term accumulation of value, you invest in productive assets, which are both riskier over the long term and higher volatility over the short term, but have higher average long-term yields. And, ideally, you diversify investments in ways that maximize independence of at least long-term variation, to mitigate risk and get closer to consistent long-term average results. Crypto“currency” that isn’t fiat-pegged tends to be worse than major fiat at the things people who prefer fiat think fiat is for, while (in the best cases) being a very high-volatility speculative asset with very good average performance over its history to date (which isn’t very long term). It’s thus not a great replacement for fiat, but potentially a bice addition to the stable of available investments.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Replacement, maybe, no, I don’t know. It radically changes things back about 200y to a pseudogold standard but universally harder (energy usage over physical gold supply). I know I spend fiat over harder money. (I don’t spend bitcoin, I save in it). I think you should not ignore the forest for the trees here. A small purchase today held for another 5-10y could prove quite lucrative for you.
  - lasc4r 5y ago
    I think we all know that stuffing your cash under a mattress is a bad idea.
  - nl 5y ago
    If you are concerned about inflation, then buy a basket of high liquidity stocks.
pjc50 5y ago
Some have retired. Others have invested their retirement savings, enabling the first group to retire.
hurril 5y ago
Fiat holder is a ridiculous term in a false dichotomy. A holding of BTC is a security holding just as holding stocks (despite the fact that they are not legally referred to as such.) Nobody chooses between holding dollars or holding BTC. Nobody. The fact that this parent has a number of children that don't seem to pick up on this is problematic to say the least.
- IgorPartola 5y ago
  What do you mean? Of course people choose to hold crypto or put their money in the bank or buy a stock market index fund or spend it on something.
  - ivalm 5y ago
    You hold fiat money to exchange for goods and services. You buy securities (or sometimes physical assets) to eventually get more fiat money to then exchange for goods and services. Currently you buy BTC with fiat to later exchange BTC back into fiat and still use fiat to exchange for goods and services. This is why BTC is more like a security than a currency.
  - hurril 5y ago
    Holding stock in a company (for instance via en index fund) is not a fiat holding. The fact that it is commonly priced in terms of fiat currency is not any different that the fact that BTC is too. Neither of them have to be. All exchanges take place in pairs; one holding is exchanged for another. Buying BTC with dollars is (USD, BTC); buying Microsoft is (MSFT, USD); buying EUR with dollars is (EUR, USD). Nothing prevents you from pricing Microsoft stock in BTC or BTC in EUR or Etherium. The holding as such, however, is only a fiat holding when it is in fact either a (wad of) cash equivalents and/ or a bank balance. There isn't a person on earth for which there is only two types of relevant holdings, in either USD or BTC. A person that (seriously) considers acquiring a crypto holding, such as BTC, is most likely choosing between other crypto currencies, gold or silver, primarily. Even more likely, they're merely FOMO-speculating as a complement to plain stock holdings. The fact that a number of you don't seem to understand this should call your competency into question.
faeriechangling 5y ago
>Fiat holder Am I supposed to believe crypto nerds aren't holding any fiat?
- xvector 5y ago
  It's kind of scary. You go to Reddit and it's full of people dumping their life savings into crypto, genuinely believing it'll bail them out. For some reason people genuinely seem to believe that crypto will only go up, when the reality is that we have no clue. When every average Joe thinks crypto will make them rich, it's time to dump your bags.
  - fakedang 5y ago
    I dumped my BTC (2011ish early adopter) once my mom began to talk about a Bitcoin investor who played the crypto markets and made so much money at my age. My mom does not know how to format a Word file. I just hope my parents and relatives aren't secretly stashing away their life long savings in crypto because of all the hullabaloo.
    - oraphalous 5y ago
      This isn't any more sound as an investment strategy than a dude is hip because they listened to band X before it was cool.
      - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
        You don't own a stake in band x https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/herdinstinct.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/herdinstinct.asp
    - vishnugupta 5y ago
      > once my mom began to talk about a Bitcoin investor There’s an ad running on Indian TV literally of this script..Two moms are talking, while one brags about her son being in USA, buying cars etc the other’s son is seemingly trading crypto on a mobile app. The other mom then retorts “all that is fine, but have you invested in crypto?”. It’s crazy, they are drumming up FOMO. If you are curious and know Hindi: https://youtu.be/KKItA9fDCk4 https://youtu.be/KKItA9fDCk4

grey-area 5y ago

If you cashed out to fiat and retired on your stash in this last bubble you’re doing great, though that is at the expense of millions of retail bag holders who bought your cryptocurrency hoping they’d get rich too. If you didn’t cash out already and are taking your coins offline etc, you’re the bag holder.

reidjs 5y ago
This assumes the USD stays dominant indefinitely, right?
- WalterSear 5y ago
  It assumes that the fraudulent stablecoin created by Binance, and involved in the vast majority of trades, (more 70%, a few days ago) unwinds. https://crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com/the-bit-short-inside-cryptos-doomsday-machine-f8dcf78a64d3 https://crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com/the-bit-short-insid... https://bitfinexed.medium.com/tether-is-setting-a-new-standard-for-transparency-that-is-untethered-from-facts-deec42c473bb https://bitfinexed.medium.com/tether-is-setting-a-new-standa... USDC (the second largest stablecoin), isn't appreciably better.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    Tether is associated with the Bitfinex exchange, not Binance. Binance has its own stablecoin: BUSD USDC is associated with Coinbase, the exchange that recently went public, so I'd assume it's far more trustworthy than Tether.
    - WalterSear 5y ago
      USDC is avoiding audits too.
    - grey-area 5y ago
      There are also deep and to my mind suspicious links between the two, this fraud is a shared endeavour. https://cointelegraph.com/news/a-by-the-minute-look-at-tether-s-1-billion-swap-from-bitfinex-to-binance https://cointelegraph.com/news/a-by-the-minute-look-at-tethe...
    - WalterSear 5y ago
      This Binance? https://wallet.tether.to/richlist https://wallet.tether.to/richlist
      - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
        Binance has holdings in all sorts of cryptocurrencies that it has no involvement in the creation or minting of. As a cryptocurrency exchange, Binance must hold Tether to operate. As the most popular cryptocurrency exchange on the planet, they're likely to be on the larger end of Tether (and various other cryptocurrencies) holdings. I'm not defending Binance here, I think there's fair potential that they're doing shady stuff, but they're not responsible, in any way, for the minting of billions of dollars of Tether, or involved in any of the dodgy accounting around Tether's backing. Same goes for Huobi, who are second on that list. They're an exchange. Holding Tether is an essential part of being in that business.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- nl 5y ago
  No really. If you traded your BTC for some non USD currency the same point remains.
- nemothekid 5y ago
  I don't understand the implications of this assumption. Are you assuming that if the USD wasn't dominant then BTC would be better to hold? BTC is functionally a security. Under any duress of the USD I'd expect it to perform no different than AMZN stock.
- grey-area 5y ago
  Nobody is actually using Bitcoin to pay for things, because it is a terrible currency due to fundamental design flaws. At this point the narrative of Bitcoin the world currency is dead, it’s now a get rich quick scheme.
randomhodler84 5y ago
A bag thats value getting heavier every year while the bank balance is losing value every year. Are not fiat holders the true bag holders? When you accept that everything is relative value, the dollar is not absolute (far from it!), holding fiat for long times seems foolish.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > holding fiat for long times seems foolish. Yeah, sure, but everyone except cranks who works in fiat openly acknowledges that. Fiat (well, major fiat currencies like the dollar) are good for low-volatility liquidity. For long-term accumulation of value, you invest in productive assets, which are both riskier over the long term and higher volatility over the short term, but have higher average long-term yields. And, ideally, you diversify investments in ways that maximize independence of at least long-term variation, to mitigate risk and get closer to consistent long-term average results. Crypto“currency” that isn’t fiat-pegged tends to be worse than major fiat at the things people who prefer fiat think fiat is for, while (in the best cases) being a very high-volatility speculative asset with very good average performance over its history to date (which isn’t very long term). It’s thus not a great replacement for fiat, but potentially a bice addition to the stable of available investments.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    Replacement, maybe, no, I don’t know. It radically changes things back about 200y to a pseudogold standard but universally harder (energy usage over physical gold supply). I know I spend fiat over harder money. (I don’t spend bitcoin, I save in it). I think you should not ignore the forest for the trees here. A small purchase today held for another 5-10y could prove quite lucrative for you.
- lasc4r 5y ago
  I think we all know that stuffing your cash under a mattress is a bad idea.
- nl 5y ago
  If you are concerned about inflation, then buy a basket of high liquidity stocks.

pjc50 5y ago

Some have retired. Others have invested their retirement savings, enabling the first group to retire.

hurril 5y ago

Fiat holder is a ridiculous term in a false dichotomy. A holding of BTC is a security holding just as holding stocks (despite the fact that they are not legally referred to as such.) Nobody chooses between holding dollars or holding BTC. Nobody. The fact that this parent has a number of children that don't seem to pick up on this is problematic to say the least.

IgorPartola 5y ago
What do you mean? Of course people choose to hold crypto or put their money in the bank or buy a stock market index fund or spend it on something.
- ivalm 5y ago
  You hold fiat money to exchange for goods and services. You buy securities (or sometimes physical assets) to eventually get more fiat money to then exchange for goods and services. Currently you buy BTC with fiat to later exchange BTC back into fiat and still use fiat to exchange for goods and services. This is why BTC is more like a security than a currency.
- hurril 5y ago
  Holding stock in a company (for instance via en index fund) is not a fiat holding. The fact that it is commonly priced in terms of fiat currency is not any different that the fact that BTC is too. Neither of them have to be. All exchanges take place in pairs; one holding is exchanged for another. Buying BTC with dollars is (USD, BTC); buying Microsoft is (MSFT, USD); buying EUR with dollars is (EUR, USD). Nothing prevents you from pricing Microsoft stock in BTC or BTC in EUR or Etherium. The holding as such, however, is only a fiat holding when it is in fact either a (wad of) cash equivalents and/ or a bank balance. There isn't a person on earth for which there is only two types of relevant holdings, in either USD or BTC. A person that (seriously) considers acquiring a crypto holding, such as BTC, is most likely choosing between other crypto currencies, gold or silver, primarily. Even more likely, they're merely FOMO-speculating as a complement to plain stock holdings. The fact that a number of you don't seem to understand this should call your competency into question.

faeriechangling 5y ago

>Fiat holder Am I supposed to believe crypto nerds aren't holding any fiat?

xvector 5y ago
It's kind of scary. You go to Reddit and it's full of people dumping their life savings into crypto, genuinely believing it'll bail them out. For some reason people genuinely seem to believe that crypto will only go up, when the reality is that we have no clue. When every average Joe thinks crypto will make them rich, it's time to dump your bags.
- fakedang 5y ago
  I dumped my BTC (2011ish early adopter) once my mom began to talk about a Bitcoin investor who played the crypto markets and made so much money at my age. My mom does not know how to format a Word file. I just hope my parents and relatives aren't secretly stashing away their life long savings in crypto because of all the hullabaloo.
  - oraphalous 5y ago
    This isn't any more sound as an investment strategy than a dude is hip because they listened to band X before it was cool.
    - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
      You don't own a stake in band x https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/herdinstinct.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/herdinstinct.asp
  - vishnugupta 5y ago
    > once my mom began to talk about a Bitcoin investor There’s an ad running on Indian TV literally of this script..Two moms are talking, while one brags about her son being in USA, buying cars etc the other’s son is seemingly trading crypto on a mobile app. The other mom then retorts “all that is fine, but have you invested in crypto?”. It’s crazy, they are drumming up FOMO. If you are curious and know Hindi: https://youtu.be/KKItA9fDCk4 https://youtu.be/KKItA9fDCk4